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Marathon 2025 - Bungie's new AAAA Extraction shooter
Around GTA's launch is when I'd bet it goes f2p for a bit until the game is killed or abandoned. The game is in a dire state thats probably just gonna get worse with every update. As is Bungie tradition.
The lows are starting to near 1k , I got some captures of a reddit post discussing long matchmaking times before jannies have gotten to it. Long queues will cause exponential falloff to, and it's just gonna get worse.
Around GTA's launch is when I'd bet it goes f2p for a bit until the game is killed or abandoned. The game is in a dire state thats probably just gonna get worse with every update. As is Bungie tradition.
The lows are starting to near 1k , I got some captures of a reddit post discussing long matchmaking times before jannies have gotten to it. Long queues will cause exponential falloff to, and it's just gonna get worse.
Then you need to take a look at the actual credits for the game. Initially it was a small team, but by the time it launched? Fuck no. Again, just because you have a small studio of 100 people or less, doesn't mean a damned thing when you outsource 90% of the work.
23 made GTA 3? https://youtube.com/watch?v=0MJeNZvF3LU
100 people on skyrim? Really? When it has a 10 minute long credit scroll? https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWNqwczCSW8
And you really think Overwatch was 70 when it's credits scroll is almost 17 minutes? Initially it may have been a smaller team, but clearly it got bloated to shit before the game even launched. https://youtube.com/watch?v=IMwtgQSGqZ8
I think I've made my point, but come on man. Just because the internal dev studio is tiny, doesn't mean shit when 20 different offices are involved before even bothering to outsource shit. This industry bloat is not new. Now compare that so something like Quake 3 Arena that actually gets through its credits in a minute and actually only had around 80 people working on it. https://youtube.com/watch?v=EYtYw5neWCQ
This is public information.
I guess we simply disagree on what a "core team" is, as well as what a realistic number is.
Going through GTA3 (and not all of them) but you get 33 unique names before you get to "Test Manager" - which is clearly not a development/full time. The project director said 23 and some people from Rockstar North, going to 33.
You can make an argument for some additional names (ex the Motion Capture people), but the 12 marketing people, the two IT people, the VP of business and so on do not belong. Even if you include every single person in every credit in GTA3 - you get 175. Voice actors, testers, marketing people, etc are not part of the core team - but even if you insist on including every single person who touched the game in any capacity (including doing a password reset for a laptop a coder was using) - it's 175.
If you take that same approach to GTA5's credits - you wind up with 2,400 people give or take, or more than 1000% increase. The same game director for both games said GTA5 had 360 core team members (which is also 1000% more than the ~33 quoted for GTA, which checks out).
You say Overwatch was 4,000+ people but it seems like you just googled "Overwatch Credits" because most of those credits are just the entire Blizzard company. Overwatch did not create Battle.net which accounts for a huge chunk of the credits, as do people who worked on the failed Titan project that preceded Overwatch.
If you want to take the same approach for Overwatch - you still only get 192 people as actually working on the game (which, again, the "Toxicity Strike Team", "Additional Development", "IT support", and "QA Testing" should not be on imo and would be 113).
You mention it's all public info but then don't look at it. We can disagree on some stuff but think it's fairly un-arguable that the tranny that resets your forum password - despite being in the credits for the game - isn't a core member of the team.
The lows are starting to near 1k , I got some captures of a reddit post discussing long matchmaking times before jannies have gotten to it. Long queues will cause exponential falloff to, and it's just gonna get worse.
Interesting. I'd kinda figured it would have started falling apart at around 2k.
It's still fucking dreadful though, how their matchmaking rules are apparently so ridiculous that out of a thousand fucking players it couldn't place some of them in an "adequately conforming" match.
I'm shocked there isn't some escape-hatch logic that says "if a player is queued for more than 5 minutes, fuck it and launch a random queue and fill it with the players who've waited the longest just so they can fucking play." That's diamond-from-coal levels of anal retentiveness keeping such a tight strangehold on the matchmaking process. JFC just load people up and let them play for god's sake. Game's dying anyway. Why not let them have some fun while they can?
Interesting. I'd kinda figured it would have started falling apart at around 2k.
It's still fucking dreadful though, how their matchmaking rules are apparently so ridiculous that out of a thousand fucking players it couldn't place some of them in an "adequately conforming" match.
I'm shocked there isn't some escape-hatch logic that says "if a player is queued for more than 5 minutes, fuck it and launch a random queue and fill it with the players who've waited the longest just so they can fucking play." That's diamond-from-coal levels of anal retentiveness keeping such a tight strangehold on the matchmaking process. JFC just load people up and let them play for god's sake. Game's dying anyway. Why not let them have some fun while they can?
That's how Destiny's matchmaking works, starting with "find a good match" before broadening to "find an okay match" and then "just shove anyone in." Obviously OCE players aren't going to have the best time due to their lower population and the game likely prioritizing good connection, but even so, better to let people actually play a match than just sit there watching the menu. If the overall population keeps dwindling, other regions might start getting this problem too.
You would think that the studio that was a major pioneer in online matchmaking would already know how to deal with this issue, but apparently all those guys were laid off.
They have a cosmetics store I assume, f2p may be able to scrape the barrel for a tiny bit of extra cash towards the studio's incalculable debt to sony (that it will never be able to repay)
Wow, so they could have just literally copied the logic, practically copy/paste, into Marathon, and the dumb fucks still couldn't get it right. Astonishing hubris and incompetence all in one hilarious bundle.
You mention it's all public info but then don't look at it. We can disagree on some stuff but think it's fairly un-arguable that the tranny that resets your forum password - despite being in the credits for the game - isn't a core member of the team.
I have looked at it. Like I said... I don't care if the "core team" started as 70 people. Yes, the facilities department has fuck all to do with decision making about the game. The esports team of 30+, when they kept spending their time trying the balance the game around being an astroturfed esport? They absolutely matter. The couple hundred people on the marketing team when it comes to PR, making characters gay, the pride month bullshit, and so on? Yes they absolutely matter. The hundreds of QA people who didn't find obvious bugs, or were ignored because their managers couldn't explain shit properly to the rest of the team? Same thing.
Hell, Project Titan still has its own separate section in the credits with 150+ people, are you saying they don't matter but you want to refer to how Kaplan worked with the crap they had slapped together that went nowhere?
Stop tricking yourself into thinking a game released in 2016 that was immediately hyped into an astroturfed esports dumpster fire, as if the overwatch league thing hadn't been discussed prior to launch when it clearly had an impact on gameplay, somehow wasn't a bloated mess.
You mention it's all public info but then don't look at it. We can disagree on some stuff but think it's fairly un-arguable that the tranny that resets your forum password - despite being in the credits for the game - isn't a core member of the team.
Clearly you didn't look at this, otherwise you wouldn't continue to be claiming overwatch was a small team. How many times do I need to repeat that "core team" doesn't matter when so much shit is outsourced, or the company is just so big to begin with? That's how these games get into the thousands of people being involved, which all impacts cost, which impacts the final product, and of course any of their crappy decision making or actions that provided any amount of input.
I even gave you an example of a multiplayer shooter that did well, that had under 60 second's worth of credits and an entire credits list still smaller than some of these "core teams" before 41% or whatever it is of the game devs had become amorphous genderblobs, and you ignored it.
Wow, so they could have just literally copied the logic, practically copy/paste, into Marathon, and the dumb fucks still couldn't get it right. Astonishing hubris and incompetence all in one hilarious bundle.
Again, playing devil's advocate here, OCE players have always had a rough time with online multiplayer. Lower population, generally slower internet speeds, and being geographically distant from where most players of most games are located means they're not going to have a great experience a lot of the time. Having a guy with 300 ping in your lobby isn't going to be a fun time for either side of the match, doubly so for a game like an extraction shooter where you stand to lose a lot to a bad game.
In that regard, I can see why the matchmaking algorithm for Marathon probably isn't too keen to start games with people from vastly different regions. Trying to kill a guy who's practically teleporting around the map and jerking around every time you shoot at him is a bad experience in any shooter, but if you lose your gear because the game decides to give the kill to that rando on the other side of the world, then it feels even worse because there was absolutely nothing you could do. One too many games like that, and any player with sense is dropping the game and never coming back.
Like I said, long matchmaking queues affecting OCE players are only the beginning if the population keeps dwindling, though. Concurrents on Steam haven't breached five digits since June 26, and that's with a couple months to go until the next season. The game still managed to tread water above 10k before season 2, so things are looking pretty dire.
Chartposting may be banned on the subreddit, but we can still do it here:
Whoever it was that axed Destiny, do you still think that was a good idea?
