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- 25 de Sep, 2014
It's certainly a quandary.
Special Education - Your thoughts on it
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- 30 de Mayo, 2013
Laziness?
- Registrado
- 25 de Sep, 2014
One thing to understand is that often Special Ed. programs are usually handled by the county dept. of education, not the school district they may occupy a space in. I'm sure those teachers get paid separate from the district though I don't know for sure but as I had stated elsewhere, these sorts of classes often cram kids of variying ages/grades together, and often teach them all with the same book.
- Registrado
- 17 de Abr, 2014
I think it is ok. I saw something a bit ago about the various camps and things that people can send their kids to where they get abused.
It's something to think about that even with the best intentions from those involved children are essentially helpless and as a result there are lots of dangerous systems that kids can get wrapped up in and nothing happens when it comes down to the word of one adult vs 30 damaged non-persons.
- Registrado
- 6 de Mar, 2016
Is there more information on this? How could this happen?
- Registrado
- 17 de Abr, 2014
https://www.google.com/search?q=abuse+in+special+education
https://www.google.com/search?q=abusive+camps+for+kids
https://www.google.com/search?q=abuse+in+foster+system
https://www.google.com/#q=child abuse juvenile hall
You can also search for mental health workers and mental hospitals but the relevant results get somewhat diluted.
Kids get abused pretty much as soon as there is an opportunity
https://www.google.com/search?q=abusive+camps+for+kids
https://www.google.com/search?q=abuse+in+foster+system
https://www.google.com/#q=child abuse juvenile hall
You can also search for mental health workers and mental hospitals but the relevant results get somewhat diluted.
Kids get abused pretty much as soon as there is an opportunity
- Registrado
- 3 de Mayo, 2016
My mother taught public school Exceptional Education (which is another name for special ed) while I was growing up, and as the current system stands (at least in America and especially the state of Florida), it is an absolute goddamn mess. The state of education in this country is already deplorable, but ExEd is especially deplorable.
TL;DR: Good concept in theory; utterly horrible in practice; unlikely to improve without some kind of sweeping societal changes, though.
The current plan used down here is something called "inclusion", which is what I believe some of you are referring to with the whole "speds and normies in the same room" thing. This has been shown to rarely, if ever, work. All it really does is stress out the teacher and causes a detriment to educated the regular kids as the sped (or speds; yes, there are schools that will put more than one in a room) causes repeated disruptions. Like someone in the thread said earlier, the teacher can't really teach the rest of the class if they keep having to deal with Jimmy Crayonchewer.
First, you need to separate these kids. It's harsh, but it's true. Those who are not hopeless causes need specialized attention from those who are also properly trained in dealing with their behavioral issues when they either have a meltdown or worse (mom had kids who would throw chairs and desks; others who would literally run off-campus and into the street if not contained). For some of these kids, with enough specialized intervention/attention, you can eventually re-integrate them into the general student population. These would most likely be your high-functioning types, at-risk types, your emotionally/learning disabled. But again, the key word is: properly trained. The average teacher is not equipped to deal with this shit, which is a huge part of the problem.
Now, that's the first issue. Second issue, sometimes the kids are not ever going to be able to re-integrate. Those are the low-functioning kids, your severely mentally disabled types. These kids struggle with more than just social skills, these are the ones who struggle cognitively and physically (your hydrocephaly kids, for example) with basic survival at times. It's again, harsh but true, but people need to stop expecting some kind of school miracle that's going to turn these kids into high-functioners. However, it's not a complete washout - despite the severe handicap, a lot of these kids still have some measure of trainability. You can't teach 'em to take a standardized test but at the very least you could teach them to signal you when they need to use the bathroom so you're not cleaning up shit every couple of hours and it will make everyone's life so much easier. If you have a mid-range type (such as your Downs kids), you can instruct them in some more complex skills, such as setting them up for future vocational efforts.
Your mid-to-severes, though, are not going to make it in the academic setting. They just aren't. No Child Left Behind is a crock of shit. These kids can do things/can be taught things, but everyone's time and money is being wasted trying to teach them things that they just cannot and will not ever grasp, and it just makes things harder for said kids.
Third issue is parental intervention. Sometimes, mom had good parents who were just overwhelmed (the school she was at was somewhat lower-income so some of her kids' parents were just the exhausted single mom types), some of them were the kind of shitheads who never come to IEP meetings and if they do, it's while utterly shitfaced drunk/high/whatever. Nowadays, though, parents actually "parent" even less than ever. School is not your goddamn containment pen. Your little angel can be a nasty little heathen. Without parental support, all the intervention in the world is not going to do the kids a bit of good, because as soon as they go home at the end of the day, there's nothing to reinforce that intervention. It's simple goddamn behaviorism.
To use a horse example, our horsetrainer had an unruly piece of shit that an owner dropped off and some cash for her to 'fix' it and make it show ready. This horse was barely halter-broken, it was 17 hands of pure unbridled murder. But the trainer grit her teeth and busted her ass fixing its behavior and turning it into almost a whole new animal, and even managed to take it to a couple of smaller practice shows where it won some awards. At the end of the paid-for period, the trainer told the owner that they needed to keep up the horse's training by doing XYZ practice/skill reinforcement with it.
Horse goes home, the owner does nothing. Horse reverts back into being a piece of shit. Trainer refused to take him back after that.
Unfortunately, due to federal laws ensuring the rights of a free education to every child, teachers can't say no/reject a child when a parent won't fucking pick up their end of the work.
Fourth issue is structural/governmental. As of right now, there aren't even enough REGULAR teachers to fill schools in this state, let alone ExEd-certified ones. Social workers are so overloaded they burn out before they can do any measure of good. Underfunded public schools don't always have the money for separate classrooms for an ExEd program or said teachers. Adult education/post-school education programs to keep up the reinforcement/intervention are few and far between and also suffer from underfunding. If privatized institutions/programs exist, these are frequently out of reach of those who need them most due to the cost of utilizing them. This isn't even going into the issues of abuse a lot of said places inflict, either.
Basically, special education is there to fill a need, and could potentially work. Would it be nice if we could save every kid (and even adult) and give them opportunities to do things they're capable of, rather than let a lot of speds end up being parasites on an already overburdened system, or leave them vulnerable to other parasites who would take advantage of them for financial or sadistic gain? Sure. But as it stands, most people either don't want to accept the limitations of some kids or don't want to put in the money/effort to actually make that a reality.
(The real ideal is that we wouldn't have anyone being a sped in the first place and everyone has equal capabilities/opportunities, but we all know that's a eugenical pipe dream.)
First, you need to separate these kids. It's harsh, but it's true. Those who are not hopeless causes need specialized attention from those who are also properly trained in dealing with their behavioral issues when they either have a meltdown or worse (mom had kids who would throw chairs and desks; others who would literally run off-campus and into the street if not contained). For some of these kids, with enough specialized intervention/attention, you can eventually re-integrate them into the general student population. These would most likely be your high-functioning types, at-risk types, your emotionally/learning disabled. But again, the key word is: properly trained. The average teacher is not equipped to deal with this shit, which is a huge part of the problem.
Now, that's the first issue. Second issue, sometimes the kids are not ever going to be able to re-integrate. Those are the low-functioning kids, your severely mentally disabled types. These kids struggle with more than just social skills, these are the ones who struggle cognitively and physically (your hydrocephaly kids, for example) with basic survival at times. It's again, harsh but true, but people need to stop expecting some kind of school miracle that's going to turn these kids into high-functioners. However, it's not a complete washout - despite the severe handicap, a lot of these kids still have some measure of trainability. You can't teach 'em to take a standardized test but at the very least you could teach them to signal you when they need to use the bathroom so you're not cleaning up shit every couple of hours and it will make everyone's life so much easier. If you have a mid-range type (such as your Downs kids), you can instruct them in some more complex skills, such as setting them up for future vocational efforts.
Your mid-to-severes, though, are not going to make it in the academic setting. They just aren't. No Child Left Behind is a crock of shit. These kids can do things/can be taught things, but everyone's time and money is being wasted trying to teach them things that they just cannot and will not ever grasp, and it just makes things harder for said kids.
Third issue is parental intervention. Sometimes, mom had good parents who were just overwhelmed (the school she was at was somewhat lower-income so some of her kids' parents were just the exhausted single mom types), some of them were the kind of shitheads who never come to IEP meetings and if they do, it's while utterly shitfaced drunk/high/whatever. Nowadays, though, parents actually "parent" even less than ever. School is not your goddamn containment pen. Your little angel can be a nasty little heathen. Without parental support, all the intervention in the world is not going to do the kids a bit of good, because as soon as they go home at the end of the day, there's nothing to reinforce that intervention. It's simple goddamn behaviorism.
To use a horse example, our horsetrainer had an unruly piece of shit that an owner dropped off and some cash for her to 'fix' it and make it show ready. This horse was barely halter-broken, it was 17 hands of pure unbridled murder. But the trainer grit her teeth and busted her ass fixing its behavior and turning it into almost a whole new animal, and even managed to take it to a couple of smaller practice shows where it won some awards. At the end of the paid-for period, the trainer told the owner that they needed to keep up the horse's training by doing XYZ practice/skill reinforcement with it.
Horse goes home, the owner does nothing. Horse reverts back into being a piece of shit. Trainer refused to take him back after that.
Unfortunately, due to federal laws ensuring the rights of a free education to every child, teachers can't say no/reject a child when a parent won't fucking pick up their end of the work.
Fourth issue is structural/governmental. As of right now, there aren't even enough REGULAR teachers to fill schools in this state, let alone ExEd-certified ones. Social workers are so overloaded they burn out before they can do any measure of good. Underfunded public schools don't always have the money for separate classrooms for an ExEd program or said teachers. Adult education/post-school education programs to keep up the reinforcement/intervention are few and far between and also suffer from underfunding. If privatized institutions/programs exist, these are frequently out of reach of those who need them most due to the cost of utilizing them. This isn't even going into the issues of abuse a lot of said places inflict, either.
Basically, special education is there to fill a need, and could potentially work. Would it be nice if we could save every kid (and even adult) and give them opportunities to do things they're capable of, rather than let a lot of speds end up being parasites on an already overburdened system, or leave them vulnerable to other parasites who would take advantage of them for financial or sadistic gain? Sure. But as it stands, most people either don't want to accept the limitations of some kids or don't want to put in the money/effort to actually make that a reality.
(The real ideal is that we wouldn't have anyone being a sped in the first place and everyone has equal capabilities/opportunities, but we all know that's a eugenical pipe dream.)
TL;DR: Good concept in theory; utterly horrible in practice; unlikely to improve without some kind of sweeping societal changes, though.
Mantequilla
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 5 de Dic, 2016
I think it would depend on how functional these kids are, if they can be helped to work in a certain way and still be productive (for certain things), then it could be ok.
But if the student doesn't cooperate, then why try hard for someone that won't work? It seems like a waste of time and energy for everybody. It's pretty debatable.
But if the student doesn't cooperate, then why try hard for someone that won't work? It seems like a waste of time and energy for everybody. It's pretty debatable.
IwegalBadnik
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 11 de Mayo, 2014
That's not too extraordinary to hear in high school.
Now, to the topic at hand:
I knew a guy who was in the special education program of a local high school based on his having autism until being beckoned out. He was a guy who could converse a bit, but was not particularly smart and would often tard rage without warning. The foster parents he was with couldn't have cared about him less if they'd tried--he was just a meal ticket to them. He had changed residences beforehand and briefly went to school from his new address.
At first, it seemed quite normal, as he went about his day just as most other teens would. After a few weeks though, when he was going to be a high school junior, his time in school came to an abrupt end and he essentially stopped leaving his home. Thereafter, among other things, he spray painted plywood planks brought to him by his foster parents (they'd end up burning them in their backyard). Apparently he did the spray painting to show he was a tough gang-banger.
As a result of his lack of a social filter, he did reveal to neighbors (in bits) what I suspect helped lead to the end of his schooling: he had tried to make his way into a local gang at the high school. Surprisingly, the gang had been uninterested in having an autistic as part of their number. The autist didn't take the news very well and after some time got into a fight with one of the gang members. As this beating had happened on his way from school and involved its students, the schools' disciplinarians had jurisdiction and took action on dealing the consequences for it; both were expelled for gang activity and fighting. The autist was pleased to not have to go to school anymore and was all too happy to drop out of society. (For their part, the foster parents were happy with this too.)
Considering how special education kids can affect test scores and thereby funding, I tend to suspect that the school district had probably been hoping to to throw guys like him under the bus--with the fight being an opportunity for them to wash their hands of him and write him off. Since the expulsion (which was ~2009 or so), the autist (or rather--his foster parents) has relied on his SSDI check for money; according to what neighbors have been told, it's about $800/month.
At first, it seemed quite normal, as he went about his day just as most other teens would. After a few weeks though, when he was going to be a high school junior, his time in school came to an abrupt end and he essentially stopped leaving his home. Thereafter, among other things, he spray painted plywood planks brought to him by his foster parents (they'd end up burning them in their backyard). Apparently he did the spray painting to show he was a tough gang-banger.
As a result of his lack of a social filter, he did reveal to neighbors (in bits) what I suspect helped lead to the end of his schooling: he had tried to make his way into a local gang at the high school. Surprisingly, the gang had been uninterested in having an autistic as part of their number. The autist didn't take the news very well and after some time got into a fight with one of the gang members. As this beating had happened on his way from school and involved its students, the schools' disciplinarians had jurisdiction and took action on dealing the consequences for it; both were expelled for gang activity and fighting. The autist was pleased to not have to go to school anymore and was all too happy to drop out of society. (For their part, the foster parents were happy with this too.)
Considering how special education kids can affect test scores and thereby funding, I tend to suspect that the school district had probably been hoping to to throw guys like him under the bus--with the fight being an opportunity for them to wash their hands of him and write him off. Since the expulsion (which was ~2009 or so), the autist (or rather--his foster parents) has relied on his SSDI check for money; according to what neighbors have been told, it's about $800/month.
That experience has left me to suspect special education can work only if the relevant individual is willing to try making it work and the guardians get behind the effort and push for its success. As neither were happening here, this guy was doomed. I doubt he'll do anything meaningful with his life and that's unfortunate.
- Registrado
- 5 de Ene, 2015
I was among the Edwards.
I was overqualified for the most part, but due to my growth pattern I started to develop random bouts of anxiety that affected my focus on work. It was either the Autism, or just classic juvenile onset anxiety.
Thing is I still feel the same degree of anxiety at twenty-five. I would feel like walking out of a certain spot I loitered around if one or two happened to have passed by at random.
This affected my work because getting documents printed (I did a lot of work electronically), I would have errors in my sentence articulation without noticing it. I didn't notice specific errors on time due to being distracted.
A therapist confirmed it was not ADD because I could make eye contact in certain environments versus others. I tried my best to use tasteful language and a mature vocabulary, that did help with the anxiety bit.
Perhaps my worst tick was mumbling to myself as I calculated thoughts, coupled with of course anxiety. It bothered teachers I stood next to, no surprise.
I was overqualified for the most part, but due to my growth pattern I started to develop random bouts of anxiety that affected my focus on work. It was either the Autism, or just classic juvenile onset anxiety.
Thing is I still feel the same degree of anxiety at twenty-five. I would feel like walking out of a certain spot I loitered around if one or two happened to have passed by at random.
This affected my work because getting documents printed (I did a lot of work electronically), I would have errors in my sentence articulation without noticing it. I didn't notice specific errors on time due to being distracted.
A therapist confirmed it was not ADD because I could make eye contact in certain environments versus others. I tried my best to use tasteful language and a mature vocabulary, that did help with the anxiety bit.
Perhaps my worst tick was mumbling to myself as I calculated thoughts, coupled with of course anxiety. It bothered teachers I stood next to, no surprise.
Holy crap. :powerlevel:
- Registrado
- 10 de Jun, 2015
One point I'd like to make which has been mentioned before but I'll elaborate on it: if you group people together with learning disabilities, behavioural disorders and intellectual disabilities with differing severity and have them all come from all kinds of different locales and upbringings and have most of them be male, I guarantee you that if that's all a kid's provided with as a school environment...
CHAOS. WILL. ENSUE.
CHAOS. WILL. ENSUE.
I don't think I even managed to make many friends there that weren't already from the PREVIOUS special school I went to, save for a few I still keep in touch with. I've managed to make more friends & acquaintances in college than at the 2nd special school I went to.
Naturally, this is from personal experience but I'd rather not talk about it. Still, some of the teachers were absolutely cool, and I mean way more cool than your average teacher in a non-special school. I made some genuine friends that I always enjoy spending time with, at the very least, and the school did see sense and mainstream me when I were a young teenager so I avoided the worst of it. Just goes to show there's a silver lining to every cloud I guess
Naturally, this is from personal experience but I'd rather not talk about it. Still, some of the teachers were absolutely cool, and I mean way more cool than your average teacher in a non-special school. I made some genuine friends that I always enjoy spending time with, at the very least, and the school did see sense and mainstream me when I were a young teenager so I avoided the worst of it. Just goes to show there's a silver lining to every cloud I guess
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- Registrado
- 27 de Mayo, 2013
I needed special education.
Of course, much later in life, I learned "Need" was only present tense. Fuck special education,
Of course, much later in life, I learned "Need" was only present tense. Fuck special education,
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- 6 de Mar, 2016
- Registrado
- 29 de Nov, 2015
In my opinion, based on my own experiences in public schools and their special education/IEP system, the system needs a complete overhaul.
Not sure if this is powerleveling, but all I had was ADHD. I've probably mentioned it here a few times before, but that's beside the point.
Because of my ADHD, I had special requirements set up by my parents to help me succeed. I was placed in small classes, which was probably the worst thing they could do.
Why?
Because I was lumped into a small classroom with 4 or 5 other kids who had even worse issues. I'm talking mental retardation, cerebral palsey--kids who actually needed as much help as they could get. I didn't fit in; I just had a minor learning disability that affected my attention span.
The issue is that public schools don't consider each child's disabilities, and they don't separate them based on their specific needs. They just put them all into one or two classes together and hope to God that it will work out.
I do believe that special education is a necessity for those who are less fortunate developmentally. They should be able to have the opportunity to learn valuable social skills and vocational skills so they can at least be productive members of society when they grow older.
However, the public school system really needs to look over their process for putting them in special classes.
Not sure if this is powerleveling, but all I had was ADHD. I've probably mentioned it here a few times before, but that's beside the point.
Because of my ADHD, I had special requirements set up by my parents to help me succeed. I was placed in small classes, which was probably the worst thing they could do.
Why?
Because I was lumped into a small classroom with 4 or 5 other kids who had even worse issues. I'm talking mental retardation, cerebral palsey--kids who actually needed as much help as they could get. I didn't fit in; I just had a minor learning disability that affected my attention span.
The issue is that public schools don't consider each child's disabilities, and they don't separate them based on their specific needs. They just put them all into one or two classes together and hope to God that it will work out.
I do believe that special education is a necessity for those who are less fortunate developmentally. They should be able to have the opportunity to learn valuable social skills and vocational skills so they can at least be productive members of society when they grow older.
However, the public school system really needs to look over their process for putting them in special classes.
- Registrado
- 11 de Dic, 2016
To be quite frank, the state is terrible at actually regulating these places properly. There's this law in America where if you're exceptional enough or have mental illnesses that make it impossible for you to be in public school, the state or the school district have to foot tuition for you to go to a 'theraputic school.' But then shit like the state inspectors only inspecting shit with phone calls happen, which make it super easy to sweep stuff under the rug. Usually these schools are rife with mishandled restraints, which is particularly dangerous because mishandled restraints can kill a kid through postural asphyxiation. You also get medication dispensation errors, which can be hospital-worthy mistakes, as well as your more 'run of the mil'l physical, sexual, and emotional/verbal abuse.
https://www.propublica.org/series/restraints this is about restraint death in children in theraputic care in general
https://eye.necir.org/2016/08/16/chamberlain/ A theraputic school in MA being investigated for abuse, also misappropriation of funds and tax shit.
eta a whole goddamn sentence I fatfingered somehow
S
SU 390
Guest
kiwifarms.net
It is as if they want children with mental developmental issues to be setup for failure.
- Registrado
- 11 de Dic, 2016
Not even that, there's people in these facilities who aren't exceptional per se but just have some sort of mental illness that makes it impossible for them to be in school, like if you're experiencing some sort of frequent episodes and keep flipping chairs they won't keep you in public school. You wanna know how many kids get fucked up even worse by abuse at these places? And then they move on to bigger and better fucking awful group homes.
But the more kids who fail, the more money they get.
- Registrado
- 31 de Ago, 2015
I was put in SE as a 1st grader for displaying "uncharacteristic aggression," ie being a roughhousing bully. Teachers thought I was seriously too "physical" for a girl. My academics were good, even great, and I followed adults' instructions just fine but I was honestly too physically aggressive to be around. 'Course, once I got it drilled in my head that other kids don't like getting bit and that I couldn't just tackle kids without consent, I got put back in regular classses.
Svirfneblin
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 17 de Mar, 2017
Special Education is necessary for dealing with students who are both disruptive to the regular learning environment of the abled, and for teaching them at a pace better suited to their needs, with hands-on assistance. The fact of the matter is that these people exist, and it has been shown time and time again that even one highly disruptive student in a classroom can lower the grade average for everyone else.
The stigma of Sped comes from people thinking it means that it's for mouth-breathing, drooling autists or sperglords who twitch out and scream in the middle of class. In truth, it's aimed at simply anyone with any type of disability that requires special attention (blindness, deafness, autism, etc.) or people with a complete inability to focus on the lesson at hand (confrontational students, loud students, bullying students, etc.)
Source: I volunteered to assist special needs students throughout high school, and my mother is a teaching assistant for said students.