Sherlock Holmes - It's just elementary that he should have a thread

[skykiii]

We needed a proper Sherlock Holmes topic, and I thought I should create one.

I've been into Sherlock again thanks to finding out Tubi has the Jeremy Brett TV series (which is the best adaptation ever) along with a lot of... weird stuff, like this one movie that looks like a student film (Sherlock Holmes and the Shadow Watchers).

I've been a fan of Conan Doyle's stories since I was 10, in fact they're what caused me to grow out of reading Goosebumps and into "real" books (pretentious as that sounds now). Every once in awhile I see other Holmes media in bookstores and DVD shelves that I get curious about... moreso the literature.

In general, what's ya'lls experience with Sherlock Holmes books/stories that aren't by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle? Have any been actually good? Has there ever been one that was just horrible?

 

[Daddy's Angry Juice]

In general, what's ya'lls experience with Sherlock Holmes books/stories that aren't by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle? Have any been actually good? Has there ever been one that was just horrible?

Im only familiar with the books because I grew up reading them, really good reads IMO. I do know a bit about the Benedict Cucumber series because I used to troll the fans on Tumblr to the point that they started sending me death threats, good times.

 

[User names must be unique]

I used to troll the fans on Tumblr to the point that they started sending me death threats, good times.

That never took much tbh, you just had to say Elementary was a better Sherlock TV show and you'd get hordes of retards doing their best evil villain threats in your inbox.

Elementary was better than Sherlock but it was still slop.

 

[Miriam Margoyles]

If you like Lovecraftian horror, there's A Study In Emerald, by famous Jewish serial rapist, Neil Gaiman, which I did quite enjoy, but mainly for the way he described Queen Victoria.

James Lovegrave did a mash-up series of books, The Cthulhu Casebooks, with Holmes and Watson investigating supernatural cases, featuring the Old Ones and shoggoths and cults and suchlike.



They're a lot of fun, I think I enjoyed Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Miskatonic Monstrosities the most. The Sussex Sea-Devils is probably my least favourite, because once the twist is revealed, I feel like the story moves into territory I wasn't really interested in. I signed up for one thing, and it did another, and I didn't really like it, but your mileage may vary.

My one criticism of the series as a whole, though is

Spoiler

It's always Moriarty. Every. Single. Time. I hate it in Sherlock Holmes adaptations where Moriarty is like the fucking Joker or something - the architect of all Holmes' pain, pulling all the strings behind the scenes as part of some massive overarching superscheme. That nigger was in TWO fucking stories. Come up with a new, cool criminal mastermind from your own imagination!

 

[Judge Holden]

Gotta be honest with you niggers....and I genuinely wish I was joking here....the only Sherlock Holmes media I have ever actually consoomed to completion was The Great Mouse Detective

On the plus side it means when I do eventually sneed the OG books I will be going in effectively blind and unspoiled

 

[Miriam Margoyles]

The Great Mouse Detective

The Great Mouse Detective is good, though. It's considered one of the lesser works of the animated Disney canon, but it's still beautifully animated, has some wonderful character designs (I'm especially fond of Fidget, who is equal parts terrifying and actually strangely cute, bless his little heart!), and I think you can tell Vincent Price is having an absolute ball playing the villain.

I only wish they hadn't cucked out and had Basil actually die at the end, falling off of Big Ben doing battle with Ratigan, ala Reichanbach Falls. Also, the weird furry burlesque shit in the middle. That should've been cut.

 

[Womble of Wimbledon]

The best non-Doyle take on Sherlock Holmes in my opinion is the video game Sherlock Holmes: The Awakened. The original came out in 2006 and was good for its time but Frogwares remade it in 2023 and did a very good job.

It is basically Sherlock Holmes vs the Cthulhu cult and it is like a wet dream for fans of both Lovecraft and Sherlock Holmes.

I also enjoyed the first Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes movie, but I haven't seen it since it came out in theatres.

 

[oldTireWater]

If it weren't for the cocaine, morphine, and ether he'd be a bit of a Mary Sue.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

Jeremy Brett TV series (which is the best adaptation ever)

This is correct.

If you are into Holmes and Brett and have more dollars than sense, Bending the Willow is necessary. It is a very good study of Brett's version of Holmes and the production of the show.

Here (YouTube) is one of Brett's best episodes. This one has it all, even Inspector Lestrade and a disguise.

Also that early intro. This is before they edited the opening title to cut out the guy that missed his cue. When you see it.

It's always Moriarty. Every. Single. Time.

Sometimes I wonder if Colonel Moran came up as often as he did because Doyle couldn't bring himself to make Moriarty a pathetic loser.

 

[Miriam Margoyles]

Does everybody know the Marvel Comics incarnation of Sherlock Holmes?

Spoiler

He was Mystique, all along, apparently.

 

[Commander Suzdal]

None of the Sherlock Holmes stories other people wrote are as good as Doyle's, but I enjoyed Nicholas Meyer's The Seven Per Cent Solution (Watson tries to get Holmes to kick his cocaine habit, while getting embroiled in another case) and Dan Simmon's The Fifth Heart (Holmes comes to America and solves a case involving real historical figures and places).

Literary author Michael Chabon wrote a Holmes novel called The Final Solution, set during World War II - Holmes rescues a Jewish refugee boy's parrot, and for some reason there's a black Anglican vicar running around England. Again, this is set during WWII. Unless you're morbidly curious about this kind of forced diversity, skip it.

Stephen King wrote a short story about Holmes, "The Doctor's Case" - it's in his Nightmares and Dreamscapes collection.

 

[Preacher ✝]

Almost all of the old Basil Rathbone movies are public domain and available on YouTube.

Playlist Link

 

[Steve Martin Short]

I quite enjoyed Fred Sanerhagen's "Sherlock Holmes vs. Dracula". Holmes enters the story when someone brings him the strangeness about the Demeter, and he and Van Helsing have a few pointed encounters. Holmes and Watson stay on the periphery of the novel's events, so half the fun is them figuring out what we already know.

Much less enjoyable was one by some other author teaming Holmes and Professor Challenger up against the Martians from War of the Worlds. I gave up very early on, when the detective started making out with his steady girlfriend, a much younger than usual Mrs. Hudson.

Has anyone seen the late 90's cartoon Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century?

 

[obsdj]

the Jeremy Brett TV series (which is the best adaptation ever)

I'm just here to back you up on this. Jeremy Brett was THE PERFECT Holmes and the best portrayal ever. That whole series was amazing, especially for the 80s. The sets, the costumes, the dialogue, everything was authentic and the faithfulness to the original stories was mind-blowing.

Billy Wilder's The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes was a fun romp. Christopher Lee as Mycroft was...something.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Psych is a very good implementation of the Holmes/Watson formula in the form of an early-2000s action comedy.

Also, if you don't mind reading subtitles, Lenfilm's Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson is actually a very solid, very faithful adaptation despite being made in the USSR. It's also free and clear on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9Wjfd0iI8ZrvDdSry_qXM_ald8_HrI9U

 

[Miriam Margoyles]

Stephen King wrote a short story about Holmes, "The Doctor's Case" - it's in his Nightmares and Dreamscapes collection.

Tim Curry reads the audiobook version and completely kills it, like he always does. I really wish he did more audiobooks.

Highly recommended, if you can track it down!

 

[Lone MacReady II]

Go watch the Granada collection. They're not all 10/10, stick to the vetted stories you know, but good lord those sets were quality.

 

[skykiii]

Has anyone seen the late 90's cartoon Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century?

I just now watched the first two episodes.

It was... amusing, to say the least.

The part I'm happiest about is

Spoiler

It teases that the villain is going to be Moriarty but then immediately reveals that's not the case.

I do find it funny animated versions always have to make Holmes more of an action hero type.

One element I was iffy about though was it making Holmes be all like "women as authority figures? You're kidding!" as if, you know, classic Holmes didn't already serve under a Queen. But I'm guessing this was just because it was the 1990s and they wanted to give Holmes an arc. His whole thing with being rude to the robot worked a bit better.

 

[TurboNAS]

Jeremy Brett TV series (which is the best adaptation ever) along

Brett was rude and shouty at Mrs. Hudson. That knocks him out of the top spot.

Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce are my favorites for Holmes and Watson. It’s a joy hearing Rathbone’s impeccable diction and I don’t mind that Bruce is a goofball.

Jeremy Brett did an excellent job but his rudeness is intolerable. Literary Holmes was always a gentleman.

For expanded stories the New Adventures of Sherlock Holmes radio series is wonderful. Most of the episodes are Rathbone and Bruce but a handful of the later ones have a new Holmes after Basil left the show. Sponsored by Petri Wines!

The Iron Box, Moonlight in the Casbah and loads of other stories are adapted from notes Conan Doyle left in the literature or made up out of whole cloth. Holmes is brilliant and Watson is steadfast and often bumbles into something that gives the answer. It’s a tremendously fun pairing of actors.

Elementary was okay for a couple seasons but it wallowed in misery and that killed the fun for me.

The Cumberbatch Sherlock series was an interesting adaptation in the first season and went way up its own butt later on. Same problem with this Holmes as Brett but worse. He’s a sociopathic narcissist that is deliberately cruel to people because he thinks he’s so smart. That sucked the air out of the room as time and again he takes advantage of the nice mortuary lady and is mean to everyone that tries to put up with him. Martin Freeman was decent as Watson.

I’ve got an audiobook version of the Blue Carbuncle and The Golden Pince-Nez starring Sir Ralph Richardson and Sir John Gielgud. They’re great actors but there’s so little contrast between their voices they might as well be the same character.

Holmes is a classic character and it’s neat seeing him pop up in books and movies even if they aren’t tied to the literary canon.

 

[skykiii]

Bumping this because I have a question.

In The Valley of Fear (original novel), near the beginning, there's this exchange between Holmes and Watson:

WATSON: The great Moriarty, as famous among criminals as--
HOLMES: My blushes, Watson!
WATSON: I was about to say, as he is unknown to the public.

Holmes compliments Watson's humor here. And I've read some other places that do so as well.

But, ummm.... what's the joke? What did Holmes think Watson was going to say? Every possibility I've conjured doesn't really justify Holmes' response. ("as famous as Sherlock Holmes himself" is the first one I came up with but again, doesn't really justify Holmes' reaction).

So yeah, please, explain the joke to me. The only other thing I can fathom is maybe Holmes assumed the follow-up would be about opium dens or whore-houses but again, those don't quite work.