Paganism vs Abrahamic Debates

[Do Not Touch Me Pls]

but ignore secular societies such as Soviet Russia or Maoist China who have done the same things on a grander scale? It seems like you fall into the same trap that OP does, which is putting the cart before the horse in regards to where your moral quandries lie.

I've mentioned it lots of times before, but Communism isn't actually secular. There is a faith. There is a singular figure of worship. There is a blatant disregard for human free will. There is a dualistic black and white, us vs them morality system. There is a demand for absolute obedience under the fear of death. It integrates itself into reality and erodes it. And it despises intellectuals, rival faiths, human nature and anyone with even a modicum of wealth and knowledge but itself. It is Abrahamic Religion in all but name.

This has nothing to do with what I said, You just quoted me and went on a completely different tangent. You commit the same genetic fallacy that OP does and don't even have the gall the try and give an answer other than to double down on that fallacy

My answer is that Abrahamic Religions don't work because they keep incorporating incompatible ideas and concepts into politics, common sense and reality. It would be fine if they just confined themselves in their churches/mosques, but it is very clear that historically this isn't the case.

Which is irrelevant to the point I was making. How are they similar? Saying they are cut from the same cloth means nothing if they often contradict each other or, in Islam's case, are not even remotely connected lineage-wise.

EDIT: But I also said "all of them believe that they are the best with no room for agument or leeway and have a very black and white view on things." What do you think will happen if a bunch of people with weapons, power and an uncompromisable, eternal ideological zeal are driven to kill and eat each other for their beliefs?

 

[Long Dong Silver 2025]

I've mentioned it lots of times before, but Communism isn't actually secular

What is secularism then if Communism isn't? How would you define secular in this regard, because it seems like you want to have it be religious in nature to avoid it's failings. Just because some aspects of communism can be twisted to look like religious faith does not mean it is therefore the same.

Abrahamic Religions don't work because they keep incorporating incompatible ideas and concepts into politics, common sense and reality. It would be fine if they just confined themselves in their churches, but it is very clear that historically this isn't the case.

Can you give an example of an idea that is incompatible with what you would consider "common sense" and "reality"?

Look at the paragraph after that.

You mean this one?

"all of them believe that they are the best with no room for agument or leeway and have a very black and white view on things".

That's an incredibly broad statement that can be applied to basically most, if not all, political thought.

In any case, I think you have to define what you mean by secularism, because it seems like you are lumping it in to poison the well here, as a means of trying to deflect from the failings of what were traditionally considered secular societies.

 

[Do Not Touch Me Pls]

What is secularism then if Communism isn't? How would you define secular in this regard, because it seems like you want to have it be religious in nature to avoid it's failings. Just because some aspects of communism can be twisted to look like religious faith does not mean it is therefore the same.

I don't know about you, but secularism definitely doesn't mean "if you wear glasses or know how to read english, welcome to the killing fields" or "Worship Chairman Mao as your father or die".

Can you give an example of an idea that is incompatible with what you would consider "common sense" and "reality"?

Killing intellectuals and leaving everyone illiterate, subservient farmers because "knowledge is a sin" and "God destroys the intelligent and frustrates the wise", likely also because people with a brain can call out their shit.

Treating women like trash because the Bible deems all women to be tainted by the "sin of eve" and are thus seductive whores (It's even worse in Islam by the way).

Prayers as the only "medical care" to all sorts of illnesses rather than medicine. Rome did have actual medicine even if their medical knowledge isn't perfect by all means, but the Medieval somehow ditched most, if not all of that for torture and prayers.

 

[Cherry Eyed Hamster]

As an aside, I will just say it always felt like lumping all Judaism, Christianity, and Islam into a single category like "Abrahamic" always felt like cop-out; even just a cursory look into them would show a pretty massive disparity on things like morals, archaeology, philosophy, and interpretation of scripture (especially Islam, which already has a very shaky history).

Having a debate of ‘Abrahamism vs Paganism’ is a rather confounding one to begin with. Abrahamic faiths are a group of religions that, while they ultimately have different concepts of divinity and philosophy, share a common ancestral connection (recognizing Abraham as the patriarchal ancestor who shared covenant with God); and grouping things together by association is a core component of comparative religious studies and studying any culture/region as a whole.

Meanwhile paganism is…a non-Abrahamic belief/faith/religion. That’s it. It can literally be anything from Native American shamanism to Hellenism to Norse paganism to African Vodou to New Age DIY eclectic fuck-all. If there’s going to be a Abrahamism vs Pagan debate, it would make much more sense to pick a particular group, like the Indo-European pagan religions, which can be grouped together through linguistical connections of deity names and cultural rites.

But with that said, foundations are still shaky because most pre-Christian/Judaic/Islamic faiths were scantily recorded. We have several myth cycles from various mythologies, but mythology isn’t religion itself, even if the Gods in the mythology were worshipped. Many pagan religions were also based on the climate, culture, and topography of the area it was practiced in. The Gods reflected the people worshipping them and provided answers regarding why the natural phenomena existed and behaved the way it did. We can analyze a culture just based on the kinds of gods worshipped. For example, Mycenaean Greek religion (from what we can tell) had mainly chthonic gods because they were a sea-faring people, and earthquakes and severe sea storms could easy devastate their fleets and flood their cities, so they prayed to gods of the deep earth to not strike them with such weather. The early Vedic religion of the Indo-Aryan peoples of India mostly revered sky deities because the Indo-Aryans were migratory charioteers, and while landscapes may change, the sun, moon, dawn, and stars still remain no matter where you go. They also had no ocean deity because they were in a landlocked area. It doesn’t make sense to worship these kinds of divinities in the modern era or identify as an ‘X Pagan’ because they belonged to a different culture and time.

A lot of paganism nowadays is farcical, there’s so little information for most of these beliefs to go off of that a lot of the people who identify as such simply make stuff up as they go along or read misinformation from a Llewelyn Wiccan book.

 

[Soycast II]

Abrahamic religions are Jewish political systems in disguise and comes from the same Jewish roots.

Low IQ anti-semites like yourself could turn even the most ardent anti-Semite into a Zionist. I would never be caught dead unironically believing in paganism when every right wing pagan online venerates Hitler to an almost homosexual degree and spends all their time going “lol Jewish roots or something lol I hate Jews lol”. The only worship they offer their “gods” is being the most fearsome keyboard warrior on the upper case I internet. Left wing pagans are no better by being schizos who think they can charge their crystals with moon powers. I have never seen a pagan online who isn’t obnoxious and I don’t think this is a coincidence. Do you know what the trend is with both of these groups? They both have a hate boner for Christianity to a comical level.

 

[Do Not Touch Me Pls]

Low IQ anti-semites like yourself could turn even the most ardent anti-Semite into a Zionist. I would never be caught dead unironically believing in paganism when every right wing pagan online venerates Hitler to an almost homosexual degree and spends all their time going “lol Jewish roots or something lol I hate Jews lol”. The only worship they offer their “gods” is being the most fearsome keyboard warrior on the upper case I internet. Left wing pagans are no better by being schizos who think they can charge their crystals with moon powers. I have never seen a pagan online who isn’t obnoxious and I don’t think this is a coincidence. Do you know what the trend is with both of these groups? They both have a hate boner for Christianity to a comical level.

Pagan larpers do not understand the true value of free thought.

It's not really Paganism that matters, but being able to speak freely and think for yourself for the most part with all the consequences it entails is STILL better than letting a bunch of cretins telling what you can't do under the fear of death.