NPD, BPD and other disorders

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Cherry Eyed Hamster dijo:
@Sailor Kim Jong Moon You might want to spoiler parts of your post since you’re referencing previous medical patients. You want to hide that PL and avoid getting hit with a HIPPA violation.
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I met the two I referenced outside of a clinical setting. Anything they shared was common knowledge to their social circle. I should spoiler for brevity probably at least though.
 
If the person with NPD, BPD, and the like take accountability for their actions, learn to have control of their emotions, and generally try to be functioning, decent human beings, then I don't really have a problem with them and I wish them all the luck in the world. They are doing what most people can't do because of their egos (which is admit fault, and change for the better.) It is tough, it will be lifelong, but it is needed and worth it.

There are some that are, really really bad and awful people and while it is sad that they developed this, it doesn't excuse their behaviour towards normal people.

I also think it exists as a spectrum, like autism. Like high-functioning ones and low-functioning ones. Ones that have and are AWARE of their symptoms and try to get help for it and others that are feral.

I also think, especially with western media, there are a lot of people normalising BPD/NPD behaviour (manipulation, guilt-tactics, etc) and it is horrifying to me. There is probably more sufferers than we realize because a lot of the time people don't seek to get diagnosed because they think they are normal!
 
MajinGoku dijo:
how hard is it for you to tell someone with aspergers from a cluster b and have you ever seen an overlap?
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Honestly? It’s very easy.

I’ve met some cluster b’s that were so neurotic and attention seeking that they certainly disregarded social norms without seemingly noticing. To that extent, I guess I can imagine or believe they could get an aspie diagnosis. For example: Luca Magnotta - the don’t fuck with cats guy. He was so histrionic that his behavior almost seemed autistic in the way it was devoid of social awareness.

I’ve seen cluster B’s break social convention to over share in a bid to get attention or affection (or medication…) Cluster B’s can also be really, really self absorbed. But instead of talking about a special interest (like Pokémon for 3 hours), they’ll tell you about their horrible anxiety and why they’re a victim of the world even when you’re uncomfortable and it’s not appropriate.

Watching a grown woman throw herself on the ground in a tantrum certainly can seem autistic. But it’s inauthentic compared to someone with autism head banging. It’s largely performative and a bid to influence others as opposed to sensory stimulation or self soothing.

For the most part, plain old Aspie’s have behavioral and physical quirks that give them away as plain old Aspie’s. They love sonic. Or math. They have an odd gait. They sperg about special interest even when it should be obvious no one wants to hear it. The spec interest is typically exterior to themselves (trains, history, math, dogs, etc. NOT a monologue about their feelings or past grievances.) They take things too literally or follow directions to a fault. None of these behaviors or traits signal “cluster b” at all.

Interestingly, neglect can manifest as autistic symptoms. Rocking back and forth/stimming, social awkwardness, sensory differences, and even poor rhythm and body movement. (For example, a neglected baby might not cry when you poke it with a pin.) We also know that neglect and abuse is a big factor in developing BPD. So maybe there’s more overlap in some traits for these reasons. Just spitballin’ here.

Edit: okay - one more weird overlap. Sex. Talking about sex inappropriately or obsessively. A less aware Aspie might talk about sexual stuff in weird ways or in an inappropriate context. I once had a lad share his home drawn, deviantart tier cartoon titty drawings at a professional development meeting. It was surprisingly not attention seeking at all. He was really that clueless.

Compare that to the cluster B who will talk loudly about how she’s the best at oral sex and obnoxiously signal her sexual availability. For example, a female patient trying to “hook up” with a male patient they just met on a psych ward floor. Or loudly discussing her intense orgasms in front of depressed elderly patients who are clearly grossed out. Happens way, way more often than you think. It’s not out of cluelessness. It’s an attempt to secure attention, affection. (lolcow Bex) And/or an unfortunate vestige of childhood sexual abuse.

I’ve met one person who definitely had some flavor of intellectual disability (not sure if Asperger’s. Don’t think so) who definitely demonstrated clear cluster B traits. Promiscuity, self harm, impulsivity - but also lower IQ. It’s harder to tell in that case if it’s really a personality disorder. It didn’t manifest to me as full BPD. Regardless, that person needed DBT and some form of life skills coaching at a level they can understand. And I don’t think that individual would be able to live fully independently anyway. They would be so easy to prey on and require some monitoring.

((Last thing so no one gets it confused. Someone with diminished cognition can definitely be promiscuous or sexually inappropriate without being cluster B. You will see that with dementia patients, for example. It’s not a tell all sign. ))
 
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Sorry for being a huge fucking FAGGOT crying and bitching and moaning. Still think NPDs, BPDs, and otherwise cluster Bs should all die alone. .

Don't let these fucks ruin your mental health.
 
People want to believe there's help out there for anyone with problems, especially if those problems were foisted upon them by an accident of their births. This is, unfortunately, not how it works in the real world.

I am close to (at least one) NPD cluster B person, and I work with (at least one) other. They are beyond help. They don't care that they cause trouble for other people in their lives, don't care that they actively hinder the functionality of their workplaces, and don't care about breaking any guideline, rule, or law to benefit themselves. They lie like they breathe, and, regardless of how intelligent they might be, their disorders make them bad at it. They get what they want by transgressing against other people, taking advantage of politeness and agreeableness and overcoming it with manipulation, intimidation, and, if necessary, aggression. They are an obnoxious and even dangerous burden to many of the people they cross paths with. Before modernity, they would have been thankfully disposed of by their tribes as soon as it was obvious what they were.

If you encounter such people, you have to stop thinking of them as human beings who can be helped or who deserve help. They don't operate on the same logic and "firmware." Your instincts will be wrong until you understand and accept this. Limit your exposure to them, and give them nothing in interactions with them. Ignoring them is the best course of action.
 
frozen_runner dijo:
People want to believe there's help out there for anyone with problems, especially if those problems were foisted upon them by an accident of their births. This is, unfortunately, not how it works in the real world.

I am close to (at least one) NPD cluster B person, and I work with (at least one) other. They are beyond help. They don't care that they cause trouble for other people in their lives, don't care that they actively hinder the functionality of their workplaces, and don't care about breaking any guideline, rule, or law to benefit themselves. They lie like they breathe, and, regardless of how intelligent they might be, their disorders make them bad at it. They get what they want by transgressing against other people, taking advantage of politeness and agreeableness and overcoming it with manipulation, intimidation, and, if necessary, aggression. They are an obnoxious and even dangerous burden to many of the people they cross paths with. Before modernity, they would have been thankfully disposed of by their tribes as soon as it was obvious what they were.

If you encounter such people, you have to stop thinking of them as human beings who can be helped or who deserve help. They don't operate on the same logic and "firmware." Your instincts will be wrong until you understand and accept this. Limit your exposure to them, and give them nothing in interactions with them. Ignoring them is the best course of action.
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This, this, this.
Cluster B and Sociopathy all have absent of shallow empathy.
 
I don't think BPDers can be helped. If you are inherently evil/bad nothing anyone can say will change your mind (including yourself). The best you can hope for in a BPD person is that they are older, lash out at themselves instead of others as a cope, and cut you off completely or for long periods of time to deal with the social fatigue of building a personality around you, or as a preemptive measure out of fear that they will inevitably destroy the relationship. Even in the best case scenario, they will still try to subconsciously socially isolate you so that you are more dependant on them and (hopefully) reflect the same kind of loyalty or love that they feel for you.
 
MainCharacterMan dijo:
I don't think BPDers can be helped. If you are inherently evil/bad nothing anyone can say will change your mind (including yourself)
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They are not all ‘inherently evil’, and BPD is probably the only Cluster B personality disorder that lessens in severity with age. It can also be treated with CBT and DBT therapy.
 
Cherry Eyed Hamster dijo:
They are not all ‘inherently evil’, and BPD is probably the only Cluster B personality disorder that lessens in severity with age. It can also be treated with CBT and DBT therapy.
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I was speaking more from their point of view.: "I know I'm a bad person and everyone else is too but are just deluding themselves"...how exactly do you treat a certainty in someone's mind? Accepting the treatment is the equivalent of taking the blue pill. You know it's B.S.

I also said knowing an older bpd person is best case scenario with the inference that they would have chilled out/already destroyed their lives by then.
 
I lost my job recently and it was devastating, and I was desperate enough to contact my mom after a year of NC.
The thing w my mom is that while she was always severely neglectful, she wasnt outright abusive until she got pregnant and stayed with her NPD boyfriend. But for the most part, she was/still is very mentally ill in the sense that she is psychotic. Like actually psychotic, she struggled with psychosis ever since she gave birth to my little brother. She "struggled" in a non-understanding way, as in she never gotten help.

Well apparently she gotten in contact with a church and finally found God, growing up it was a pagan household.
I plan on keeping my distance, though I am happy to talk to her and see shes at least trying to be supportive. And finding out my sister got in contact with her too is affirming as she seemingly used to hate my sister, since my sister was pretty open about her abuse and the abuse her boyfriend has caused all of us. I'm meeting with her tomorrow and idk, I guess Im kinda happy. I mean Ive been severely isolated for awhile. The most contact I had with people were my coworkers, now that I dont have a job Im just stuck with my NPD roomate, whom I havent told yet about losing my job but will no doubt have to tell him before Monday as I didnt go to work obviously for the past two days.

I know things wont magically turn to normal or that Ill have a happy loving family like Ive always wanted, but its something. Karma is a bitch. Her boyfriend got a colonoscopy, now has to wear a colonoscopy bag, and recently has had a hernia making it so that he now has to use a cane. Admittedly, that really brightened my mood upon hearing about it. This man tore our family apart, caused nothing but pain and misery to literally everything. A complete manchild who unironically obsessed over Marvel and would reference 4chan memes while being in his late 40s unemployed and living with his parents before living with my mom, whom he had his parents live with them too. While my mom is still with him, Im glad hes hurt. And I feel like my mom secretly feels the same way as a year prior she tried leaving him only for him to threaten her, saying he would take my little brother away due to her mental state.

My mom is struggling with her own physical issues which is a bit scary as we have a history of early death and heart issues for all the women in the family on her side, but nonetheless I just feel glad I reached out even if it was impulsive.
I hope Im not getting my hopes up. I dont know. My mom is hard to understand, theres a lot of red flags as she committed welfare fraud in my name before and there was a munchie by proxy situation when I was younger and stuck with her. But I dont think shes a truly malicious woman, just severely ill and kinda always has been as she had a fucked up childhood and adult life regarding stuff I wont go into detail over. She was willing to cut out everyone in her life and make herself miserable due to their dispproval toward her boyfriend. So seeing her actually hang out with a church and such is a good sign at least. Again, Im keeping my distance but its nice ti think I might not have to spend the holiday season alone-alone.

Idk, anyone else in a similar boat? My mom was abusive, no doubt, but its one of those situations where the abuse wasnt like the normal abuse from a cluster B because shes geniuely psychotic so its hard to tell whats happening from her POV. Even with how she talks and looks, she comes across distant.
 
Rich Evans Simp dijo:
Curious whether a true BPD could have a minimal/bland non-controversial online presence? Or would the temptation of social media attention be too great to resist?
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Doubtful. BPDs thrive on new, intense relationships and social media/internet make that supremely easy to experience.
SwanSwanson dijo:
This is just stupid pathologizing of bad people. These disorders don't exist and these people have a choice not to be bad which they choose not to take.
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Nah, they clearly fall into specific categories with clear patterns of behavior which is why they have names for them.

Meet a woman who is instantly infatuated with you, says everyone either loves or hates her, instantly loves doing everything you do and self destructs at the thought of not having you around? Congrats you almost certainly met someone who is BPD.
 
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