Stranger Things

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season 4 was significantly better than season 3.

the upside down "invading" the real world was an obvious final step for the show, but I assumed that when the gate was opened, six gorillion demons would immediately flood out. so the fact the show skipped 48 hours ahead and people are just mildly inconvenienced was really funny. don't know what the fuck that was about. did I forget a step they need before they can bust in or
Well, it's badly explained but basically:

- Max dies, so the portal opens
- Huge earthquake, red shit, IT"S THE END OF TH-
- They give Max a Phoenix Down
- All the red shit stops and goes back to normal
- Since it really only took a minute and most people who saw the red shit have died, it's treated as an earthquake
- Still, a bunch of people freaked out which is why you're seeing so many cars just yeeting out of there
- It's now 48 hours later and the upside down is still upside down
- For some reason it starts to "snow" & flowers start to wither, showing that the upside down is now starting to seep through

----

It's basically a triple expectation subversion in a row

Slow-motion montage of Vecna dying - Psyche! He's alive...
Max is alive - Psyche! She still has 1 HP...
The Upside Down has breached into the real world - Psyche! Max being alive stopped it... - Psyche! It's actually happening or is it?! Tune in next year!!!


Trying to cram all of that shit in the last 20 minutes, when 15 of those last 20 minutes are basically Lord of The Rings style emotional reunions and pointless speeches was a mistake but at almost 2 hours and a half they probably realized they had to cut some shit and decide to leave the emotional stuff in and cut plot-related stuff,

tl;dr they shat the ending up
 
This thread depresses me. This is the only Television show I actually watch from the Present.

Fuck Breaking Bad. Fuck Game of Thrones. Fuck CSI. Fuck Love & Hip Hop.

Stranger Things is the best quality television since the new millennium began.
 
Stranger Things is the best quality television since the new millennium began.
Nigga you're a retard just off the top of my head

The Sopranos
The Shield
The Wire
24
Justified
Ozarks
Band of Brothers
Inside No 9
Six Feet Under
Flight of the Conchords
The Americans
Deadwood
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Haunting of Hill House
Brassic

Early It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

Shit, even Lost is better than Stranger Things,

Fuck, it's not even the best Netflix original

Daredevil
Punisher
American Vandal
The End of the Fucking World
The Ranch


are all better than ST.
 
Nigga you're a retard just off the top of my head

The Sopranos
The Shield
The Wire
24
Justified
Ozarks
Band of Brothers
Inside No 9
Six Feet Under
Flight of the Conchords
The Americans
Deadwood
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Haunting of Hill House
Brassic

Early It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

Shit, even Lost is better than Stranger Things,

Fuck, it's not even the best Netflix original

Daredevil
Punisher
American Vandal
The End of the Fucking World
The Ranch


are all better than ST.
Second season of Punisher was so bad. I couldn't even make it halfway through.
 
There's just so much shit that could have conceivably cut from Season 4 that (I hate to use THAT book) it reminds me of the absolute car crash that happened to Harry Potter books once JK Rowling got too powerful to ever use an editor. So many scenes just run an extra minute or two too long and all of the snappiness and lightening quick pace sof the first two seasons disappear. The writers have all the clout and an almost unlimited budget to do whatever they want as long as Netflix keeps their flagship show so we're going to see sloppy writing because they can CGI their ways out of it.

The Russia plot stands out as the worst bit by far of Season 4 (doubly so because you can tell they dedicated a decent amount of their budget towards it) but there's still the extended L bullying scenes (come on now, did that roller rink scene have to be THAT long?), the Suzie household scenes, L training scenes, Robin talking too much scenes, and a fucking 20 minute monologue by the big bad at the end of Episode 7 to tie everything together because the pacing was completely fucked and they clearly realised they needed to get everything together before the season break.

I also don't buy that the final two episodes of the season were originally planned to come much later, if they wanted two parts they could have easily broken the Season into equal parts. This screams of creative issues and not actually having the episodes ready by the time part 1 dropped. If I'm a betting man I think they'll end Season 4 on a cliffhanger just so it buys them enough time to unfuck the story in a year or twos time.
LMAO congratulations my friend.
 
Nigga you're a retard just off the top of my head

The Sopranos
The Shield
The Wire
24
Justified
Ozarks
Band of Brothers
Inside No 9
Six Feet Under
Flight of the Conchords
The Americans
Deadwood
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Haunting of Hill House
Brassic

Early It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

Shit, even Lost is better than Stranger Things,

Fuck, it's not even the best Netflix original

Daredevil
Punisher
American Vandal
The End of the Fucking World
The Ranch


are all better than ST.
For a while Stranger Things was the best 80s-nostalgia-bait to come from the mid-2010s but it got upstaged by Cobra Kai in that department only 2 years later.
 
If it had been a single self-contained show, 10/10

In light of everything that came after and what we learned about the Upside Down and the mythology explained etc? 8/10
Agreed. I thought the second season was still good because of my specific tastes and the Mind Flayer was such a terrifying cosmic horror. The third and fourth season ruined that though. S3 was like an 80's-90's cartoon. S4 screwed over the MF worse than any other character when they made the lame Vecna the real villain.
 
Wasn't the upside down supposed to be poisonous or radioactive or something? In the first season you couldn't enter without full protective gear, this season you have people walking around half naked with open wounds breathing in all the snow and dust particles and god knows what else.
 
Nigga you're a retard just off the top of my head

The Sopranos
The Shield
The Wire
24
Justified
Ozarks
Band of Brothers
Inside No 9
Six Feet Under
Flight of the Conchords
The Americans
Deadwood
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Haunting of Hill House
Brassic

Early It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

Shit, even Lost is better than Stranger Things,

Fuck, it's not even the best Netflix original

Daredevil
Punisher
American Vandal
The End of the Fucking World
The Ranch


are all better than ST.
24 after they botched Tony’s character in Day 5 was shit
 
Wasn't the upside down supposed to be poisonous or radioactive or something? In the first season you couldn't enter without full protective gear, this season you have people walking around half naked with open wounds breathing in all the snow and dust particles and god knows what else.
In Season 1 they didn't know what the atmosphere of the upside down was like hence the suits. I think even Hopper took his helmet off to give Will CPR at some point so the atmosphere is at least consistant.
 
Wasn't the upside down supposed to be poisonous or radioactive or something? In the first season you couldn't enter without full protective gear, this season you have people walking around half naked with open wounds breathing in all the snow and dust particles and god knows what else.
I think the air - the particles - are toxic, but Will managed to last there for a week without clean food or clean water, so Steve managing to survive in the upside down for a handful of hours isn't beyond belief.



I can't believe they hyped Steve's firemen's axe up and then had him not use it at all. I'm fine with Nancy shooting the fuck out of Vecna - I might be the only person in this thread who doesn't take issue with Nancy developing into a badass, but I wish that Steve had gotten to charge at Vecna and hit him in the chest with the axe, causing him to fall out the window or something instead of just standing around.
 
Ok...big nerdgasm incoming...
Some of this comes from what other people have theorized on other sites and this is how I am piecing it all together.
Color me retarded, but...

It is now VERY obvious the Duffer Brothers are huge D&D nerds. Not sure if they play or not, but it is very clear that the game and it's lore had a heavy influence on the show. Every single monster's name has come directly from a creature in D&D; demigorgon, Mind Flayer, Vecna...
Vecna is the one that they really spent time on, though.
In D&D lore, Vecna was one of the big bad bosses in one branch of the lore. He was a lich. For those of you who do not know, a lich is a uber-powerful wizard who attempts immortality by intentionally making themselves undead. A lich is NOT something you wanna fuck around with. Now, one of Vecna's MO's was to fuck with people's minds, including other deities, by going in and harvesting their deepest, darkest secrets.
In the lore, Vecna was betrayed by his lieutenant and banish from Grayhawk, a "normal" world, to Ravenloft, the "spooky" world. If there was any D&D realm that the UD reminded you of, it would be Ravenloft. Given how much Henry/001 tried to recruit her to join him, and then she "betrayed" him by battling him and banishing him to the UD, the parallels are pretty obvious. D&D Vecna was also considered a "deal-maker", and while in Ravenloft, made various deals in an attempt to get back to Grayhawk. Sounds a lot like what 001/Henry did in the UD when he encountered the Mind Flayer. The Mind Flayer seems to be the "fuel" that feeds Vecna's power.
Now, when you destroy the physical body/form of a lich, their spirit/soul/essence/whatevs still lives on, BUT it must go back to a magic container called a phalactory. There the lich's spirit is "safe" while it restores its physical form. As long as nothing happens to the phalactory, the lich is fine.
This is what happens to Vecna...this is why, as his physical form is being destroyed, he give the arrogant speech about El and her gang "thinking they have won"...blah blah blah. Because he knows that destroying his body does not necessarily destroy him. So...what is the equivalent of his phalactory in the show? A phalactory can be anything that can be closed...and amulet, a bottle, a lamp, etc. What item has consistently been associated with Vecna from the begining...the clock. The big grandfather clock with the door. It is always there...it is practically the symbol for Vecna. It wouldn't be a stretch for that clock, wherever it is, to be his phalactory. Find and destroy the clock and you find and destroy Vecna once and for all.
Now...let's talk about Max. She died. Vecna got her. That is why everything went to shit in Hawkins. That's why the hell-gates all opened. He need to spirits/souls of the 4 kids. Max was the fourth. However, El went in and jump-started her body, leaving her in a coma. But she's not there....she is still with Vecna as his spiritual prisoner like all the others. This is why when El went to the hospital and tried to go to the black-place and find her, she couldn't. She's not there. She's with Vecna.
However, IF they can find the phalactory and destroy it, that frees the other 3 souls, whose bodies are 100% dead and gone, to move on to the great beyond...but Max gets to go back to her body and wake up.
Also, by killing Vecna, you would most likely render the hell-gates inert and have the rift between Hawkins and the UD closed forever.

TL;DR - Season 5 will focus on finding Vecna's phalactory and destroying it, thus reviving Max and closing the UD gates in Hawkins forever.
 
Última edición:
Ok...big nerdgasm incoming...
Some of this comes from what other people have theorized on other sites and this is how I am piecing it all together.
Color me retarded, but...

It is now VERY obvious the Duffer Brothers are huge D&D nerds. Not sure if they play or not, but it is very clear that the game and it's lore had a heavy influence on the show. Every single monster's name has come directly from a creature in D&D; demigorgon, Mind Flayer, Vecna...
Vecna is the one that they really spent time on, though.
In D&D lore, Vecna was one of the big bad bosses in one branch of the lore. He was a lich. For those of you who do not know, a lich is a uber-powerful wizard who attempts immortality by intentionally making themselves undead. A lich is NOT something you wanna fuck around with. Now, one of Vecna's MO's was to fuck with people's minds, including other deities, by going in and harvesting their deepest, darkest secrets.
In the lore, Vecna was betrayed by his lieutenant and banish from Grayhawk, a "normal" world, to Ravenloft, the "spooky" world. If there was any D&D realm that the UD reminded you of, it would be Ravenloft. Given how much Henry/001 tried to recruit her to join him, and then she "betrayed" him by battling him and banishing him to the UD, the parallels are pretty obvious. D&D Vecna was also considered a "deal-maker", and while in Ravenloft, made various deals in an attempt to get back to Grayhawk. Sounds a lot like what 001/Henry did in the UD when he encountered the Mind Flayer. The Mind Flayer seems to be the "fuel" that feeds Vecna's power.
Now, when you destroy the physical body/form of a lich, their spirit/soul/essence/whatevs still lives on, BUT it must go back to a magic container called a phalactory. There the lich's spirit is "safe" while it restores its physical form. As long as nothing happens to the phalactory, the lich is fine.
This is what happens to Vecna...this is why, as his physical form is being destroyed, he give the arrogant speech about El and her gang "thinking they have won"...blah blah blah. Because he knows that destroying his body does not necessarily destroy him. So...what is the equivalent of his phalactory in the show? A phalactory can be anything that can be closed...and amulet, a bottle, a lamp, etc. What item has consistently been associated with Vecna from the begining...the clock. The big grandfather clock with the door. It is always there...it is practically the symbol for Vecna. It wouldn't be a stretch for that clock, wherever it is, to be his phalactory. Find and destroy the clock and you find and destroy Vecna once and for all.
Now...let's talk about Max. She died. Vecna got her. That is why everything went to shit in Hawkins. That's why the hell-gates all opened. He need to spirits/souls of the 4 kids. Max was the fourth. However, El went in and jump-started her body, leaving her in a coma. But she's not there....she is still with Vecna as his spiritual prisoner like all the others. This is why when El went to the hospital and tried to go to the black-place and find her, she couldn't. She's not there. She's with Vecna.
However, IF they can find the phalactory and destroy it, that frees the other 3 souls, whose bodies are 100% dead and gone, to move on to the great beyond...but Max gets to go back to her body and wake up.
Also, by killing Vecna, you would most likely render the hell-gates inert and have the rift between Hawkins and the UD closed forever.

TL;DR - Season 5 will focus on finding Vecna's phalactory and destroying it, thus reviving Max and closing the UD gates in Hawkins forever.

Well written, but don't forget that Vecna (from D&D), in his attempt to escape from Ravenloft, almost destroyed reality (Vecna Lives Die! & Die, Vecna, Die!), something clearly happening now.
 
Now...let's talk about Max. She died. Vecna got her. That is why everything went to shit in Hawkins. That's why the hell-gates all opened. He need to spirits/souls of the 4 kids. Max was the fourth. However, El went in and jump-started her body, leaving her in a coma. But she's not there....she is still with Vecna as his spiritual prisoner like all the others. This is why when El went to the hospital and tried to go to the black-place and find her, she couldn't. She's not there. She's with Vecna.
I was just now wondering about how Eleven actually did it: she was astral projecting so it couldn't have been physical, like just telekinetic CPR, right?
So either El is a necromancer now (dope) or it must have been something purely psychic--I'm guessing she just forcibly booted her brain, turning the lights on regardless of nobody being home, and this mistake is going to be her big angsty thing next season.
So if that's the case, maybe Vecna didn't actually eat her soul. He completed the ritual but didn't get to dessert (which is just a habit of his that he seemed to have in the flashbacks too and is probably unrelated to the cardinal hellmouth summoning thing--and TBH this doesn't seem like the kind of show where you get to come back if someone eats your ghost) but may have severed it so Max is possibly floating around elsewhere.

This guess is purely for narrative reasons, since it provides her initially with a Vecna-level source of guilt for turning her friend into a braindead zombie, and ultimately an out once she gets more information. Just seems like the kinda shit that'd happen. But it's functionally the same thing as what you're saying and they'd probably think exactly that at some point.

Another option is that she's just a jesus now, they even gave her a stained-glass halo for a while during the fight.
 
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