/r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

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H3H3 Podcast Higlights dijo:
This is gonna sound controversial but I think PDX should get rid of PP and Army XP and replace it with popularity. Experience points for me sounds way too RPG for me.
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You already have popularity as a way to represent political strength of movements and that's been part of the series since 3 at least by my recollection. I think it's good at doing what it does. Earlier HOI games didn't have "mana" the way modern Paradox games have but instead had various other currencies that you could spend domestically or internally. You might want to try out HOI3 for an example of a game that had several less abstract currencies to manage and see if you like it.

Don't think there's any reason to replace XP though. Experience is a very real measure of progress and something that would accumulate as a result of combat engagement and military drills. While your preferred level of complexity is always a subjective thing I don't think there's a reason to fix something that isn't broke just because the term's used a lot in different games. I think the issue is instead that how you use XP can be pretty gamey. Again, you might like it more in 3 where practical field experience was something that mostly boosted research if I recall correctly. If your army was out in the field a lot then research into doctrines and the types of units you fought with would be sped up. That could be a deeper and more realistic way of applying the concept instead of having you effectively buy perks.
 
Messiah Mike dijo:
What’s it with you and indians man?
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I am one.
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Happy Camper dijo:
You already have popularity as a way to represent political strength of movements and that's been part of the series since 3 at least by my recollection. I think it's good at doing what it does. Earlier HOI games didn't have "mana" the way modern Paradox games have but instead had various other currencies that you could spend domestically or internally. You might want to try out HOI3 for an example of a game that had several less abstract currencies to manage and see if you like it.

Don't think there's any reason to replace XP though. Experience is a very real measure of progress and something that would accumulate as a result of combat engagement and military drills. While your preferred level of complexity is always a subjective thing I don't think there's a reason to fix something that isn't broke just because the term's used a lot in different games. I think the issue is instead that how you use XP can be pretty gamey. Again, you might like it more in 3 where practical field experience was something that mostly boosted research if I recall correctly. If your army was out in the field a lot then research into doctrines and the types of units you fought with would be sped up. That could be a deeper and more realistic way of applying the concept instead of having you effectively buy perks.
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If they should remove any XP, It would be command points. One because command points shortened is CP, which is fucking weird to type, and two because a lot of its functions can just be rolled into PP and command points are just a bitch to get
 
Messiah Mike dijo:
If they should remove any XP, It would be command points. One because command points shortened is CP, which is fucking weird to type, and two because a lot of its functions can just be rolled into PP and command points are just a bitch to get
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Spending political capital to get someone to be better prepared for an attack or improve your military leaders just makes less sense than having your military command itself play into it.
 
Foundinglaunderer dijo:
Lavader you are literally a bosnian turk roach who larps as habsburg... kindly stfu for all of us
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That was an X screenshot.


Also, what’s so bad about a 3D world strategy game?

Happy Camper dijo:
Spending political capital to get someone to be better prepared for an attack or improve your military leaders just makes less sense than having your military command itself play into it.
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Regardless, less abstractions of how you wield political and military control would be better. Your ideas of currencies and training is indeed very interesting to me. I think scaling certain pros and cons of a decision and picking your cabinet based on certain factors rather than using PP as representation gives the game much more depth. Also, I think training and theorists could help develop divisions and doctrines. Lastly, I also believe charging money for new blueprints would be a good idea. Let me know if this is retarded or not.
 
H3H3 Podcast Higlights dijo:
Regardless, less abstractions of how you wield political and military control would be better. Your ideas of currencies and training is indeed very interesting to me. I think scaling certain pros and cons of a decision and picking your cabinet based on certain factors rather than using PP as representation gives the game much more depth. Also, I think training and theorists could help develop divisions and doctrines. Lastly, I also believe charging money for new blueprints would be a good idea. Let me know if this is retarded or not.
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the idea of charging money is a good one imo, Hoi4s economy system is really simplistic and you can basically build a billion factories in the middle of nowhere without it costing a single cent. No wonder why so many hoi4 players become communists, it’s econ system is basically a communist utopia.

Private industry doesn’t set up factories without player input and the economy practically grinds to a halt the second the player stops building civs or mils. Having to actually balance the economy so your country can have consistent production of war materiel seems like a good idea
 
H3H3 Podcast Higlights dijo:
Regardless, less abstractions of how you wield political and military control would be better. Your ideas of currencies and training is indeed very interesting to me. I think scaling certain pros and cons of a decision and picking your cabinet based on certain factors rather than using PP as representation gives the game much more depth. Also, I think training and theorists could help develop divisions and doctrines. Lastly, I also believe charging money for new blueprints would be a good idea. Let me know if this is retarded or not.
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I really think think you should try out HOI3 if you haven't. It used money as a resource too and a lot of the concepts you seem interested in are represented there. It's a fun game, probably the most autistic one Paradox ever made.
 
Messiah Mike dijo:
the idea of charging money is a good one imo, Hoi4s economy system is really simplistic and you can basically build a billion factories in the middle of nowhere without it costing a single cent. No wonder why so many hoi4 players become communists, it’s econ system is basically a communist utopia.

Private industry doesn’t set up factories without player input and the economy practically grinds to a halt the second the player stops building civs or mils. Having to actually balance the economy so your country can have consistent production of war materiel seems like a good idea
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TNO is one mod that kinda represents the economic system till you realize it’s all about debt maxing (Keynesianism, the gay pedophile liberals and socialists adore).

Whatever happened to Victoria 2 PDX?
 
Messiah Mike dijo:
8566fd4528251e37812a0c76d9d9545fd01dcd39.mov

I’m not even sure he’s even a monarchist anymore, he seems to come around to more reactionary modernist ideals so i’m not sure if he’s outright abandoned monarchism or he’s adopted the modernist variety of monarchism like imperial japan or iran
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the kempeitai or SAVAK would either see him as a useful idiot than dispose of him or blow his brains out for something he said online (dunno why text is emboldened bleh)​

 
Happy Camper dijo:
I really think think you should try out HOI3 if you haven't. It used money as a resource too and a lot of the concepts you seem interested in are represented there. It's a fun game, probably the most autistic one Paradox ever made.
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How does combat work? Does it have a battle plan system because I don’t really want to micro everything.
 
H3H3 Podcast Higlights dijo:
How does combat work? Does it have a battle plan system because I don’t really want to micro everything.
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Strictly speaking, any OOB below a theatre is optional, and theatres can be set to AI control to attack and defend whatever. It's not dissimilar to HOI4 conceptually but the strength bar is just manpower and IC (Industrial Capacity- the Civilian / Military Industrial divide is represented very differently) instead of specific equipment, and the soft / hard attack numbers are different. You don't have planning bonuses and the combat itself is a bit more oblique about what is going on. Supply is drawn from a line directly from your capital but there's no hub system to distribute it, just the infrastructure of the provinces. Fuel and crude oil are separate resources, and the rest of the resources are hard requirements for your industry to work instead of 'whoops, tee, your mills are a little less efficient'. You do get actual stockpiles of them though, unlike non-BLACKICE SOI4.

The caveat is that instead of just being a funny portrait or two you shove divisions into HOI3 has an actual OOB where you're expected (but not required) to create and manage every headquarters between a division and a theatre level command. In hoi3 that means Corps-Army-Army Group-theatre. Every stage but the Theatre has a cap of 5 units it can directly benefit. (Unlike HOI4, you cannot overassign non-theatre HQs.) Every layer of this has a leader for it, including invidual divisions. You also don't get a magic recruit leader button, you get the leaders your nation had at fixed dates. If you're playing Albania that means you get two dudes for the whole game. Also all the headquarters have limited ranges for how far they can spread leader bonuses varying with level. If you rely on the automation though there's a setting that the AI will just reassign shit as needed. Also every leader assignment can be automated and is by default, it's just VERY likely Rommel or someone else will end up in a dead-end garrison unit.

You can automate away most of the game as well if you want. That said the actual game has a stupid level of granularity around everything and the AI will suck.
 
Última edición:
How well does HOI4 represent divisions? Do countries really limit themselves into how many people they can shove into a meat grinder or it is PDX’s stupid insistence of “balancing” which gets ruined with their spirit mechanic (which just shows how lazy they are at representing the average attitude of the people).

local asuka dijo:
The caveat is that instead of just being a funny portrait or two you shove divisions into HOI3 has an actual OOB where you're expected (but not required) to create and manage every headquarters between a division and a theatre level command. In hoi3 that means Corps-Army-Army Group-theatre. Every stage but the Theatre has a cap of 5 units it can directly benefit. (Unlike HOI4, you cannot overassign non-theatre HQs.) Every layer of this has a leader for it, including invidual divisions. You also don't get a magic recruit leader button, you get the leaders your nation had at fixed dates. If you're playing Albania that means you get two dudes for the whole game. Also all the headquarters have limited ranges for how far they can spread leader bonuses varying with level. If you rely on the automation though there's a setting that the AI will just reassign shit as needed. Also every leader assignment can be automated and is by default, it's just VERY likely Rommel or someone else will end up in a dead-end garrison unit.
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I feel like now that HOI4 is going back to their roots a bit in terms of the previous game, radio should allow them to operate over longer distances.

local asuka dijo:
Fuel and crude oil are separate resources, and the rest of the resources are hard requirements for your industry to work instead of 'whoops, tee, your mills are a little less efficient'. You do get actual stockpiles of them though, unlike non-BLACKICE SOI4.
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Speaking of resources, would it be too complicated for HOI4 to acknowledge people need to eat? That’s like one of the major reasons Germany lost WW1 according to mainstream historians.
local asuka dijo:
Strictly speaking, any OOB below a theatre is optional, and theatres can be set to AI control to attack and defend whatever. It's not dissimilar to HOI4 conceptually but the strength bar is just manpower and IC (Industrial Capacity- the Civilian / Military Industrial divide is represented very differently) instead of specific equipment, and the soft / hard attack numbers are different. You don't have planning bonuses and the combat itself is a bit more oblique about what is going on. Supply is drawn from a line directly from your capital but there's no hub system to distribute it, just the infrastructure of the provinces.
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In addition to manpower and equipment, I think HOI4 should also represent the health of the soldiers, unless it’s all represented by organization. Having all of them blank slates is just commie nonsense.

AI really needs to improve on combat, starting with planning. No generals would just attack random provinces for shots and giggles. Too bad most of the player base did complain yet PDX does diddly squat about it.

Is supply represented well in this game? Do most governments at the time have a central supply hub where all the equipment, no matter how far away it was made, goes straight to the central hub and then dispersed?

Were adding focuses a good idea for HOI4? Sure it helped to represent your nation’s path, but it feels strangely restrictive. Maybe it’s just me but do leaders usually take around a month in order to attain one of their goals? Is that how politics work?

Honestly, I feel like HOI4 has a lot of wasted potential. The developers clearly have no actual idea on how to implement a system correctly and most of everything comes off really underbaked. It’s probably why peacetime feels really boring since you’re just waiting for war to happen. There should be more things to do like all the other PDX games.
 
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