Marathon 2025 - Bungie's new AAAA Extraction shooter

[lurking for the deets]

Concord and Highguard were made by unknown studios and quite literally ran out of money to continue, or else they would be in some type of operation trying to make the lost money back.

The games were released in a piss poor state early in a response to running out of money and just blatantly hoping to find an audience to get enough money to fix the games enough to attract and actual audience and just died on the vine for being half baked. Bungie (and by extension Sony who valued Bungie at several billion) has some cash to run in the red a bit longer than a regular startup studio.

In Concord's case, it wasn't really released in a piss poor state. The few who played it said it was bug free and the gameplay elements at it's core was good and could be ripped and reused for a better title. The issue with that game was it was made for nobody, had hideous character designs that nobody liked and the devs were openly antagonistic to gamers (not to mention they were all insane). They constantly got into arguments and talked down to anybody who might be willing to try it out and made it into a massive culture war type thing. People were out for blood due to the attitudes of the devs.

I'd argue Concord was released in a better state than many games out there. And don't forget it was backed by Sony, which everybody at the time was well aware of. Firewalk Studios was in no means an unknown start-up studio when people first became aware of Concord. Plus it could very well have had more money thrown at it than Marathon has. I'm not sure how much Marathon has spent, but Concord spent at least 400 million. Possibly more, Sony marketed it heavily and even got a show made for it.

Maybe I'm more favorable to Concord because it brought me so many laughs, mostly through Fleek's Dah memes. Certainly made me smile more than Highguard or Marathon ever has. It was such a beautiful disaster.

 

[Leaf Wage Slave Jr]

This game was fucked from the start, not because it's a bad game, but because of how much money they spent to make it.

The Live Service Gold Rush, summarized.

Full disclosure, the almost comical budgets of AAA releases is what I have my money on triggering the next big “Video Game Collapse”. Outside maybe Sports Game and CoD, we’re rapidly reaching a point where the development budgets are unsustainable.

 

[Tanner Glass]

Firewalk Studios was in no means an unknown start-up studio when people first became aware of Concord. Plus it could very well have had more money thrown at it than Marathon has. I'm not sure how much Marathon has spent, but Concord spent at least 400 million. Possibly more, Sony marketed it heavily and even got a show made for it.

Firewalk Studios has literally never released a game other than Concord in it's entire existence. They were a spin off of a spin off of Bungie in 2018 - so many layers removed with 3 key people who apparently could not get it done. There's virtually no way to describe them as "known" because there would be nothing to "know" them for.

Their peak headcount was apparently ~180, which is massive given the low/poor output, but would give a general cost in salaries of $108,000,000 ($100k/yr * 180 employees * 6 years) - so $200,000,000+ isn't really out of reach with whatever Sony provided via support studios, marketing, preview shows, etc. It was an expensive bomb from an untrusted/untested/unknown studio who's claim to fame was "some of these guys worked at Bungie".

180 is a lot of people but still a far cry away from whatever percentage of 1,200 employees Marathon had via Bungie. Let's say for the sake of argument that only 600 people worked on Marathon (half of Bungie) - that same math turns out $420,000,000 (100k/yr * 600 employees * 7 years) - or ~400% more - and that's before you factor in cost of acquisition (I highly doubt Sony paid 3.4 billion for Firewalk Studios).

Concord was a money pit that shouldn't have gotten $400,000,000 but that's a blip in the radar compared to how bad they're getting burned on Marathon.

 

[Oliver Onions]

My personal schizo theory - Marathon will have its funding pulled and EoS announced the nanosecond Horizon Hunters bombs and needs a cash injection. That astroturfed franchise is Hulst’s baby, and I’d be willing to bet he’ll throw whatever resources he can at keeping it afloat, no matter what other titles it fucks over.

My even more schizo theory is the real reason Sony is on this desperate live service push is because none of their recent single player games have made their money back, or made so little they may as well not have bothered.

GaaS is a gamble, but spending hundreds of millions on single player games with one upfront payment and no recurring monetization is suicide, especially when most of your output is glorified interactive movies.

Firewalk Studios has literally never released a game other than Concord in it's entire existence. They were a spin off of a spin off of Bungie in 2018 - so many layers removed with 3 key people who apparently could not get it done. There's virtually no way to describe them as "known" because there would be nothing to "know" them for.

This seems to be the trend now. Wildguard tried to pull the same shit in the Highguard reveal trailer with 'from the makers of Apex Legends' and it was like 2 guys who'd worked at Respawn.

If I remember correctly they actually removed any mention of Apex from the Steam description after the game instantly bombed on release.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

The Live Service Gold Rush, summarized.

Full disclosure, the almost comical budgets of AAA releases is what I have my money on triggering the next big “Video Game Collapse”. Outside maybe Sports Game and CoD, we’re rapidly reaching a point where the development budgets are unsustainable.

they can't really collapse, just the AAA(A) market, which doesn't even matter anymore.
Back in the day the ONLY People who could release a commercial video game project were big companies, the digital age has eradicated this weakpoint, it doesn't matter if Bungie, Sony or whoever the fuck stops making games, they haven't been making good games for years, for some over a decade.

AA and indie companies can make, produce and market games in this age, in a way, the "collapse" is already here.

 

[StacticShock]

Holy fuck, how low can you get Sony?

a couple of billions in debt low, why?

If we're not going to get a reformed Bungie that can actually put out a good Destiny 3, then I'll at least talk solace in the fact that raping our wallets with their aggressive monetization to fund something no one wanted didn't result in success. Suffah and sink with us, faggots.

i don't think that's possible all factors considered, every single "industry standard" developer that comes out of a gamedev college is taught to use shit like unity and unreal, there's not a single motherfucker that knows of the old versions or even different engines.
not to mention the jeets... so yeah triple A is fucking cooked, if they don't make job listings for white people that aren't dangerhairs, they will continue to hire shit people (heh, jeets) that will sink them.

 

[Kane Lives]

i don't think that's possible all factors considered, every single "industry standard" developer that comes out of a gamedev college is taught to use shit like unity and unreal, there's not a single motherfucker that knows of the old versions or even different engines.

Trying to credentialise game devs really fucked them in the ass, huh?

I know gamedev degrees are already considered pretty low value but I think the floor is about to fall out on any perceived value of that in the future.

 

[TrainWreckWatcher]

the almost comical budgets of AAA releases

Video games should never cost several hundred million and they should never have teams of thousands.
All this while taking 5-8 years to come out,
Its a formula for self implosion.

AA and indie companies can make, produce and market games in this age, in a way, the "collapse" is already here.

The collapse is the funding. And that's already gone. I can't remember where I saw it but the charts of funding like indies got being like 25-50k is almost dried up too. So its gonna be bad for anyone who can't do it out of pocket themselves.

 

[SCV]

Why? Because D2 is in maintenance mode? It's a 10 year old game that's shed most of it's users, was it expected to keep going forever? Is the quality still so high it needs a 300+ person development team?

It's fine to be sad that D2 was all but murdered by Bungie's massive incompetence and done dirty but it wasn't going to be going on for another 10+ years even in the best scenario. It sounds like they're going to have a fun final patch and keep the game standing so it can be played (as opposed to Concord, Highguard, Hyenas, and countless others) and maybe a few small patches along the way.

I'm asking what is wrong with you because you're taking a corporate PR announcement saying "Though active development may be concluding, we will ensure that Destiny 2 remains playable," at face value.

Like, did you miss all of last year? The whole Stop Killing Games + Pirate Software saga was pretty big. In your experience have you been treated well by megacorps? Have you some how completely avoided even noticing any enshitification, let alone being affected by it? Are you simply the battered-est of housewives (you are coping a lot)?

 

[creaturestorm]

I'm asking what is wrong with you because you're taking a corporate PR announcement saying "Though active development may be concluding, we will ensure that Destiny 2 remains playable," at face value.

Like, did you miss all of last year? The whole Stop Killing Games + Pirate Software saga was pretty big. In your experience have you been treated well by megacorps? Have you some how completely avoided even noticing any enshitification, let alone being affected by it? Are you simply the battered-est of housewives (you are coping a lot)?

You are a miserable faggot, his description of what is happening is matter of fact. It doesn't need to match your personal interpretation of things nor does it in any way challenge it.

Tranny mindset presents itself once again.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

they can't really collapse, just the AAA(A) market, which doesn't even matter anymore.
Back in the day the ONLY People who could release a commercial video game project were big companies, the digital age has eradicated this weakpoint, it doesn't matter if Bungie, Sony or whoever the fuck stops making games, they haven't been making good games for years, for some over a decade.

AA and indie companies can make, produce and market games in this age, in a way, the "collapse" is already here.

It's AAA prolapse, it's been going for some years now as development budgets were getting stupidly bloated and their games bombing.
I've seen people express fear regarding hypothetical videogames crash before, but nothing like that is going to happen. It's a huge industry with a lot of customers and money in it, someone will always fill the gap left by collapsing crusty fossils. Which is also happening in real time. There's a ton of good games and talented developers outside of AAA space.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

It's a huge industry with a lot of customers and money in it

Huge is still an understatement, its the biggest media industry ever, more than movies, TV, sports, and combat sports, trading cards, ect combined.

Which is always funny to me how Hollywood Jews still thumb their nose at videogame and anime adaptations.. both those industries blow theirs so far out of the water they are a fucking ROUNDING ERROR to them.

 

[SCV]

You are a miserable faggot, his description of what is happening is matter of fact. It doesn't need to match your personal interpretation of things nor does it in any way challenge it.

Tranny mindset presents itself once again.

Keeping in mind this is because I said "shutdown Destiny 2" while the official statement says "active development may be concluding".

But seeing as this is such a HUGE injustice that has, nay, MUST! be corrected and because I am such a good and magnanimous person, I want to help. Here's some other people that you, @creaturestorm, and @Tanner Glass need to go and correct for great justice:

D2's hasty shutdown

Destiny 2 shutdown

They had a game for those people [D2] and they killed it, now they are trying to get those fuckers to move over.

Destiny is officially dead.

Spoiler

Destiny 2 isn't shut down,

 

[Kitty Jesus]

This game was fucked from the start, not because it's a bad game, but because of how much money they spent to make it.

A steep learning curve + losing items you paid real world money for isn't appealing to players new to the genre. Most people see it as corporate greed. It was never going to be positioned to take on other AAA slop titles like CS2.

Marathon's primary audience was people who already play extraction shooters, not players new to the genre. Bungie knows this but yet they have done nothing to make Destiny 2 or Arc Raiders players genuinely excited about switching to Marathon. They act entitled to these players, not because of their products merit but because it is new.

If your only goal was to make the most fun and popular game you wouldn't have picked a niche genre and then divided said genre even further. To me that makes Marathon a bad game.



As far as Sony, they seem to be pumping out one massive failure after the next. I don't know if they are afraid to be the voice of reason against big industry names like Bungie and Hideo Kojima but they seem to be afraid to call out games that aren't fun, or they simply don't care.

When you consider how large the budgets of some of these games are, it seems crazy how many corners are cut and how empty the worlds are. Sony can't even manage to make a game as good as Skyrim, and that was released in 2011. Then you have all of the unlikable internet grifters that give them high praise regardless or what they do.

27:22

(source, a)

 

[creaturestorm]

A steep learning curve + losing items you paid real world money for isn't appealing to players new to the genre.

Are you talking about Destiny fans getting fucked previously? There is no RMT in this game for items.

Marathon's primary audience was people who already play extraction shooters, not players new to the genre

I disagree, it was both. They wanted to bring 1st person extraction shooters to a market that didn't have it (Playstation and xbox) while courting those who were already familiar with it.

If your only goal was to make the most fun and popular game you wouldn't have picked a niche genre and then divided said genre even further. To me that makes Marathon a bad game.

"flawed strategy = bad game"

lol no

 

[Honored guest]

Once upon a time, D2 shipped with a pack-in campaign called The Red War, which was an introduction campaign designed to properly introduce the world and story of Destiny. The plot was kinda shitty and generic but it at least helped new players actually onboard properly.

Then one day Bungie decided they'd bloated the game with too much content, so they introduced the "Destiny Content Vault" and literally just hacked out massive portions of the game, including DLCs people had paid for and The Red War. Suddenly, new players had no proper onboarding and all they were left with was a smattering of random disconnected missions and features they didn't know how to work. It's why the only people who play D2 now are ride-or-die niggas who have been there since the start, because it's a herculean effort for new people to get to grips with things.

The mass removal of DLC was even worse because it axed at least 300USD worth of content people had paid for. I think that's the biggest reason Marathon isn't pulling in new people; why on earth would you give money to a company that's set the precedent of being able to take away almost half a grand worth of content you'd paid for with no recourse?

(Incidentally Bungie got sued last year over accusations of plagiarism with Red War's story and they literally could not produce gameplay of it because it no longer runs with the current build of D2. So the "vaulted" content is essentially forever lost media now.)

This explains so much, I tried destiny 2 briefly (free to play), and had no idea what the fuck I was doing, what the fuck is going on, what is this floating talking dorito, and why the hell is it speaking for me? I thought that there is no way such a disjointed mess could be made by much a large developer and be so popular.

 

[dltzk]

Ya know, I thought this Night Marsh boss would be like a lot cooler???? But its so fucking lame lol, just another copy and paste Commander. I've ran this thing 2 times so far and there is literally nothing special about this boss each time I fight it. It is the equivalent of a Destiny 2 raid ad clear encounter. Anyways the new map isn't so bad and it actually makes dire marsh playable, but I already feel myself getting tired from it. Literally the only way to save this game is if they go free to play, and if they do I better get every fucking cosmetic in the game for free I will throw a tantrum.

 

[Kitty Jesus]

Are you talking about Destiny fans getting fucked previously? There is no RMT in this game for items.

Must have been my misunderstanding then.

"flawed strategy = bad game"

lol no

Marathon is sitting at #43 despite currently being free to play on Steam, eclipsed by Arc Raiders (2025), Destiny 2 (2019), Rainbow Six Seige (2015), PayDay 2 (2013), and even 17 year old Left 4 Dead 2 (2009) for some reason.

Pretty embarrassing a 3 month old AAA game from one of the most beloved game studios can't even crack the top 25 when they are outright giving people a fully functional free demo. I am going to double down and say yeah this is a bad game.

They wanted to bring 1st person extraction shooters to a market that didn't have it (Playstation and xbox)

Interesting but to my knowledge neither PSN or XBL are honest and transparent enough to publicly report active player statistics so I am forced to assume those numbers trail pc, since pc is the preferred platform for competitive shooters.

 

[creaturestorm]

Must have been my misunderstanding then.

I am going to double down and say yeah this is a bad game.

Without a solid understanding of the topic, it's difficult to evaluate how much weight an opinion should carry.

Ya know, I thought this Night Marsh boss would be like a lot cooler???? But its so fucking lame lol, just another copy and paste Commander. I've ran this thing 2 times so far and there is literally nothing special about this boss each time I fight it. It is the equivalent of a Destiny 2 raid ad clear encounter. Anyways the new map isn't so bad and it actually makes dire marsh playable, but I already feel myself getting tired from it. Literally the only way to save this game is if they go free to play, and if they do I better get every fucking cosmetic in the game for free I will throw a tantrum.

But he throws frost grenades instead of poison grenades!!!!

I think half the new shit in night marsh was a last second knee jerk reaction to people demanding more pve.

I would rather this game die tonight than go free to play. I've had enough of these grey geared sponsor kit retards shitting up my runs. It's fucking miserable.

 

[Here to Gawk]

If your only goal was to make the most fun and popular game you wouldn't have picked a niche genre and then divided said genre even further. To me that makes Marathon a bad game.

Marathon was never intended to be sole game supporting Bungie. Years ago, Bungie used their Destiny money to incubate a few new projects. The most promising one—Project Gummy Bears—was forcibly taken over by Sony, and spun off on to its own brand new studio. Gummy Bears was supposed to be Bungie's next big tentpole "most fun and popular" IP, not Marathon, but Bungie lost the rights to it. Marathon was the only other project of the experimental lot that didn't get canned or taken over by Sony, so it got saddled with the unfair and unrealistic expectation of carrying the entire company. Marathon is a fine game for its niche. It's not "bad." The real problem is the years of mismanagement that put Marathon in that crap situation in the first place.