Crime Reproduction without pregnancy: would it really emancipate women? - Be born in a pod, live in a pod, eat bugs


It may sound far-fetched, but a breakthrough in Israel has brought us a step closer to creating artificial wombs for humans.

A team of Israeli scientists announced the mother of all inventions last week. Researchers from the Weizmann Institute of Science revealed in the journal Nature that they had successfully gestated hundreds of mice inside an artificial womb. They placed newly fertilised eggs inside glass vials rotating in a ventilated incubator, and grew the embryos for 11 days – the mid-point of a mouse pregnancy – outside their mothers’ bodies. The embryos developed normally; their hearts, visible through the glass vials, pounded steadily at 170 beats per minute.

The mice were no bigger than sunflower seeds, but what they represent is enormous: the breakthrough brings us one step closer to reproduction without pregnancy. The division of labour in gestation is the most intractable imbalance between the sexes. Men only have to contribute a single cell to make a baby, whereas women carry their children for nine months and give birth, sometimes risking their bodies and often risking their careers, in a world of work built largely by men. An artificial womb would mean complete reproductive parity between the sexes: all anyone needs to do is throw in their gametes and the rest is taken care of. But this equality could come at great cost to women. This is radically disruptive technology, and with every new development we are sleepwalking into a world of tough ethical choices.

The idea of babies grown in jars may conjure up images of the hatchery of Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World or the foetus fields of The Matrix, but scientists have been trying to make it happen for decades. In 1992, Japanese researchers had some success growing goats inside rubber sacs. In 2017, researchers at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) revealed they had grown lamb foetuses in plastic bags from the equivalent of around halfway through a typical ewe pregnancy to full term. In 2019, Dutch researchers received a €2.9m (£2.6m) grant from the EU to develop an artificial womb that would use replicas of human babies dotted with sensors before being deployed in hospitals.

The scientists behind these innovations are motivated by noble intentions: they want to save the most vulnerable human beings on the planet by improving outcomes for super-premature babies, or to understand early gestation, and why so many pregnancies end in miscarriage. Artificial wombs offer a window on to the closed world of embryonic development, so the reasons it might go wrong can be studied in real time. They allow the process of gestation to continue outside the body, so that babies born too soon no longer have to face the high risk of disability and chronic illness associated with extreme prematurity. It is hard to argue that something with such potential to save lives shouldn’t exist.

But artificial wombs could also undermine the basis of women’s reproductive rights and freedoms. In England, Scotland and Wales, the abortion limit is pegged to the viability of foetuses outside the human body; it’s currently set at 24 weeks’ gestation because foetuses at an earlier stage of development aren’t expected to be able to survive outside the womb. What if all foetuses, and even embryos, are potentially viable because they could be gestated inside an artificial womb? Any unborn child could be considered to have a right to life.

In countries where abortion is legal, access to it derives from a woman’s right to choose what happens to her body. But if unwanted babies could be “rescued” by technology – gestated inside an artificial womb and then given up for adoption – then abortion could be simultaneously pro-choice and “pro-life”. Why should a mother be able to decide to terminate an unwanted baby if an artificial womb can save its life?

This technology has been developed in order to rescue the world’s most vulnerable babies. It’s not so much of a conceptual leap to imagine that babies gestating inside the wombs of women who drink, smoke, take drugs or engage in risky behaviour during pregnancy could be considered vulnerable and worthy of rescue in an artificial womb. In a culture where pregnant women are constantly scrutinised and judged, and the state has the sometimes contentiously used power to declare mothers unfit and take away their children, the threat of this technology will have enormous potential to coerce and control pregnant women.

Many tech and media companies, including Apple, Google, Facebook, VICE and Buzzfeed, already offer to cover the cost of freezing their employees’ eggs so they don’t have to worry about dwindling fertility during the most productive years for their careers. Gestating a baby in an artificial womb may one day be a choice open to elite women whose companies will pay for it, or who can afford to cover the cost themselves. “Natural” pregnancy could be seen as a sign of poverty, of unplanned pregnancy, or a chaotic lifestyle.

A full replacement for pregnancy may be decades away, but artificial wombs are coming sooner than you think. Right now there are teams of researchers across the globe working on competing systems to replicate the human womb. CHOP is in the process of getting the US Food and Drug Administration to approve trials of its “biobag” device with human babies, and other teams in Australia and Japan, are snapping at their heels.

The obstacles to growing humans outside the human body will be ethical and legal, not technological. We need to be discussing artificial wombs now, and the precautious, contingent basis of women’s reproductive rights, before this technology arrives in our hospitals and fertility clinics.
 
I guess this will probably be used to eventually stabilize the populations of first world countries.

[Insert joke about Jews and women here]
 
be overrun by other cultures and peoples
That's the point of the false demographic collapse narrative though.

Not that demographic collapse isn't a thing, it's false that immigration is the only solution. Even without artificial wombs a wind down of population could be a good thing.
 
The entire point would be to stabilize the own demographic development and not be overrun by other cultures and peoples.

Which also means that focusing this question just on women is wrong-headed, but sort of to be expected from modern online journalism, of course.
Could be pretty interesting if having your baby born out of a artifical womb interferes bonding with the child, could have some pretty epic parental abuse numbers if everyone is effectively a step parent
 
I'm almost certain that The Guardian has put out articles on this a couple years ago, it's nice to see they're being consistent on covering it.

The entire point would be to stabilize the own demographic development and not be overrun by other cultures and peoples.

Which also means that focusing this question just on women is wrong-headed, but sort of to be expected from modern online journalism, of course.
Artificial wombs aren't exactly being developed with population stabilisation in mind, the intention behind it is aiding at-risk babies.
 
artificial womb would be a disaster for women, it would remove the only thing men really NEED them for which is reproduction and family.

right now a woman can get pregnant completely on her own without a man in her life in any way. get knocked up by a random one night stand who'll never see her again, or just go to a sperm bank, and she's good to go.
with artificial wombs, this would suddenly work in the other direction as well. MGTOWs and related redpill lunatics have been fantasizing about artificial wombs and the womanless future they'd enable for years.

the forces in power recognize and know this though, so it will never be allowed to make it to market in a way that is accessible to the general population.
 
/pol/ occasionally has threads about AI robots and does memes about them. FFS that cesspool /b/ has threads about those love dolls that look like one or two steps away from being lifelike.
Get super hottie DNA. Mix it with your own or whatever DNA you want. Make super babies.
Your wife / companion is the AI, your child is real.
Women become a complete waste in your life. They'll be flashing their sagging a / b cups as their own form of protest like usual at the steps of the capital to ban all of this to they don't have to retreat to harry pooter and twilight novels while intoxicated with bottle twelve of boxed / bagged wine while eating fast food alone with their cats.
Above may sound bitter, but it's putting the pieces together not for a societal collapse, but a reshaping. Women are completely unnecessary when you can program a loving companion and continue the human race without them. No more bitching about pregnancy.
No more bitching at all. No dehumanizing of regular or lower guys just trying to have a normal life.
If I were a slag, I'd be terrified about this. Those incels and such would be pointing their bony fingers at mean spirited roasties saying, "We don't need you," and they would be right.
I delightfully wait on the sidelines to see the fallout from this.
 
If the child isn't born from a human does that make it some sort of flesh homunculus? Imagine sharing genetic information just so it could be developed by a soulless, artificial construct only to show up to pick up your meatbaby when it's ready.
 
Could be pretty interesting if having your baby born out of a artifical womb interferes bonding with the child, could have some pretty epic parental abuse numbers if everyone is effectively a step parent
My reply was going to be along the same lines, there is a hell of a lot of missing information in these types of stories. They just want to gloss over the actual importance of a baby growing in an actual human body and everything that goes along with it, like the process that happens during child birth. There is a reason c-sections should never be given as a choice.

They have already seen the difference Covid restrictions have made on mothers being able to give birth by themselves (with partner only), there have been less complications during delivery, mothers are happier and settle better. Amazing that the stories (the real ones anyway) on all the justno subs on reddit, that are actually being proven true.

There is a lot about the female body and processes that hasn't been completely figured out, thanks to the male dominated science arenas. Now I'm not bagging out men in the slightest, you can't argue with fact though. Women were considered property for so long that the medical community didn't even consider studying them, as such, there is so much we are only just starting to understand, about how different females are from males.
 
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/pol/ occasionally has threads about AI robots and does memes about them. FFS that cesspool /b/ has threads about those love dolls that look like one or two steps away from being lifelike.
Get super hottie DNA. Mix it with your own or whatever DNA you want. Make super babies.
Your wife / companion is the AI, your child is real.
Women become a complete waste in your life. They'll be flashing their sagging a / b cups as their own form of protest like usual at the steps of the capital to ban all of this to they don't have to retreat to harry pooter and twilight novels while intoxicated with bottle twelve of boxed / bagged wine while eating fast food alone with their cats.
Above may sound bitter, but it's putting the pieces together not for a societal collapse, but a reshaping. Women are completely unnecessary when you can program a loving companion and continue the human race without them. No more bitching about pregnancy.
No more bitching at all. No dehumanizing of regular or lower guys just trying to have a normal life.
If I were a slag, I'd be terrified about this. Those incels and such would be pointing their bony fingers at mean spirited roasties saying, "We don't need you," and they would be right.
I delightfully wait on the sidelines to see the fallout from this.
The article is about artificial wombs, not artificial eggs. Egg donors are going to continue to get top dollar for their eggs until science cracks that particular problem, and I'm not holding my breath there.
 
Dubious. It's just test tube mice now, but if someone figures out how to transplant naturally conceived humans then we can have a new model of adoption where instead of birthing the baby then giving it up, you shove it in the artificial womb to give it up months earlier.

If we hit that point then your screams of "my body my choice" will become transparent calls for murder, you can't even say that pregnancy is long and hard and that's why you won't put the baby up for adoption.

Also : I thought babies were still listening to their moms and dads while in the womb, so they could identify their voices. I wonder how fucked up they'll be if all they hear is white noise instead.
 
Also : I thought babies were still listening to their moms and dads while in the womb, so they could identify their voices. I wonder how fucked up they'll be if all they hear is white noise instead.
It's an alarming thought. A foetus' entire environment is another human being. The mother's heart beats however times a minute throughout its entire development. A woman often finds she can't eat certain foods while she's pregnant because the baby doesn't like it and kicks the shit out of her. You can create a psychopath just by denying a baby cuddles and eye contact for vital early months of its life. What type of monster will you end up with if you deny a baby its mother's heartbeat during gestation?
 
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