Super-Chevy454
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Gabi Rodea need to do a trip in the Middle East to see their version of the patriarchy.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Thread - Started With Mutant Mayhem Discussion
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- 5 de Oct, 2018
I've started rewatching the Fred Wolf series, which I have not really looked at since its original run (and which I never finished). I doubt I'll watch the whole thing, but the first episode was just self-aware enough to be a fun diversion. There's a cute recurring gag where April can't tell the turtles apart.
Have Eastman or Laird ever given a detailed description of their role in the toy line and the Fred Wolf cartoon? I think Laird has posted some design sketches, but I'm really interested in how the characters and plot from the Mirage series mutated (heh heh) into the cartoon. The end result was really elegant in a way--you can't chop up people in Saturday morning cartoons, so you need robots, and the Utroms build robots, so you need an evil Utrom. Enter Krang and his Technodrome. The problem is solved and you get a duo of villains who can deliver exposition, bicker and quarrel, etc. You can't tell action stories with an unemployed computer programmer/junk store proprietress, so April becomes a reporter with a nose for trouble. Thus she can deliver new adventures to the Turtles every week. And The Hamato-Oroku feud is obviously unfit for a toy commercial, so he got a new story, too. It gave the Turtles motivation that didn't involve murder, but you know there's no chance they're ever going to permanently de-mutate their sensei so it doesn't have much effect in the long term. The end result is an almost total inversion of several of the Mirage concepts: the advanced, peaceful Utroms become an interdimensional warlord; the gentle, out-of-her-depth and slightly traumatized victim becomes a daring investigator; and the cycle of revenge and murder becomes something more wholesomely heroic.
To stay on topic, I guess, were any of the changes in Mutant Mayhem necessary adaptations for the medium? Did they improve on the original story or subsequent takes?
Have Eastman or Laird ever given a detailed description of their role in the toy line and the Fred Wolf cartoon? I think Laird has posted some design sketches, but I'm really interested in how the characters and plot from the Mirage series mutated (heh heh) into the cartoon. The end result was really elegant in a way--you can't chop up people in Saturday morning cartoons, so you need robots, and the Utroms build robots, so you need an evil Utrom. Enter Krang and his Technodrome. The problem is solved and you get a duo of villains who can deliver exposition, bicker and quarrel, etc. You can't tell action stories with an unemployed computer programmer/junk store proprietress, so April becomes a reporter with a nose for trouble. Thus she can deliver new adventures to the Turtles every week. And The Hamato-Oroku feud is obviously unfit for a toy commercial, so he got a new story, too. It gave the Turtles motivation that didn't involve murder, but you know there's no chance they're ever going to permanently de-mutate their sensei so it doesn't have much effect in the long term. The end result is an almost total inversion of several of the Mirage concepts: the advanced, peaceful Utroms become an interdimensional warlord; the gentle, out-of-her-depth and slightly traumatized victim becomes a daring investigator; and the cycle of revenge and murder becomes something more wholesomely heroic.
To stay on topic, I guess, were any of the changes in Mutant Mayhem necessary adaptations for the medium? Did they improve on the original story or subsequent takes?
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Funny thing is that Little Caesars had also sponsored TMNT in the ealry-90s with its first live action movie when that was released on home video.
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Basic Blond Boy
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Commander X
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- 6 de Abr, 2018
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- 27 de Oct, 2017
More like Mutant "Gay"hem.
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- 17 de Dic, 2019
Pokimane's ex-husband weighs in (heh) on the new April O'Neil.
- Registrado
- 3 de Nov, 2020
Anyways I've watched Mutant Mayhem at the end of August (during the KF ban in Europe)
and this wasn't that bad, as something from Seth Rogen (maybe because they were controlling him).
Pros: >the turtles has teenage character, they were more like actual teens and their relation was sweet, like actual teen siblings
Cons: the artstyle doesn't work on human characters (ex: April), they look deformed and the movie will age like milk due to heavy 2020's jokes and setting (ex: BTS jokes,
twerking turtle
But in my opinion this should stay as spin-off, separate movie (like 2007 movie, or Bay TMNT). Maybe because the ending is breaking one of fundamental elements of franchise in the end the turtles are in typical high school and they are liked by people
and this wasn't that bad, as something from Seth Rogen (maybe because they were controlling him).
Pros: >the turtles has teenage character, they were more like actual teens and their relation was sweet, like actual teen siblings
Cons: the artstyle doesn't work on human characters (ex: April), they look deformed and the movie will age like milk due to heavy 2020's jokes and setting (ex: BTS jokes,
twerking turtle
But in my opinion this should stay as spin-off, separate movie (like 2007 movie, or Bay TMNT). Maybe because the ending is breaking one of fundamental elements of franchise in the end the turtles are in typical high school and they are liked by people
- Registrado
- 16 de Ene, 2023
I just wanna pop in to say Raph with a durag sucks, so does Don with glasses. Making them physically different should be good enough if you don't want them as pure palette swaps which I do.
BetterFuckChuck
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- 8 de Jul, 2022
just watched it today because it was on sky cinema. it was good but it was trying way too hard to be funny and quirky and all the zoomer/ebonics is not only super dated but not really authentic to anyone but oreos. i liked all the mutants tho and i felt the villain was really good. there's a certain irony that this got caught up in the culture war, but the only right wing bannings of the movie came from the middle east
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- 20 de Oct, 2019
Well I'll take that as an invitation!
The 2012 TMNT series is imo the high-point and most impressive adaptation. For one thing, it is bizarre. Bizarre in ways I don't think many even realise. Case in point, in almost every cross-over between franchises the script goes out of its way to ensure that both franchises are presented on an equal footing. Whether its Godzilla vs Kong or any CW Arrowverse series or kid's cartoon with guest appearances, the writers go out of their way to balance things to show the validity and value of both. TMNT has cross-over episodes with the 1987 series and it is honestly the only example I can think of in which a cross-over doesn't try to do this. The 1987 turtles are doofuses. You might think there's some special lesson in which the 2012 more serious turtles learn the value of being more light-hearted or doing things the 1987 way, but there isn't. The 1987 turtles repeatedly get their arses handed to them and aren't equipped for this reality. The only learning that takes place is that the 2012 ones persuade the 1987 ones to actually use their weapons for once!
It's an odd point to start with but it shows how unusual the show is. I've seen countless cross-overs in countless franchises and media. I don't recall any of them not going out of their way to put everybody on an equal footing. (Bonus aside, BOTH sets of turtles briefly visit the Turtle Prime universe which is the actual Eastman and Laird comics).
I'll stick with the cross-over episodes for one more example of how bizarre and interesting the show could be. The Space Heroes cartoon that the turtles watch throughout the series is said by the visiting 2D turtles to be a live-action show in their universe. Which is not only amusingly meta but followed up by April asking "are there as many disintegrations in your version? Because that would be horrible." To which the 2D turtle shudders and whispers "it is". Darkness - I really got used to the darkness in this show. Such as...
It's canonical in the 2012 show that Casey and April die. We see the unaltered future in this show and humans finally go extinct and mutants inherit the Earth. We know both of them die and Raph has Casey's skull kept in a Casey-shrine in the back of his van. To be fair, Casey would probably approve - Raph uses it as a bomb in the end. But I really enjoy how grim the show gets sometimes and the attention to detail. In the future we don't see Casey's current hockey mask, we see a larger, US-flag decorated one indicating a lifespan beyond what we saw.
Body horror is a recurrent theme in the show. Which makes sense given the theme of mutation and the writers are clearly huge fans of shlock horror. There are callouts to Aliens, The Thing, the Fly (Oh, man - is the Baxter fly mutant disgusting. He has this vagina-like mouth thing in his forehead and a kind of afro made of faeces).
The show managed to run for 5 seasons and keep reasonably consistent good quality throughout which is way more than most shows manage which begin to slide around S3 at best. Maybe some sagging around the middle with the farmhouse episodes, but that wasn't for too long and still had some highlights.
It also drew a lot on the comics. You had the mutant apocalypse future, you had Renet and the Time Masters, TCRI, Utroms, Triceraton Empire...
I have to say that of all the incarnations of the TMNT, the 2012 show is probably my favourite with a good balance of humour, meta humour, emotion, horror, heroism and darkness. It also ended on a nice note with a victory, a couple of the more likeable villains getting a redemption and though you know not everybody makes it to a happy ending you get the feeling it's not in vain.
They never did resolve the Casey-April-Donnie triangle, though. I feel like it would have been Casey. Donnie sort of dies anyway,
It's an odd point to start with but it shows how unusual the show is. I've seen countless cross-overs in countless franchises and media. I don't recall any of them not going out of their way to put everybody on an equal footing. (Bonus aside, BOTH sets of turtles briefly visit the Turtle Prime universe which is the actual Eastman and Laird comics).
I'll stick with the cross-over episodes for one more example of how bizarre and interesting the show could be. The Space Heroes cartoon that the turtles watch throughout the series is said by the visiting 2D turtles to be a live-action show in their universe. Which is not only amusingly meta but followed up by April asking "are there as many disintegrations in your version? Because that would be horrible." To which the 2D turtle shudders and whispers "it is". Darkness - I really got used to the darkness in this show. Such as...
It's canonical in the 2012 show that Casey and April die. We see the unaltered future in this show and humans finally go extinct and mutants inherit the Earth. We know both of them die and Raph has Casey's skull kept in a Casey-shrine in the back of his van. To be fair, Casey would probably approve - Raph uses it as a bomb in the end. But I really enjoy how grim the show gets sometimes and the attention to detail. In the future we don't see Casey's current hockey mask, we see a larger, US-flag decorated one indicating a lifespan beyond what we saw.
Body horror is a recurrent theme in the show. Which makes sense given the theme of mutation and the writers are clearly huge fans of shlock horror. There are callouts to Aliens, The Thing, the Fly (Oh, man - is the Baxter fly mutant disgusting. He has this vagina-like mouth thing in his forehead and a kind of afro made of faeces).
The show managed to run for 5 seasons and keep reasonably consistent good quality throughout which is way more than most shows manage which begin to slide around S3 at best. Maybe some sagging around the middle with the farmhouse episodes, but that wasn't for too long and still had some highlights.
It also drew a lot on the comics. You had the mutant apocalypse future, you had Renet and the Time Masters, TCRI, Utroms, Triceraton Empire...
I have to say that of all the incarnations of the TMNT, the 2012 show is probably my favourite with a good balance of humour, meta humour, emotion, horror, heroism and darkness. It also ended on a nice note with a victory, a couple of the more likeable villains getting a redemption and though you know not everybody makes it to a happy ending you get the feeling it's not in vain.
They never did resolve the Casey-April-Donnie triangle, though. I feel like it would have been Casey. Donnie sort of dies anyway,
- Registrado
- 30 de Abr, 2023
To be honest couldn't argee more on tmnt 2012 ,all tho i really considered the ending of the series to be "good times" it wraps up everything ties up loose endings. Even the ending of the episode ends beautifully and all of season 5 is like that which i loved
I always Considered the Mutant Apocalypse Arc of eps to be AU but a overall Coda to the '12 series that always gets me and also this:
Your post basically sum up why tmnt '12 is basically up there with the 2003 series.
Then for rise to ruin all of it lmao i will get into that into that in a bit
I always Considered the Mutant Apocalypse Arc of eps to be AU but a overall Coda to the '12 series that always gets me and also this:
Your post basically sum up why tmnt '12 is basically up there with the 2003 series.
Then for rise to ruin all of it lmao i will get into that into that in a bit
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- Registrado
- 20 de Oct, 2019
It's good to find a kindred spirit on this. Yeah, it ended really well. And with a nice progression of characters. The arc of Bebop and Rocksteady was a really complementary element to the arc of the main characters because you really felt good about seeing that redemption.
A nice thing about the TMNT2012 was that in addition to the heavy and overt humour, they weren't averse to doing some more subtle humour. Example - Leo makes a comment about Raph being attracted to a giant reptile and in the background you see Karai's eyes do this little side to side awkward thing. Blink and you'd miss it.
The cross-over episode was a missed opportunity to at least cameo a 3D 1987 April O'Neil. That would have been funny. But the script was pretty much perfect and I wouldn't alter it. And I guess they couldn't do a whole model for a 3 second cameo. Shame, though!
So... I don't think it's Alternate Universe - there's nothing in it that branches off from existing storyline in an alternate direction, no - what if element you can say this differs. It's a future of the existing storyline with same characters and continuity, the question would be if it is THE future. And I would say it was because although there is time travel in the TMNT canon, there is nothing in these episodes that includes time travel, no elements of "we can prevent this future from happening" or similar. And the thematic end to the Mutant Apocalypse arc is one of acceptance - you see the turtles and Splinter in the sky Anakin Skywalker style, there's the oasis with water and regrowing life, Leo recovers his mind and a new society starts. Basically every emotional beat is not of averting anything but of having come through something and found peace and continuation. There's basically nothing about it that suggests it's mean to be a "What If" other than that it doesn't directly follow on from the earlier stories. It's possible and far be it from me to argue forcefully that the way you receive it is wrong and mine is correct. Either of us could be. But it's consistent with comics IIRC where the future does become all mutants. And the writers generally didn't shy away from actual sacrifice or dark themes. Who knows - could be either of our views I guess. I personally like the positive notes at the end, there have been costs but something continued on and began again.
Yeah, 2012 series has a lot of respect for the comics. Differences - plenty. But style, tone and awareness of source, is all there. It's filled with respect for the source.
Apropos of nothing, I suddenly remembered that it also referenced the Michael Bay movie. When they're going through some of Mikey's difficulties separating reality from fantasy one of the things they list off is "...and you didn't meet Megan Fox on a rooftop!"
I have never watched any of it so I look forward to your takes on it. All I know is that the art style is dire.
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- 16 de Ene, 2023
Glad to see other TMNT friends even though I've already posted in the thread long before.
A question to you all: when they are physically identical quadruplets, do you prefer the turtles having different skin colors (like the classic Playmates toys or 2K3 show colors) alongside, or just rely on their mask colors and different belts/straps, to tell them apart?
A question to you all: when they are physically identical quadruplets, do you prefer the turtles having different skin colors (like the classic Playmates toys or 2K3 show colors) alongside, or just rely on their mask colors and different belts/straps, to tell them apart?
- Registrado
- 12 de Jun, 2019
Daw this thread necroed snd thought fucking hell they giving the tmnt that gave us coonshit April O'Neil a sequel? Thankfully not the case here
SSj_Ness (Yiffed)
Ask me about how teen girls deserve to be abducted
True & Honest Fan
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- 28 de Jun, 2021
Sucks to see people support this woke filth even a bit. At least we'll always have the good shit, like all the 90's games.
We should stop expecting others to clean up our mess. Our woodchippers are better than their tall buildings.
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- 27 de Oct, 2017
@Overly Serious
Sadly I couldn't disagree with you more about the crossover with the '87 turtles. The 2003 TMNT did the same shit where they had to exaggerate how goofy the originals turtles were to the point of making them imbiciles, in order to make their new version look better by comparison. Realistically speaking, neither one would exist if it weren't for the '87 version, and I think the fact that they both had to bring back the originals (if only to dump on them) only proves that point more.
Also James Avery is the best Shredder, fight me.
Sadly I couldn't disagree with you more about the crossover with the '87 turtles. The 2003 TMNT did the same shit where they had to exaggerate how goofy the originals turtles were to the point of making them imbiciles, in order to make their new version look better by comparison. Realistically speaking, neither one would exist if it weren't for the '87 version, and I think the fact that they both had to bring back the originals (if only to dump on them) only proves that point more.
Also James Avery is the best Shredder, fight me.