Marvel’s Avengers: Infinity War - The Beginning of the End

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- Thor is hands down the MVP of this movie. This and Ragnarok have given him so much development that he desperately needed, and one of my favorite scenes was seeing him process everything that happened in that movie, which he never got a chance to do in it. This and reading Walt Simonson’s run have made him one of my favorite Marvel characters, and I hope the Russo Bros get to direct a Thor movie at some point.

- I really wish that they spent less time with the Guardians and more time with Cap and his crew. Unpopular opinion I know, but I’ve never been fond of the former’s movies, and they were the source of the weakest, most sophomoric humor in the film (in which most of the jokes do land). This was especially bad with Drax, who used to ha e some pathos in the first GOTG movie but since the second has become completely flanderized. I mean, I get that they are more closely connected to Thanos, but there’s just an insincerity with theses characters that rubs me the wrong way: they feel more like your friends who are constantly making snide comments while watching a movie rather than ones that are part of the universe they come from (I will say the scenes between Gamora and Thanos were pretty affecting though). Going back to Cap, there’s an earnestness with him and his movies that I really appreciate and feel is missing in a lot of MCU films (as much as I do enjoy most of them).

- Tony calling Ebony Maw Squidward was the funniest joke in the movie for me. Never thought I’d see the day there was a SpongeBob reference in these movie.
 
Our first IW salt courtesy of another thread?

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UglyOldJafar dijo:
So, how long till Last Jedi is getting its ass kicked by the movie that just has a purple raisin on steroids in terms of box office? As far as I heard, they already earned half of what Last Jedi made this weekend.
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It's the biggest North American release at this point at $258 million, beating out The Force Awakens. Once the worldwide releases roll in, it will likely beat it, especially in big markets like China which hated TLJ but loved Avengers.
 
I'm rolling my eyes at all of the people who are saying things like "Thanos has the right idea" or agree with Thanos's philosophy. This list I found explains why Thanos's plan is dumb and will likely lead to more suffering, not less of it:

  1. His plan ignores civilizations he's already culled and civilizations that aren't yet in need of culling due to being no where near the starvation point. He may have also drove species extinct that were sparsely populated due to previous disasters.
  2. He also ignores who he kills, making it indiscriminate so that it's "fair". He would have killed pilots/drivers/operators of heavy machinery of vehicles causing secondary deaths from the crashes. Due to probability, there would be instances where he killed the pilots and copilots of, say, a jumbo jet, but none of the passengers, effectively dooming everyone on board. He could also end up killing too many of a civilization's food producing cultures like farmers, fishermen, herders, genetic engineers making GMO's, workers for packaging and supplying companies, etc., causing starvation anyways especially for isolated communities. Then caretakers for children, sick, and elderly could die, leaving the helpless without someone to keep them alive. It would also kill doctors during surgery and medical professionals who specialize in rare diseases thus dooming their patients. Finally, he could have killed very powerful people or whole armies leaving civilizations with enormous power vacuums and a whole host of instability problems.
  3. The fingersnap also ignores the other consequences like the ensuing panic, riots, and war.
  4. The culling does nothing to address inequality, access to resources, classism, greed, or the many other causes of starvation (and honestly, doesn't increase the abundance of resources either). Without someone enforcing equality or redistributing resources, people will starve anyways. This is especially true since Thanos stepped down as emperor and if his own armies were also affected by the culling.
  5. The culling wouldn't be a permanent fix. Given enough time, each civilization would become overpopulated again and starvation would again become a regular thing. Unless Thanos is immortal, he would need successors to cull the population again with the Infinity stones and hope they didn't abuse their power. It also ignores the fact that each civilization would take a different amount of time to hit the starvation point.
  6. In the end, more than half the universe's population would die unless Thanos could somehow predict the consequences of each and every individual disappearance and plan accordingly to make sure that ONLY half of everyone died. Since he promised to only kill half of survivors of any war he waged, this would make him a Hypocrite. Whether he decided that the additional deaths were somehow necessary or unavoidable, did plan out who he eliminated and how many he eliminated to ensure exactly 50% of each civilization died, showed preference to certain types of enforcers or producers, just ignored the problem, or many other scenarios ensues that he couldn't keep the promise that he made.
  7. Finally, he ignores the many other solutions available to him. The most obvious one is using resources from uninhabited areas like dead planets or nebulae to produce the food, materials, and other resources necessary to sustain each civilization as it is without causing problems associated with overpopulation. Heck, even if a planet couldn't sustain any more intelligent life due to some kind of pollution issues or something, he could simply have teleported portions of the civilization to another planet that can sustain life to ensue overconsumption doesn't become a problem either. While this solution has the same issue as my 5th point that this wouldn't be a permanent solution, he's no less likely to help as long as he has successors or immortality.
 
Cosmos dijo:
I'm rolling my eyes at all of the people who are saying things like "Thanos has the right idea" or agree with Thanos's philosophy. This list I found explains why Thanos's plan is dumb and will likely lead to more suffering, not less of it:

  1. His plan ignores civilizations he's already culled and civilizations that aren't yet in need of culling due to being no where near the starvation point. He may have also drove species extinct that were sparsely populated due to previous disasters.
  2. He also ignores who he kills, making it indiscriminate so that it's "fair". He would have killed pilots/drivers/operators of heavy machinery of vehicles causing secondary deaths from the crashes. Due to probability, there would be instances where he killed the pilots and copilots of, say, a jumbo jet, but none of the passengers, effectively dooming everyone on board. He could also end up killing too many of a civilization's food producing cultures like farmers, fishermen, herders, genetic engineers making GMO's, workers for packaging and supplying companies, etc., causing starvation anyways especially for isolated communities. Then caretakers for children, sick, and elderly could die, leaving the helpless without someone to keep them alive. It would also kill doctors during surgery and medical professionals who specialize in rare diseases thus dooming their patients. Finally, he could have killed very powerful people or whole armies leaving civilizations with enormous power vacuums and a whole host of instability problems.
  3. The fingersnap also ignores the other consequences like the ensuing panic, riots, and war.
  4. The culling does nothing to address inequality, access to resources, classism, greed, or the many other causes of starvation (and honestly, doesn't increase the abundance of resources either). Without someone enforcing equality or redistributing resources, people will starve anyways. This is especially true since Thanos stepped down as emperor and if his own armies were also affected by the culling.
  5. The culling wouldn't be a permanent fix. Given enough time, each civilization would become overpopulated again and starvation would again become a regular thing. Unless Thanos is immortal, he would need successors to cull the population again with the Infinity stones and hope they didn't abuse their power. It also ignores the fact that each civilization would take a different amount of time to hit the starvation point.
  6. In the end, more than half the universe's population would die unless Thanos could somehow predict the consequences of each and every individual disappearance and plan accordingly to make sure that ONLY half of everyone died. Since he promised to only kill half of survivors of any war he waged, this would make him a Hypocrite. Whether he decided that the additional deaths were somehow necessary or unavoidable, did plan out who he eliminated and how many he eliminated to ensure exactly 50% of each civilization died, showed preference to certain types of enforcers or producers, just ignored the problem, or many other scenarios ensues that he couldn't keep the promise that he made.
  7. Finally, he ignores the many other solutions available to him. The most obvious one is using resources from uninhabited areas like dead planets or nebulae to produce the food, materials, and other resources necessary to sustain each civilization as it is without causing problems associated with overpopulation. Heck, even if a planet couldn't sustain any more intelligent life due to some kind of pollution issues or something, he could simply have teleported portions of the civilization to another planet that can sustain life to ensue overconsumption doesn't become a problem either. While this solution has the same issue as my 5th point that this wouldn't be a permanent solution, he's no less likely to help as long as he has successors or immortality.
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to make it even easier: He is now essentially god. He can create infinite resources for finite people
 
BrunoMattei dijo:
Let's see where they're going with this. Perhaps this plot hole will be explained in part 2?
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I doubt it.

The way I see it, there is no real explanation for it aside of "he didn't think of it, because at the end of the day he is insane in an unconventional way." Furthermore, why should the scriptwriters waste their time on that, when now they need to spend 150 minutes or more to push a reset button and make the dead heroes essentially rise like phoenix from the ash? they will be busy enough to someow integrate Captain Marvel aka the bitch no one likes in the comics in the mix, while also giving enough pathos to the other heroes and make somehow Tony Stark and Nebula join up with the others.

Lets just fac eit with Thanos: thanos was the most entertaining thing in this movie, mostly thanks to his actor. But his motivation in the movie somehow was bullshit and made in parts less sense than him having just a hard one for Mistress Death. Not that I truly complain, as I was still entertained.
 
It was a nice setup for Avengers 4. It will essentially be the original Avengers team getting a sendoff without having to spend much time on newer characters. I'm guessing Captain Marvel will introduce some sort of time travel fuckery to the survivors (Agents of Shield is already hinting at this sort of thing) and they will revisit the events of the past 20 movies snatching up the infinity gems. Thor and Captain America will die in the process, Rocket might die proving he can be selfless after all. Then the movie ends with Thanos in Wakanda and the infinity stones fade away Back to the Future-style. Tony Stark pops out of a time portal with his own infinity gauntlet and melts his face before dying himself.
 
Just saw it.

Fuuuuuuuuuuck.

Kinda doubt Marvel and Disney's gonna go all the way with what happened.

I imagine somehow, they'll defeat Thanos, get Peter Dinklage to make a new gauntlet (Thanos' gauntlet looked messed up) and rewind everything back to the way it was.

Still, that was... heavy.
 
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SkeletonBias420 dijo:
It was a nice setup for Avengers 4. It will essentially be the original Avengers team getting a sendoff without having to spend much time on newer characters. I'm guessing Captain Marvel will introduce some sort of time travel fuckery to the survivors (Agents of Shield is already hinting at this sort of thing) and they will revisit the events of the past 20 movies snatching up the infinity gems. Thor and Captain America will die in the process, Rocket might die proving he can be selfless after all. Then the movie ends with Thanos in Wakanda and the infinity stones fade away Back to the Future-style. Tony Stark pops out of a time portal with his own infinity gauntlet and melts his face before dying himself.
Presiona para expandir...

They're never going to kill Rocket Raccoon. I bet a million bucks on that.
 
Cosmos dijo:
I'm rolling my eyes at all of the people who are saying things like "Thanos has the right idea" or agree with Thanos's philosophy. This list I found explains why Thanos's plan is dumb and will likely lead to more suffering, not less of it:

  1. His plan ignores civilizations he's already culled and civilizations that aren't yet in need of culling due to being no where near the starvation point. He may have also drove species extinct that were sparsely populated due to previous disasters.
  2. He also ignores who he kills, making it indiscriminate so that it's "fair". He would have killed pilots/drivers/operators of heavy machinery of vehicles causing secondary deaths from the crashes. Due to probability, there would be instances where he killed the pilots and copilots of, say, a jumbo jet, but none of the passengers, effectively dooming everyone on board. He could also end up killing too many of a civilization's food producing cultures like farmers, fishermen, herders, genetic engineers making GMO's, workers for packaging and supplying companies, etc., causing starvation anyways especially for isolated communities. Then caretakers for children, sick, and elderly could die, leaving the helpless without someone to keep them alive. It would also kill doctors during surgery and medical professionals who specialize in rare diseases thus dooming their patients. Finally, he could have killed very powerful people or whole armies leaving civilizations with enormous power vacuums and a whole host of instability problems.
  3. The fingersnap also ignores the other consequences like the ensuing panic, riots, and war.
  4. The culling does nothing to address inequality, access to resources, classism, greed, or the many other causes of starvation (and honestly, doesn't increase the abundance of resources either). Without someone enforcing equality or redistributing resources, people will starve anyways. This is especially true since Thanos stepped down as emperor and if his own armies were also affected by the culling.
  5. The culling wouldn't be a permanent fix. Given enough time, each civilization would become overpopulated again and starvation would again become a regular thing. Unless Thanos is immortal, he would need successors to cull the population again with the Infinity stones and hope they didn't abuse their power. It also ignores the fact that each civilization would take a different amount of time to hit the starvation point.
  6. In the end, more than half the universe's population would die unless Thanos could somehow predict the consequences of each and every individual disappearance and plan accordingly to make sure that ONLY half of everyone died. Since he promised to only kill half of survivors of any war he waged, this would make him a Hypocrite. Whether he decided that the additional deaths were somehow necessary or unavoidable, did plan out who he eliminated and how many he eliminated to ensure exactly 50% of each civilization died, showed preference to certain types of enforcers or producers, just ignored the problem, or many other scenarios ensues that he couldn't keep the promise that he made.
  7. Finally, he ignores the many other solutions available to him. The most obvious one is using resources from uninhabited areas like dead planets or nebulae to produce the food, materials, and other resources necessary to sustain each civilization as it is without causing problems associated with overpopulation. Heck, even if a planet couldn't sustain any more intelligent life due to some kind of pollution issues or something, he could simply have teleported portions of the civilization to another planet that can sustain life to ensue overconsumption doesn't become a problem either. While this solution has the same issue as my 5th point that this wouldn't be a permanent solution, he's no less likely to help as long as he has successors or immortality.
Presiona para expandir...

He's called 'the mad titan' for a reason. He's an insane psychopath who is unpredictable and think he's doing the right thing and all of that to him is the cost of doing business. His plan is obviously irrational and anyone can see the flaws because Thanos is insane. That doesn't mean he's an idiot. It just means he's an insane psychopath who obviously doesn't stick to his own terms:

When he goes to the dwarves to forge the Infinity Gauntlet. His own ideology would say kill half. Instead, he kills all but the one who made the gauntlet and takes his hands away. Thanos' motivations are not ideologically pure or rational in any sense of the word. He believes this is the ONLY way things can be done. There are no alternatives, and all that strife will eventually lead to peace. That's why he's insane. His motivations are not rational. Who he loves is not rational. He is fucking insane, and the movie basically proves this. You can argue the destruction of Titan broke his mind, while he was hard before, it completely destroyed him to the point of irrationality.

Yes, Thanos' plan is dumb, but it isn't because Thanos is stupid, its because he's out of his fucking mind.


Dammit Mandrake! dijo:
Maybe one of you that knows more about this universe can answer a question for me.

Is death as insignificant in this universe as it is in the Dragon Ball universe? I imagine the surviving characters looking at the dying characters and smiling as they quip: "don't worry we'll fix this up for you! Just gotta get those stones back."

Or are the dead characters dead and unable to return?
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I'm spoiling the comics:

In the comics, Thanos murders pretty much massive amounts of Marvel characters and then eliminates half the universe. The rest of Infinity War relies on Adam Warlock, formerly on Thanos' side to undo what happened. It also involves Silver Surfer and Doctor Strange. Moreover, Nebula plays an important role and tricks Thanos, stealing the Infinity gauntlet from him.

She resets everything as it was 24 hours ago, which is when Thanos murdered everybody. The gauntlet gets to her head and she proclaims herself the new ruler of the universe, kills all of Marvel's most powerful cosmic beings. Only at the end are Thor and the others able to get the gauntlet off of her. Adam Warlock resets things and basically restores Thanos' sanity, leaving him as a farmer on some world, without the ambition for galactic destruction. The Infinity War basically ends with Adam Warlock holding onto the gauntlet, letting reality take its course and not interfering. The characters that turned to ash will probably come back, but there are real doubts about Loki, Hemidal and Gammora.

Of course, Adam Warlock hasn't been introduced yet and the Silver Surfer and other cosmic beings aren't in the marvel universe right now, so who knows. But expect everyone who turned to ash to come back. Everyone who died a physical death is in doubt.
 
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