Marvel Cinematic Universe

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I'm actually working on a superhero story, and one idea I had for a plotline is specifically meant to be an antithesis to that idea. It involves the main character being transported to a universe where his mother (a firefighter who died of cancer) is still alive, one of his arch-enemies is a hero now... and he was never born. This causes him to wonder if he somehow made things worse in his universe, of if he's a worse hero than the heroic version of his arch-enemy. He eventually realizes that he shouldn't blame himself for every little thing that's gone wrong and that it doesn't make him a bad hero.

Pretty sure it was already done with multiple "If Superman didn't come to earth Luthor would have been a hero". The big issue in those stories is that sane people won't start thinking on how they are responsible for the world state for being born.

In general people don't reflect on their past unless they realize they did something without knowing the full picture.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

I'm actually working on a superhero story, and one idea I had for a plotline is specifically meant to be an antithesis to that idea. It involves the main character being transported to a universe where his mother (a firefighter who died of cancer) is still alive, one of his arch-enemies is a hero now... and he was never born. This causes him to wonder if he somehow made things worse in his universe, of if he's a worse hero than the heroic version of his arch-enemy. He eventually realizes that he shouldn't blame himself for every little thing that's gone wrong and that it doesn't make him a bad hero.

It kinda reminds me of my Star Wars episode 9 treatment following The Last Jedi's release. The cliffnotes version is that Kylo takes over the First Order, and implements his "kill the past" philosophy. Throughout the film, a contrast is made* between peace and prosperity under Kylo's regime, and the poverty and desolation of the Rebel Alliance. However, Rey is too blinded by her hatred of Kylo that she's unable to see that he is bringing about the galaxy that she wants. Eventually, though, Rey learns to accept Kylo for what he is rather than what he was, and teams up with him to fight Hux and the Knights of Ren (who were trying to overthrow Kylo for abandoning Snoke's ideals).

It was ultimately a story about Rey having to get over her childish notions of resistance, and accept that people she finds distasteful can be forces for good in the galaxy.

*I wanted to do things like have Rey visit a First Order village to see families walking through streets, and infiltrate Coruscant during a celebration of the end of the war between the First Order and the Rebellion. You know, things that would drive home the point that her rebellion would destroy something she desperately, desperately wants without necessarily hitting viewers over the head with it.

 

[starborn427614]

besides the fact what if has the single most offensively bad and downright disgusting and nausea inducing looking cg animation I've ever seen in my entire life (and I grew up on shit like beast wars), that's the reason I won't watch the show. It's not even really what if! it's ripping off the DC Elseworlds concept instead. which is an equally cool concept but decidedly not, fucking what if! The whole point of what if is literally just what if everything was the same, then something else happens.

It's just kind of the dull, which is the worst thing a piece of media can be.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

Pretty sure it was already done with multiple "If Superman didn't come to earth Luthor would have been a hero". The big issue in those stories is that sane people won't start thinking on how they are responsible for the world state for being born.

In general people don't reflect on their past unless they realize they did something without knowing the full picture.

Fair point there. The thing I was trying to go for was that the hero has a tendency to blame themself when things go wrong due to self-esteem issues.

Do you have any suggestions on how to improve it?

The cliffnotes version is that Kylo takes over the First Order, and implements his "kill the past" philosophy. Throughout the film, a contrast is made* between peace and prosperity under Kylo's regime, and the poverty and desolation of the Rebel Alliance.

So is Kylo more of a benevolent ruler?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Fair point there. The thing I was trying to go for was that the hero has a tendency to blame themself when things go wrong due to self-esteem issues.

Do you have any suggestions on how to improve it?

The only good thing to do with an hero going to an alternate dimension is seeing another aspects of people he knows. Like seeing a person he thought was complete evil turn up to have a good side, a friend going a darker path, or see how he could have easily done things much worse. HOWEVER, I very much dislike stories with crisis of faith stemming from seeing bad sides of people he idolized. It's incredibly childish storytelling.

Another good thing to do is hint at potential future danger the protagonist unknowingly delayed.

It kinda reminds me of my Star Wars episode 9 treatment following The Last Jedi's release. The cliffnotes version is that Kylo takes over the First Order, and implements his "kill the past" philosophy. Throughout the film, a contrast is made* between peace and prosperity under Kylo's regime, and the poverty and desolation of the Rebel Alliance. However, Rey is too blinded by her hatred of Kylo that she's unable to see that he is bringing about the galaxy that she wants. Eventually, though, Rey learns to accept Kylo for what he is rather than what he was, and teams up with him to fight Hux and the Knights of Ren (who were trying to overthrow Kylo for abandoning Snoke's ideals).

It was ultimately a story about Rey having to get over her childish notions of resistance, and accept that people she finds distasteful can be forces for good in the galaxy.

*I wanted to do things like have Rey visit a First Order village to see families walking through streets, and infiltrate Coruscant during a celebration of the end of the war between the First Order and the Rebellion. You know, things that would drive home the point that her rebellion would destroy something she desperately, desperately wants without necessarily hitting viewers over the head with it.

It's surprisingly nuanced, but certainly wouldn't have been made since media nowadays always defaults to republic/democracy being the only approved method of government seen as acceptable in fiction.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

The only good thing to do with an hero going to an alternate dimension is seeing another aspects of people he knows. Like seeing a person he thought was complete evil turn up to have a good side, a friend going a darker path, or see how he could have easily done things much worse. HOWEVER, I very much dislike stories with crisis of faith stemming from seeing bad sides of people he idolized. It's incredibly childish storytelling.

Another good thing to do is hint at potential future danger the protagonist unknowingly delayed.

Thanks for the advice! I'll take that into account.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

RE: animated characters in the MCU,

There is currently a TVA comic that was ordered by Feige featuring Gwen, Peggy Carter, Gambit, and a couple others. For what people comment, it's just popular characters that he doesn't know where to put in the MCU.

I haven't read it myself, but I know that Scarlet Witch and Mobius are there, and by that I mean, their MCU counterparts. The character drawn there is Owen Wilson and SW is referenced by the actions of MoM. They are just there in their "comic" version, but as I see, it's meant to be them. They just can't be drawn that realistic or they simply won't use the actors' actual looks, who knows.

/CO/ had this discussion the other day, and they are complicating things to much, as usual. For those who didn't watch D&W, don't think of stories as "canon" or not, but rather as different multiverses with the MCU being the main principal line. All other movies, shows, whatever, we've seen before are just universes left to die. But they are "real" in the sense that we saw Blade interacting with Deadpool, Electra, Gambit, and they met the TVA office that's part of the MCU. I mean, the plot was that Wade was meant to be sent to the MCU, so the MCU coexist with these other worlds.

Now, as the Mobius and Wanda have interacted with comic characters in the TVA world that has its own number designation (don't ask me, I only know 616 and this ain't), nothing stop comic 616 (or any other universe) interact with the MCU.

ETA: Just using spoilers out of basic respect, bc I've heard this comic is bad and nobody's really reading it. I think it's just there to test the waters, but nobody's tasting anything.

 

[Powerhouse of the Cell]

RE: animated characters in the MCU,

There is currently a TVA comic that was ordered by Feige featuring Gwen, Peggy Carter, Gambit, and a couple others. For what people comment, it's just popular characters that he doesn't know where to put in the MCU.

I haven't read it myself, but I know that Scarlet Witch and Mobius are there, and by that I mean, their MCU counterparts. The character drawn there is Owen Wilson and SW is referenced by the actions of MoM. They are just there in their "comic" version, but as I see, it's meant to be them. They just can't be drawn that realistic or they simply won't use the actors' actual looks, who knows.

/CO/ had this discussion the other day, and they are complicating things to much, as usual. For those who didn't watch D&W, don't think of stories as "canon" or not, but rather as different multiverses with the MCU being the main principal line. All other movies, shows, whatever, we've seen before are just universes left to die. But they are "real" in the sense that we saw Blade interacting with Deadpool, Electra, Gambit, and they met the TVA office that's part of the MCU. I mean, the plot was that Wade was meant to be sent to the MCU, so the MCU coexist with these other worlds.

Now, as the Mobius and Wanda have interacted with comic characters in the TVA world that has its own number designation (don't ask me, I only know 616 and this ain't), nothing stop comic 616 (or any other universe) interact with the MCU.

ETA: Just using spoilers out of basic respect, bc I've heard this comic is bad and nobody's really reading it. I think it's just there to test the waters, but nobody's tasting anything.

This is showcasing how making every single marvel media part of one universe is absolutely retarded.
It is only causing insane complications and the writers at marvel don't know how to handle the weight of almost all marvel media spanning from animated shows, videogames, comics and the movies being in the same multiverse and trying to connect them all.

I'm not against them making little nods to other universes from other types of media, but they are showing how incapable they are at making coherent rules about how their Multiverse shit works.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

This is showcasing how making every single marvel media part of one universe is absolutely retarded.
It is only causing insane complications and the writers at marvel don't know how to handle the weight of almost all marvel media spanning from animated shows, videogames, comics and the movies being in the same multiverse and trying to connect them all.

I'm not against them making little nods to other universes from other types of media, but they are showing how incapable they are at making coherent rules about how their Multiverse shit works.

It comes across as arrogant too. They're acting like the MCU is the most important in the multiverse, down to calling it the "Sacred Timeline".

And that's not even getting into media getting changed just so it resembles the MCU, like the comics killing off Kamala Khan and resurrecting her as a Mutant because her MCU counterpart is one too.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

yeah, what would have worked fine is in some live action thing a bunch of dimensions poof in through space tubes or whatever the bullshit du jour is, then as it get increasingly crazy the 90s cartoon x-men come in, old cartoon meme spider-man or the slightly-animated Cap cartoon, and then somebody who's straight up newsprint from a comic book page, hell have the crap tv She-hulk doing something stupid and then newsprint 616 She-Hulk just scoots in and bumps her off the screen

 

[Tasty Tatty]

yeah, what would have worked fine is in some live action thing a bunch of dimensions poof in through space tubes or whatever the bullshit du jour is, then as it get increasingly crazy the 90s cartoon x-men come in, old cartoon meme spider-man or the slightly-animated Cap cartoon, and then somebody who's straight up newsprint from a comic book page, hell have the crap tv She-hulk doing something stupid and then newsprint 616 She-Hulk just scoots in and bumps her off the screen

A mix of Crisis on Infinite Earths and FOP's Channel Chasers.

This could work if their intention was to end the multiverses, which they aren't planning to do due to their desperation to get anything, whatever that is, that makes people pay to watch their trash. And Disney so far has been terrible at it. They just can't.

Just compare NWH vs D&W. One is just the producers bringing back the former SMs because up until that moment, everything Marvel related was falling apart. D&W, otoh, is a meta film. It's a final stand for the Fox movies to retire them with dignity, to explain the audience that Deadpool (meaning, Ryan Reynolds) ain't going to the MCU and why, while also introducing finally the X-Men to the MCU as they're the next saga. In one, you can basically smell the desperation. The other slide through it like they didn't even mind. One thought "people are gonna watch this because people like this" vs the other being "please, please like this, we don't know else what to do".

Upcoming saga is the Mutant Saga and I need to remind you all that this includes the very obvious choices: Xavier, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Logan, Storm, Rogue, Gambit, Iceman, Jubilee, Shadowcat, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Magneto, Mystique, (perhaps) Sinister, and then the not so known mutants who might well be Cable, Emma, Havok, Banshee, Psylock, Magic, Forge, Bishop, plus more mutant villains (the brotherhood, Sabretooth, etc) and the human villains (Striker, Trask, Kelly, yadayada) aaand, lesser known mutants who happen to be minorities because Storm, Bishop, and Forge ain't enough, so they have to be there, like Kamala, girl with hijab, black supergenius, Roberto, Dani Moonstar.

And Glob.

Plus, the Fantastic Four, the Thunderbolts, Spidey, Daredevil, Punisher, the Defenders, Shang-Chi, the remains of the previous phases up to Endgame.

They are just DESPERATE to recreate the final Endgame battle without realising that you're now introducing Phoenix and she can snap most villlains out of existence and be done with it.

 

[AllieKat]

There is currently a TVA comic that was ordered by Feige featuring Gwen, Peggy Carter,

Hayle Atwell must suck a mean dick for Feige to still be trying to make Agent Carter a thing ten years past it's expiration date

 

[Oilspill Battery]

The problem is that inherently a bunch of retards with superpowers running around in spanex being dropped square in the middle of our geopolitical enviroment straight up does not work because its half a story.

Heroes either have to have existed all along in which case you need to shape the entire history of the world around it, or the story needs to be about the world reacting to the emergency of heroes.

$current_year + Retards in spanex will never be able to tell any story more meaningful than slock because it literally doesn't care about its own setting.

 

[Fartificial Insmelligence]

Hayle Atwell must suck a mean dick for Feige to still be trying to make Agent Carter a thing ten years past it's expiration date

Dude Hayley Atwell was/ is a BABE and she has a good sense of humor with a nice voice, no surprise people like working with her haha

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

The problem is that inherently a bunch of retards with superpowers running around in spanex being dropped square in the middle of our geopolitical enviroment straight up does not work because its half a story.

Heroes either have to have existed all along in which case you need to shape the entire history of the world around it, or the story needs to be about the world reacting to the emergency of heroes.

I think Marvel's trying to do that with their prequels explaining why certain heroes only became active around the 2010s-2020s by covering up their heroics. Captain Marvel, Isaiah Bradley, Red Guardian, and the Eternals were all given excuses to why they weren't able to help out people like the Avengers. The issue is that none of these heroes and their powers/technology were utilized by the government, and were either ignored, imprisoned, or sent somewhere else until they were needed for the story.

At least with the Defenders, their conficts are so low-stakes compared to Avengers-level threats, it's easy to see them as beneath notice. When the average MCU movie ends with at least an entire city in danger of blowing up, you'd think other heroes would notice it.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Thank God Fiege apparently confirmed Agents of Shield is completely non canon to the main MCU.

I would rather have AoS be canon than the shitty Netflix crap (Minus the first season and a half of Daredevil but if I have to sacrifice Dardevil to get rid of Jessica Jones so be it)

 

[Doctor of Autism]

If true, then holy shit lmao

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Remember than in the marvel universe, it's only been aprox. 15 years since Spiderman got his powers and became a hero (unofficially, 4 years equals 1 since 1963). That'd be if, for us, heroes started to show up since 2010. Ain't really much of a time lapse and it makes sense why many wouldn't just show up when things go wrong.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

Ain't really much of a time lapse and it makes sense why many wouldn't just show up when things go wrong.

the other fun part is that it makes things seem like they make more sense, of course everyone has a smartphone a dozen years after copiers were the height of technology when you have so many geniuses running around.

Still don't know why Spiderman gets away with keeping his web fluid tech to himself. in general the spider powers are worth fuck all compared to that fluid. sticking to walls isn't that helpful for stopping crime or other shit.

 

[Your Starter for 10]

If true, then holy shit lmao

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It's pretty believable. Feige's bigger problem is that his oversight is meaningless since he's also forgotten how to make a decent movie.