Estás usando un navegador desactualizado. Es posible que no muestre este u otros sitios web correctamente. Deberías actualizar o usar un navegador alternativo.
Nolan's The Odyssey - Potentially could be epic or an epic flop.
No. It is a terrible sequence. They don't even talk to the cyclops, they just hide in the cave the entire time. The cyclops is portrayed as such a dimwit, he doesn't even question where all these little duders that keep showing up for him to eat even came from, and he doesn't even talk until after they stab his eye out. Then he goes from being totally unable to hear all the yelling and loud whispering by a bunch of multi-cultural Greekoids in the shadows, to being able to discern Odysseus was behind this because somebody whispered his name, and beseeching Poseidon to avenge him. Then they don't even lash themselves to the sheep's bellies to escape, they just tie a lump of straw to their own backs, and after they are free Odysseus shoots the big guy, causing him to flip his shit even worse and kill even more of his guys during an escape to the beach.
So they don't even do the part of the poem where Odysseus proudly and hubristically yells out as they're sailing away that it was Odysseus, son of Laertes, who took his eye out, leading Polyphemus to be able to curse him specifically? Is Nolan retarded? Why even change that? What's the point?
So they don't even do the part of the poem where Odysseus proudly and hubristically yells out as they're sailing away that it was Odysseus, son of Laertes, who took his eye out, leading Polyphemus to be able to curse him specifically? Is Nolan retarded? Why even change that? What's the point?
His name is I love corn syrup, odds are he’s trolling.
The movie misunderstood the themes of what it’s adapting. Sincerely the nuance of the Cyclops scene wasn’t understood by Nolan and the movies adaption bastardizing that effectively destroys any message about being a good guest or good host.
Getting a sheboon to play the most beautiful woman in the world and a woman to play the greatest warrior in the world defines the movie more than any script ever would because it already shows how little respect you have for the culture that made it and the core material and what both your plans and intentions for it are.
Everything coming after it only validates what the casting already told us.
I'll ask both of you a genuine question: what are some 10/10 movies for you? I watch a lot of lower budget movies, and they often make compromises on the casting, costumes, etc. Yeah this is a different case but your takes come off like you don't actually care for cinema.
>It earned $17.6 million from Thursday night previews, which was the highest for any film during that time frame for the year, surpassing Toy Story 5 ($17.5 million)
welp, pack it up fellow chuds, it beat Toy Story 5, a movie which nobody cared about, wanted or anticipated, by 100k
bravo nolan, once again
I doubt this movie did any historical research maybe outside wikipedo article about Odyssey and Illiad.
But this kinda is historically accurate . Greek back then was not unified language. And there were multiple regional dialects. Some like Macedonian were not even intelligible with other
Greek dialects. Only after Death of the Alexander the Great. Koine Greek slowly evolved and spread. And it eventually became one dialect everyone uses. Even New Testament was originally written in Koine Greek.
But I doubt this was intended and it is just case of bad writting accidentally vaguely resembling real history.
Here is why Odyysus feeling guilty about Troy makes no sense, that is just not how people thought of things back then, heck thousands of years latter in Shakespeare's day they didn't think of things that way.
It also makes no sense because there is never a hint in any work touching on the Trojan Cycle that Odysseus ever felt bad about what happened at Troy. He was instrumental (depending on the version) in: deserting Philoctetes on a desert island and then trying to trick him to get back the weapon he was abandoned with; the human (child) sacrifice of Iphigenia; the human (child) sacrifices of Astyanax and Polyxena; getting all his men killed while voyaging back from Troy; and other distasteful things.
The only time he ever expressed a hint of sadness and regret was when he saw his dog Argos die and when the ghost of Ajax refused to speak to him because Odysseus stole away Achilles's armor and set in motion a chain of events that ultimately caused Ajax to commit suicide. He never once expressed sadness about what happened at Troy, much less the murders of multiple children he was involved in or killing an entire generation of Ithacan men.
I could buy the argument he was sad about not seeing his home for twenty years, putting aside him sleeping with the hot witch goddess Circe for a year instead of continuing to sail home. But there is never any suggestion he has any regrets about sacking Troy, nor about the other more obviously awful things he did as part of the Trojan Cycle.
God forbid a white person express how distasteful and confusing it is that Hollywood is purposefully destroying the foundational works of western literature for no reason that can be explained by storytelling.
I doubt this movie did any historical research maybe outside wikipedo article about Odyssey and Illiad.
But this kinda is historically accurate . Greek back then was not unified language. And there were multiple regional dialects. Some like Macedonian were not even intelligible with other
Greek dialects. Only after Death of the Alexander the Great. Koine Greek slowly evolved and spread. And it eventually became one dialect everyone uses. Even New Testament was originally written in Koine Greek.
But I doubt this was intended and it is just case of bad writting accidentally vaguely resembling real history.
This is not true, in Herodotus straight up defined greek identity as "Common language, common blood, common religion." Language was one of the primary ways by which greeks identified other greeks.
The reason Macedonians weren't considered greeks wasn't even an issue of language, it was an issue of blood purity, because they believed macedonians were unable to trace their lineage to ancient greek heroes and were only accepted where Alexander gave providence that he was descended from Argos.
I'll ask both of you a genuine question: what are some 10/10 movies for you? I watch a lot of lower budget movies, and they often make compromises on the casting, costumes, etc.
I don't rank movies on a 0 to 10 scale, I think its generally short sighted and fails to capture what makes a movie good or bad. I look at both what a movie is trying to do, and how well it actually does it. Both things can add or subtract my appreciation for it. A movie trying to a really cool and really intresting high concept but falling short is still better than a movie that has a shit concept but knows how to focus a lens.
This is not a compromise of casting or costume. This is a multi million dollar production by one of the biggest directors with infinite budget, money and power. They didn't cast a fuck ugly sheboon to play helen of troy because they just couldn't find a normal woman no matter how hard they looked, they did it because they wanted to humiliate greeks.
That is to say, this movie has both spiteful evil intentions and its also incompetent at the same time, meaning it checks both broad boxes for dogshit.
God forbid a white person express how distasteful and confusing it is that Hollywood is purposefully destroying the foundational works of western literature for no reason that can be explained by storytelling.
Jason Bourne has been lost at sea for years. His wife, Catwoman, is desolate and being coveted by Batman. Bourne's son, Spider-Man, goes to look for his father with the help of the punisher.
Bourne spends the film explaining to a Doctor Strange cameo that he has PTSD from getting Kitty Pryde killed and now sees MJ scowling at him everywhere he goes. Meanwhile, the Punisher shows Spider-Man his Wakandan wife's traditional tribal scarification. Bourne complains about his second-in-command singing songs about some insects all the time, like some beetle-obsessed siren.
How many people in this film are from the MCU or DC films, like half the cast? I think even that Korean guy in Odysseus' crew is from either the Wolverine or one of the Thor films.
And 3 of them are in Spider-Man! Has a big-budget movie ever been kicked off top spot by a film starring the same cast?
I don't rank movies on a 0 to 10 scale, I think its generally short sighted and fails to capture what makes a movie good or bad. I look at both what a movie is trying to do, and how well it actually does it. Both things can add or subtract my appreciation for it. A movie trying to a really cool and really intresting high concept but falling short is still better than a movie that has a shit concept but knows how to focus a lens.
This is not a compromise of casting or costume. This is a multi million dollar production by one of the biggest directors with infinite budget, money and power. They didn't cast a fuck ugly sheboon to play helen of troy because they just couldn't find a normal woman no matter how hard they looked, they did it because they wanted to humiliate greeks.
Hollywood itself is pozzed and sets nigger quotas. It being a multimillion dollar production doesn't exempt the directors from "the rules", in fact it reinforces that certain things have to be in the movie for it to even be made.
The worst part is that normgroids treat the Odyssey like any other dogshit marvel movie so they can't comprehend why anyone would actually care if its good or not. Our society is rotting from the inside out because it is occupied by retards that can't see the difference between a true epic and zogslop capeshit.
I was browsing Xitter when I came across this Swedistani academic (who's married to Owe Nilsson, a boomer journalist who's infamous for getting into slapfights on social media) promoting an article she wrote about The Odyssey. Her claim? That the ancient Greeks being white is just a white supremacist myth.
Like Achilles, Musk men rage with furry
Accusations are pouring in from angry men on the far-right. And the angriest of them all is Elon Musk. How can you let a Black woman play the beautiful Helen? But that “pure white” ancient Greece is mostly a myth used for sinister political purposes.
Let's see what evidence she cites to support this bold claim.
Like Achilles, Musk men rage with fury. Reasonable counterarguments are of no help—such as the minor detail that Homer’s works are epic tales, populated by sirens, cyclopes, and a Helen who hatched from an egg after Zeus, transformed into a swan, raped Leda.
That Homer does indeed describe Helen as fair-armed, but that this is more of a poetic epithet. That Menelaus and Achilles are said to be fair-haired or red-haired, but that the Greek adjective, xanthos, has a range of other connotations. That Homeric colors don’t always match ours; after all, the sea is wine-red.
And above all: The ancient Greeks and Romans did not categorize people into groups based on skin color, and a lighter skin tone did not in itself signify greater beauty. Athena makes Odysseus black when she restores his beauty, and Memnon, king of Ethiopia, is described as godlike and among the most beautiful in the world.
This is not the first time the manosphere has gone ballistic over Black actors taking on ancient roles. When David Gyasi played Achilles in Netflix’s “Troy: Fall of a City,” he was met with massive racist backlash.
According to far-right men, antiquity must be white. The people must be white. The temples white. The statues as well. Seemingly completely uncontroversial statements about the fact that people in Greece and Rome painted their art are met with anger or even death threats.
The “White Antiquity” project dates back to 18th-century Classicism, when Winckelmann elevated the Belvedere Apollo to the pinnacle of artistic beauty; the statue was associated with the idea of perfectly formed white human bodies in ancient Greece. This image was reinforced in the 19th century, when Greece’s liberation from the Ottoman Empire took on the character of a clash of civilizations—a replay of the Persian Wars, in which freedom-loving Greeks were seen as having saved the West from the East.
Added to this were the ideas of racial biology regarding a “Doric invasion,” according to which northerners had migrated south in ancient times and settled in Greece. The white European was thus genetically linked to Pericles and Phidias. In fact, not even the Greeks of that era were given a natural place in the narrative of the “cradle of the West”; they were often regarded as dark-skinned, unworthy heirs to the pure splendor of the Parthenon. The fact that Greeks, too, are dissatisfied with Christopher Nolan—as far as we know, there are no Greek actors in his *Odyssey*—has historical roots.
Today, the notion of a “white antiquity” has been embraced by far-right nationalists and neo-fascists, who spread conspiracy theories about a so-called “population replacement,” according to which the white population of the Western world is gradually being replaced by a dark-skinned, Muslim one through immigration and reproduction. Hence the concern over low birth rates in the West (yes, Elon Musk tweets about this, too).
Our very existence is at stake, they claim—Western civilization, which can be traced back to Greece and Rome. According to this line of flawed reasoning, the fact that a Black actress is portraying Helen—the very epitome of female beauty in the original Homeric epics—is perceived as a symptom of “woke” Hollywood’s spinelessness and as a threat to the West’s identity.
None of this, of course, means that one is a white supremacist if one disapproves of Nolan’s casting choices; it simply means that antiquity is also being misused. It is no coincidence that slogans from Sparta appeared during the storming of the Capitol.
Since ancient times, Homer's stories have been sung, written down, analyzed and reworked. Aeschylus has Clytemnestra kill Agamemnon rather than Aegisthus. In Euripides' "Helen", she is in Egypt during the Trojan War. Virgil picks up the side character Aeneas and has him found Rome. In Snorri Sturlasson, the god of the gods Odin originates from Troy. Margaret Atwood gives Penelope the leading role in a novel. In Derek Walcott's "Omeros", Helena is a beautiful black woman, and in Christopher Nolan's film as well.
This is what the cultural canon is - classic works that live on.
TL;DR
a) Ancient Greek words for color such as red didn't have the same connotations as they do in modern English, so we shouldn't interpret them according to modern standards – except when it comes to the adjective black-skinned, which should be interpreted literally and be taken as evidence that it's not out of place to have Africans play ancient Greek soldiers. (The word used to mean black-skinned in the original tale is "melagkhroiēs"/ μελάγχροες which refers to a tanned olive skin tone – not the skin color of someone like Idris Elba)
b) 18th century classicists thought that ancient Greeks originally came from northern Europe and that their actual descendants AKA modern Greeks were swarthy imposters. But actually, ancient Greeks didn't look like Englishmen or Scandinavians – therefore, they... weren't white and it's not out of place to have Africans, Indians and Koreans play ancient Greeks, even though they look even less like Greek people than Matt Damon does?
c) "It's just a myth/made up/fiction" (now apply this reasoning to movies like Black Panther)
d) If you are opposed to anachronistic woke casting choices that make no sense, you are an ignoramus who doesn't understand that ancient Greeks weren't white at best, and a white supremacist at worst.
Very short TL;DR
She does not prove that ancient Greeks being white is a myth.
Here is what war was really like, Nolan couldn't understand this scene or why Henry V would be a national hero to England and that is why he shouldn't make historical epics, he can't understand anything out side of the modern LA liberal mindset.
How yet resolves the Governor of the town?
This is the latest parle we will admit.
Therefore to our best mercy give yourselves
Or, like to men proud of destruction,
Defy us to our worst. For, as I am a soldier,
A name that in my thoughts becomes me best,
If I begin the batt’ry once again,
I will not leave the half-achieved Harfleur
Till in her ashes she lie burièd.
The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,
And the fleshed soldier, rough and hard of heart,
In liberty of bloody hand, shall range
With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass
Your fresh fair virgins and your flow’ring infants.
What is it then to me if impious war,
Arrayed in flames like to the prince of fiends,
Do with his smirched complexion all fell feats
Enlinked to waste and desolation?
What is ’t to me, when you yourselves are cause,
If your pure maidens fall into the hand
Of hot and forcing violation?
What rein can hold licentious wickedness
When down the hill he holds his fierce career?
We may as bootless spend our vain command
Upon th’ enragèd soldiers in their spoil
As send precepts to the Leviathan
To come ashore. Therefore, you men of Harfleur,
Take pity of your town and of your people
Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command,
Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace
O’erblows the filthy and contagious clouds
Of heady murder, spoil, and villainy.
If not, why, in a moment look to see
The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand
Desire the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters,
Your fathers taken by the silver beards
And their most reverend heads dashed to the walls,
Your naked infants spitted upon pikes
Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused
Do break the clouds, as did the wives of Jewry
At Herod’s bloody-hunting slaughtermen.
What say you? Will you yield and this avoid
Or, guilty in defense, be thus destroyed?
This movie does such a great job of assassinating Greek culture that one must assume that they have offended one of the God's or one their favorite children. (wink wink nudge nudge)
They should have rewritten the cyclops scene to include the "nobody" joke, but have one of Odysseus's crew be a Jewish Greek named Noah, and another one be a Mexican Greek named Juan, then have them bickering with each other in the background when the cyclops asks who is there, before replying Odysseus says their names to get them to stop "NOAH! JUAN!"
And the cyclops responds "Noah'Juan?" which sounds like "No One"
Nolan had an opportunity to have them escape the cyclops due to their diverse crew.
