The Suicide Squad - unnecessary white male director gets second chance

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But man fuck Snyder for trying to make Lex into a Joker wannabe that went into religious rants
They always pass up obvious choices for Lex for comedic ones.

I'm confused as to why this is even a matchup. Gene is a swampland realtor, who wants to kill Superman for stomping on that. Jesse pees in a jar to assert dominance. We need to address that this character isn't remarkable in any way.
 
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They always pass up obvious choices for Lex for comedic ones.

I'm confused as to why this is even a matchup. Gene's a real estate mogul who wants to kill Superman for stomping on that. Jesse pees in a jar to assert dominance. We need to address that this character isn't remarkable in any way.
Lex Luthor worked in the animated series since he was a corrupt CEO who had a lot of good publicity which worked well for him to make him a threat since Superman couldn't touch him without making himself look bad.
 
Lex Luthor worked in the animated series
That's the thing. I've seen a ton of Superman media, and Luthor works best on the small screen.

Rosenbaum is #1. John Shea was Spacey done right. Even Supergirl's version is engaging but missing the laugh tracks whenever Alan finishes talking
 
That's the thing. I've seen a ton of Superman media, and Luthor works best on the small screen.

Rosenbaum is #1. John Shea was Spacey done right. Even Supergirl's version is engaging but missing the laugh tracks whenever Alan finishes talking
Like he could work on the big screen, it's just that modern DC can't do Superman and his characters well.

Whoever thought of putting tattoos on Jared Leto's Joker should have been banned from Hollywood. Some of the dumbest decision-making I've ever seen in film.
Same with making the makeup on Leto look similar to a child
 
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Is Ethan Suplee available to star?
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Dude is fucking RIPPED nowadays

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Like he could work on the big screen, it's just that modern DC can't do Superman and his characters well.
I have to blame Watchmen's deconstructive take for why they can't handle Superman these days, especially with Zack Synder. Synder's DC movies are him trying to make sequels to Watchmen, which is why Superman keeps acting like Doc Manhattan in them and why Batman is obsessively violent. Except, and no studio executive seems to realize this, Supes is not a cynical, uncaring god-man nor is Bats that hateful towards most criminals.* While Synder is a 45 year-old teenager about it, that cynical disbelief towards the idea that a person can be naturally moral is a common belief in most people. This belief actually breaks Supes as a character because he's an aspirational hero contrasted to a cynical city.

*When Batman is violent enough to intentionally shoot people like in BvS, that's a sign of Flashpoint Paradox and the underlying assumption of that is we're watching a mirror universe, not the canonical one.
 
I have to blame Watchmen's deconstructive take for why they can't handle Superman these days, especially with Zack Synder. Synder's DC movies are him trying to make sequels to Watchmen, which is why Superman keeps acting like Doc Manhattan in them and why Batman is obsessively violent. Except, and no studio executive seems to realize this, Supes is not a cynical, uncaring god-man nor is Bats that hateful towards most criminals.* While Synder is a 45 year-old teenager about it, that cynical disbelief towards the idea that a person can be naturally moral is a common belief in most people. This belief actually breaks Supes as a character because he's an aspirational hero contrasted to a cynical city.

*When Batman is violent enough to intentionally shoot people like in BvS, that's a sign of Flashpoint Paradox and the underlying assumption of that is we're watching a mirror universe, not the canonical one.
It was very weird seeing Snyder say that he wanted to make a film about what happened if Superman was in the real world, when he had previously made a film that addressed that.
 
This belief actually breaks Supes as a character because he's an aspirational hero contrasted to a cynical city.
Lois is BPD thinspo queen. Clark's innocence is the most endearing thing about him.

When you take that away, Lois isn't needed in this new equation. Bruce and Clark have more frisson, and that's not an accident.
 
It was very weird seeing Snyder say that he wanted to make a film about what happened if Superman was in the real world, when he had previously made a film that addressed that.
Well, the Watchmen movie was still Moore's work (despite his denial). Zack Synder just stuck his editing into it. MoS and on is mostly Synder's sensibilities, which is why I call him a 45 year old teenager. By trying to be more mature and edgy, those movies show just how immature they are.
 
Resurrecting this thread as I just watched the movie.

I honestly have no idea why this film is placed up there as DC’s best. It is alright, but damn does it drag. The beginning scene was great, and the ending when Starro appears was fantastic. Everything in the middle made little to no sense and dragged on for an eternity neither being funny or serious. Peace Maker and his weirdness was basically the thing holding up the middle other than the occasional exposition scenes such as the bus.
 
Like he could work on the big screen, it's just that modern DC can't do Superman and his characters well.


Same with making the makeup on Leto look similar to a child
Even beyond that something that grinds my gears is people using the same takes from the 60s about marvel being better because "its about humans being heroic" while DC is still painted in a silver age brush.

Strip the justice league of their powers but keep the characters the same and put them in any other occupation, say food delivery. With competent writers that show could stay on network tv for 21 years or even 14 with incompetent ones. and thats because The characters themselves are good enough to build a story around.

  • Clark Kent, an adopted son of with a rural most likely boomer conservative upbringing, still dealing with the trauma of transracial adoption
  • Bruce Wayne, an orphan and rape victim who's so broken he barely trusts anyone and will constantly push friends away because of his own self esteem issues. outside of his job he compulsively does he's a wreck of a human being.
  • Diana Prince, an immigrant from a country with an extremely foreign culture trying to live a life in a country with entirely different views on everything, especially women
  • Arthur Curry, the disowned son of an interracial marriage, raised by his lower caste father and his family, he now mainly works in the same area where his mom and her people live.
  • Barry Allen, former foster kid who's father murdered his mother but still pleads innocent.
  • Hal Jordan, a conservative veteran dealing with PTSD from when a tragedy destroyed his home town and loved ones
  • John Stewart, a black man with a chip on his shoulder because despite how hard he tries he's still treated like a thug

its even worse with superman because just the backstory alone means you could make it a lot more introspective, really delve into the idea of "who is the real person" and maybe relate the idea of superman and clark kent to code switching. People bring up the kike creators of superman and talk about it being an allegory for the human experience, so a white guy from kansas who's really an alien and has to deal with how people perceive him depending on how they know him would probably speak to a shitload of people, especially in the current day. Even if you aren't a minority, you're guaranteed to act different at work, or with family, or with your friends or when you're on this very website. And the concept of self actualization and which of your personas is truely the real one is something everyone can relate to. Plus you get action scenes. Smallville was on for about a decade because of how easy this was. there's no reason the movie has to be one straightforward story. It could easily be episodic, the rogues being just another hassle in life.
 
Even beyond that something that grinds my gears is people using the same takes from the 60s about marvel being better because "its about humans being heroic" while DC is still painted in a silver age brush.

Strip the justice league of their powers but keep the characters the same and put them in any other occupation, say food delivery. With competent writers that show could stay on network tv for 21 years or even 14 with incompetent ones. and thats because The characters themselves are good enough to build a story around.

  • Clark Kent, an adopted son of with a rural most likely boomer conservative upbringing, still dealing with the trauma of transracial adoption
  • Bruce Wayne, an orphan and rape victim who's so broken he barely trusts anyone and will constantly push friends away because of his own self esteem issues. outside of his job he compulsively does he's a wreck of a human being.
  • Diana Prince, an immigrant from a country with an extremely foreign culture trying to live a life in a country with entirely different views on everything, especially women
  • Arthur Curry, the disowned son of an interracial marriage, raised by his lower caste father and his family, he now mainly works in the same area where his mom and her people live.
  • Barry Allen, former foster kid who's father murdered his mother but still pleads innocent.
  • Hal Jordan, a conservative veteran dealing with PTSD from when a tragedy destroyed his home town and loved ones
  • John Stewart, a black man with a chip on his shoulder because despite how hard he tries he's still treated like a thug

its even worse with superman because just the backstory alone means you could make it a lot more introspective, really delve into the idea of "who is the real person" and maybe relate the idea of superman and clark kent to code switching. People bring up the kike creators of superman and talk about it being an allegory for the human experience, so a white guy from kansas who's really an alien and has to deal with how people perceive him depending on how they know him would probably speak to a shitload of people, especially in the current day. Even if you aren't a minority, you're guaranteed to act different at work, or with family, or with your friends or when you're on this very website. And the concept of self actualization and which of your personas is truely the real one is something everyone can relate to. Plus you get action scenes. Smallville was on for about a decade because of how easy this was. there's no reason the movie has to be one straightforward story. It could easily be episodic, the rogues being just another hassle in life.
I feel the issue with that perception, especially with Superman is that people don't seem to want to make a movie that portrays Superman as an actual human, especially Zack Snyder who wanted to make Superman Jesus which isn't really his character

Resurrecting this thread as I just watched the movie.

I honestly have no idea why this film is placed up there as DC’s best. It is alright, but damn does it drag. The beginning scene was great, and the ending when Starro appears was fantastic. Everything in the middle made little to no sense and dragged on for an eternity neither being funny or serious. Peace Maker and his weirdness was basically the thing holding up the middle other than the occasional exposition scenes such as the bus.
I feel it's put up there due to how low the bar is for many of DC's films. The DCEU is a complete mess with most of the films being awful that a decent film looks like gold in comparison.
 
I feel the issue with that perception, especially with Superman is that people don't seem to want to make a movie that portrays Superman as an actual human, especially Zack Snyder who wanted to make Superman Jesus which isn't really his character


I feel it's put up there due to how low the bar is for many of DC's films. The DCEU is a complete mess with most of the films being awful that a decent film looks like gold in comparison.
Zack fucked his whole character up hard, MoS was shit for a bunch of reasons. Its been canon since the 80s that Clark gets his idea to be a hero from his adoptive parents rather than his birth parents. Which makes a lot more sense, adopting isn't something someone does lightly, the hoops you jump through as well as the burden you're knowingly undertaking (most people aren't giving up their kids willingly unless they're even worse than ethan ralph and the courts only take them away from habitual criminals) means very few people are willing to do it, its a mass negative on a person unless you're a child molester basically. for fucks sake you can't even adopt a cat unless you're proven to be the type that would lift a car or pull a bus from the water or run out to save one from a tornado. So the Kents being the ones to inspire his vigilantism makes sense. I understand the whole "people keeping you down, tall poppy syndome, be who you were meant to be" concept but its a shitty message especially the idea of his parents keeping him down. plus it makes the audience hate a big part of his supporting cast. Imagine a reverse, with the kents being those types that are always volunteering at bake sales or food kitchens, always helping stack chairs after assemblies and chaperoning field trips, constantly putting their nose where it doesn't belong. Thats the type that would raise someone to fight for truth, justice, the american way.

Honestly making superman an emotional little bitch really helps solve the whole "why do we need the rest of the heroes if we have a superman" paradox too. it would also naturally lead to the justice league, being more of a support group for people who can't really do therapy to deal with what they go through.
 
I don't see the problem with Batman killing. It's not like he's outright murdering people. (Although he did kind of murder those clowns in Returns.) It seems silly to demand a dark and gritty film series about a grown man in a bat costume, while also demanding he not kill anyone even in self defense and instead deliver them with a note to the nearest jail. That's Adam West Batman. It's something they can do in comic books because that shit's like soap operas for kids and expected to keep going forever, whereas movies have to actually end at some point and it's retarded for Batman to keep saving Joker or whatever when all he'll do is escape and hurt more innocent people.
 
Bruce became judge, jury and executioner when he started branding criminals. He knew the brand would attract violence in prison. It was just another way of taking out his rage on Superman and justifying it to himself.
I thought Luthor was paying prisoners to kill the branded to frame him? Otherwise why would being captured by Batman make a criminal a target of other criminals?
 
Resurrecting this thread as I just watched the movie.

I honestly have no idea why this film is placed up there as DC’s best. It is alright, but damn does it drag. The beginning scene was great, and the ending when Starro appears was fantastic. Everything in the middle made little to no sense and dragged on for an eternity neither being funny or serious. Peace Maker and his weirdness was basically the thing holding up the middle other than the occasional exposition scenes such as the bus.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you.

I saw the movie in theaters months ago, and it was fun and all, but ... It's a movie that doesn't really stand out, overall. Perhaps I would feel much differently had the previous Suicide Squad movie never happened ...

Anyway, this movie is basically just R-rated Guardians of the Galaxy. James Gunn is quickly becoming one of those directors who can make reliably entertaining stuff, but he appears to have reached a creative impasse.
 
I don't see the problem with Batman killing. It's not like he's outright murdering people. (Although he did kind of murder those clowns in Returns.) It seems silly to demand a dark and gritty film series about a grown man in a bat costume, while also demanding he not kill anyone even in self defense and instead deliver them with a note to the nearest jail. That's Adam West Batman. It's something they can do in comic books because that shit's like soap operas for kids and expected to keep going forever, whereas movies have to actually end at some point and it's retarded for Batman to keep saving Joker or whatever when all he'll do is escape and hurt more innocent people.
I don’t have a problem with Batman killing. What I do have a problem with is turning him into a character like Azreal.

That was the problem with the Batman in Dawn of Justice. There was no agency in his actions of killing people, like he’s done this a bunch of times before, and it makes him no different from any other kick-ass Earthly costumed hero. When Batman breaks his one rule and kills, or contributes to the death of an individual, it causes a level of psychological turmoil that compels him to be haunted by the deaths (like with Ra’s al Ghul in The Dark Knight trilogy or with Joker in the Arkham series) or take steps to amend the death (like making Dent’s murders his in The Dark Knight, setting the stage for The Dark Knight Rises).

I'm pretty much in agreement with you.

I saw the movie in theaters months ago, and it was fun and all, but ... It's a movie that doesn't really stand out, overall. Perhaps I would feel much differently had the previous Suicide Squad movie never happened ...

Anyway, this movie is basically just R-rated Guardians of the Galaxy. James Gunn is quickly becoming one of those directors who can make reliably entertaining stuff, but he appears to have reached a creative impasse.
Yea, this film was fun, but in the end no one’s really going to care. It doesn’t have a mostly coherent universe to be able to attach itself to. And the Ayer version kinda blew it. It butchered what the Suicide Squad were supposed to be in the first place. The Gunn film got it right. Assault on Arkham and Hell to Pay got it right. Why didn’t the Ayer film get it right? And now the Gunn film suffers for it.

At least we saw Harley Quinn in a bra. I was one of those coomers that was fine with Robbie playing Quinn.
 
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