Lucifer: The Fallen Angel

[SilkGnut]

Lucifer and Jesus strike me as direct parallels on different octaves.

Children of the divine who were created solely to rebel against a world they perceived as unjust, neither had any real choice in their matters but to act as they did, as foils for the order that they encountered that served only to handicap the humans around them. Both desired to make humans as gods (unless you want to argue Lucifer and the serpent are supposed to represent different characters, Christian lore is so utterly fucked that I can appreciate either interpretation) and fought against impossible odds only to ultimately be brought low by the inevitable forces they struggled against.

The big difference is their respective marketing departments and which level of authority they rebelled against. Oh, and Jesus is actually canon. Good lord Christian lore is so fucking confused.

 

[R00T]

What’s always been fascinating to me is that many Christians demand literalism of the text when many of the ideas and messages there within are so beautiful and meaningful as metaphor. Many, MANY Jews at this point attest that tales from Genesis and Exodus are largely metaphor. Most Jewish scholars and many rabbis will outright state that the journey out of Egypt is presented to create a narrative. A story of a people, not one that is necessarily the whole truth but one steeped with meaning. It’s even critical of the Jewish people throughout. Why is that? Surely the writers of the text would’ve omitted the less than favorable segments?

It’s because there is a lesson to be learned and a moral to be imparted. In the case of much of Exodus it’s about faith and being a leader for your people, and that even the best of us can stumble. It’s why Moses never makes it to the Promised Land. It reminds us that there can always be a fall, regardless of your status. In a story sense it’s terrible. To follow your main character and then deny him his reward. To impart a lesson it’s divine.

Take a look at an interesting Christian example of this:

During the crucifixion a pardoning of Passover occurs. This happens nowhere in Jewish text, and is never brought up again. It’s something that just happens. Weird but okay. Now the choice is between Barabbas and Jesus. Barabbas in modern times is some sorta mega rapist cannibal (thanks Mel Gibson) but the reality was he is a political prisoner. The text says he killed a man, at the time Rome was at war with the Israelites. It could’ve been a conspiracy, it could’ve been an accident, it could’ve been a political plot. We won’t know. The important thing is that he likely wasn’t a murder rapist and would’ve been seen as a true son of Israel. Plenty of reason to pardon him. This is not really pointed out in the text. There was actually a lot more about Barabbas prior to some efforts of medieval Christians. The name is a Latinization of a Hebrew name: break it down and it’s Bar Abba- loosely Son of the father. Not only this but it’s a surname, one you never see anywhere. Initially his real name was Jesus Barabbas, but there was a push to remove any example of the name Jesus being connected to a character of low repute. Another example was a thief who was named Jesus. So Jesus, son of the Father is put on trial against Jesus, the son of God. For early Christians this would’ve been text to represent the idea that Jews, when it came to false prophets, were to forgive the man, but condemn his blasphemy. It is not their fault. God explicitly states he would send false prophets to test Jews and through faith you should not be swayed. For early Christians this would’ve be a moment that breaks away from traditional Jewish teaching: you are to take that step of faith that god has sent him to save you.

It’s a beautiful and powerful moment that makes the work more significant and it’s completely lost on modern day Christians. The actual moral is lost and what’s left is an uncritical, unchallenging piece that doesn’t require you to learn and understand it. To have these conversations and challenge yourself to know the text is blasphemy.

 

[Dagoth AMOGUS]

Hey at least we’re not arguing about politics for once

 

[Harm]

Many, MANY Jews at this point attest that tales from Genesis and Exodus are largely metaphor.

Hebrew is a beautiful, layered language. Every single letter holds deep symbolic meaning. When you translate it out of Hebrew, remove that meaning, and then give it to some people who have no foundation or respect for its linguistic origins, you get morons who think God literally Thanos snapped His fingers and bam, the Universe. They completely removed the fact that in Genesis, everything was SPOKEN into existence. That's because language is a force for constructing reality, and distorting that language distorts the message of God, quite literally.

If the OP can't even handle the reality that Jesus was a Jew who in his lifetime predominantly taught unto other Jews, there's no way he could last through a single lesson of the orthodox Judaic interpretation of Genesis in Hebrew. Not that I'm a master of the text either, but I don't attack Jesus' people while claiming to be representing the ideas of Jesus!

 

[Eadred]

Posting jpg
Posting YouTube Video
Posting huge wall of chat gtp summary text
Bad copy paste job breaking format of post
Not a single self-made thought
Repeat ad nauseam

Very Cool

 

[Divine Power]

Posting jpg
Posting YouTube Video
Posting huge wall of chat gtp summary text
Bad copy paste job breaking format of post
Not a single self-made thought
Repeat ad nauseam

Very Cool

Posting a worthless post that contributes no meaning to my threads
depressive low IQ cuck
your photo sucks
you have no soul
you have no taste
What doth life? (it is to be suck in limbo?)

 

[Eadred]

What doth life? Are we just fleshy blips in some meaningless stew of cosmic oblivion? Or is it vice-reversa?
Life. You could say it started when I was a kid. Like most folks, I've always been different. But not like the others.
Powers are for the weak. I have no powers. I mean, unless you count the power to blow minds with my weapons-grade philosophical insights.
Fate. Destiny. Fatestinatey. People toss those words around like tennis balls. Well, I eat balls for breakfast. I know my purpose is righting wrongs. I'm the wrong-righter, but I don't need you to call me that. I have special needs.
This is no longer a clue. It's a game. You may have just gotten checkmate, but we're playing Chinese checkers, and as my old friend Confucius say; the hunter has become the hunter-ed. The chaser has become the chosed. Dame Fortuna has had her franking privileges revoked. It seems the portrait has painted the artist, sketching the reverser, who has become the reverse-ed. But this time the suffixed will become the sufferer, and it appears the baby killer is about to kill a baby.
Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant. Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped. Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses. Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
This happy place holds magic meaning, for 'twas my mother's nickname. Truckers, delivery guys, men coming in and out of the house all day called her the Grand Canyon, but I never knew why. It's just a great wide gash, spread open for the enjoyment of all to come inside as he pleases and pleasures. Often there's a donkey in there.
I'll be your violence absorber, your cosmic sponge of aggression, sucking off all the machismo you can sploot my way. I'll let these kit shickers kit the shick out of me then let them shove the kack of their human shick in my face. I'll let them kick the bejesus out of me and then rub the bejeez into my hair. I'll take your licks and bounce for you.

 

[Divine Power]

What doth life? Are we just fleshy blips in some meaningless stew of cosmic oblivion? Or is it vice-reversa?
Life. You could say it started when I was a kid. Like most folks, I've always been different. But not like the others.
Powers are for the weak. I have no powers. I mean, unless you count the power to blow minds with my weapons-grade philosophical insights.
Fate. Destiny. Fatestinatey. People toss those words around like tennis balls. Well, I eat balls for breakfast. I know my purpose is righting wrongs. I'm the wrong-righter, but I don't need you to call me that. I have special needs.
This is no longer a clue. It's a game. You may have just gotten checkmate, but we're playing Chinese checkers, and as my old friend Confucius say; the hunter has become the hunter-ed. The chaser has become the chosed. Dame Fortuna has had her franking privileges revoked. It seems the portrait has painted the artist, sketching the reverser, who has become the reverse-ed. But this time the suffixed will become the sufferer, and it appears the baby killer is about to kill a baby.
Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant. Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped. Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses. Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
This happy place holds magic meaning, for 'twas my mother's nickname. Truckers, delivery guys, men coming in and out of the house all day called her the Grand Canyon, but I never knew why. It's just a great wide gash, spread open for the enjoyment of all to come inside as he pleases and pleasures. Often there's a donkey in there.
I'll be your violence absorber, your cosmic sponge of aggression, sucking off all the machismo you can sploot my way. I'll let these kit shickers kit the shick out of me then let them shove the kack of their human shick in my face. I'll let them kick the bejesus out of me and then rub the bejeez into my hair. I'll take your licks and bounce for you.

Depressive bullshit, seek some psychological help, a therapist might help you with your condition.

 

[AnsemSoD1]

Both of you are likely Jews, your ideas are completely dismissed. It's clear that you both lack the intellectual capacity to contribute meaningful thoughts.

They likely practice Gematria/Kabballah as well, total. Kike. DEATH.

 

[Dan of Steel]

I thought this thread was going to be about David Bowie Lucifer the comics.

Instead it's whatever the fuck this thread is.

 

[rapecel]

It's sarcasm about a man, not a reference to some fallen angel.

which church fathers though this way

 

[Harm]

which church fathers though this way

Well, starting with the original text itself, modern scholars tend to believe that the book of Isaiah as we know it had 3 (or more) authors whose separate-but-related works were compiled together. The first portion is thought to have been authored by Isaiah ben Amoz, the book's namesake, and would place that portion around the 8th century BCE.

Then, about 1,100 years later, in the early 5th century CE, the earliest translations of that passage which took the phrase הֵילֵל בֶּן־שָׁחַר (which is phonetically "helel ben shachar"), and translated it into "Lucifer," came from a goy named St. Jerome. He deliberately distorted his translations to morph them to fit onto their contemporaneous understanding of Christian theology. From there, a goy named Augustine of Hippo would solidify the fabrication of the Lucifer character in his interpretation of the translated texts.

So, the "church fathers," who from what I can tell are primarily goyim projecting invented meaning onto misunderstood Judaic religious texts from 1,100 years prior, who were most likely to interpret Isaiah for what it is would be those preceding Augustine of Hippo, although even they may have already been twisting things to push their theological agenda.

For some perspective, let's take a Christian text written about 1,100 years ago from today, like Arethas of Caesarea’s Commentary on Revelation. It'd be as if someone who isn't Christian took a translation of that text which took theological liberties to alter its message to fit a new religion, and then decided that there was a brand new "character" who is now the antagonist to God Himself. Also, they call their churches "bodegas" and they're all women, so people simply say "but this is what our bodega mothers believed!" Then, when corrected, they ask, "which bodega mothers thought this way?"

 

[Divine Power]

Well, starting with the original text itself, modern scholars tend to believe that the book of Isaiah as we know it had 3 (or more) authors whose separate-but-related works were compiled together. The first portion is thought to have been authored by Isaiah ben Amoz, the book's namesake, and would place that portion around the 8th century BCE.

Then, about 1,100 years later, in the early 5th century CE, the earliest translations of that passage which took the phrase הֵילֵל בֶּן־שָׁחַר (which is phonetically "helel ben shachar"), and translated it into "Lucifer," came from a goy named St. Jerome. He deliberately distorted his translations to morph them to fit onto their contemporaneous understanding of Christian theology. From there, a goy named Augustine of Hippo would solidify the fabrication of the Lucifer character in his interpretation of the translated texts.

So, the "church fathers," who from what I can tell are primarily goyim projecting invented meaning onto misunderstood Judaic religious texts from 1,100 years prior, who were most likely to interpret Isaiah for what it is would be those preceding Augustine of Hippo, although even they may have already been twisting things to push their theological agenda.

For some perspective, let's take a Christian text written about 1,100 years ago from today, like Arethas of Caesarea’s Commentary on Revelation. It'd be as if someone who isn't Christian took a translation of that text which took theological liberties to alter its message to fit a new religion, and then decided that there was a brand new "character" who is now the antagonist to God Himself. Also, they call their churches "bodegas" and they're all women, so people simply say "but this is what our bodega mothers believed!" Then, when corrected, they ask, "which bodega mothers thought this way?"

Lies, The story of the fallen angel is pieced together from several parts of the Bible, including the aforementioned passage in Isaiah, a passage in Ezekiel (28:12-19) that talks about a powerful, perfect cherub who fell due to pride, and passages in the New Testament (like Luke 10:18 and Revelation 12:7-9) that mention Satan's fall from heaven.

Get back to DMT and do not talk about Lucifer like he is an invented character. Jew, you probably think that Jesus is an invented character too, lmao.

 

[Harm]

a passage in Ezekiel (28:12-19) that talks about a powerful, perfect cherub who fell due to pride

Another butcher job by St. Jerome. The guy who was re-writing the scripture to fit a constructed non-scriptural narrative. Huh, funny how that works.

י"ב בֶּן־אָדָם שָׂא קִינָה עַל־מֶלֶךְ צֹור, וְאָמַרְתָּ לוֹ, כֹּה אָמַר אֲדֹנָי יְהוִה: אַתָּה חֹותֵם תָּכְנִית, מָלֵא חָכְמָה וּכְלִיל יֹפִי.
י"ג בְּעֵדֶן גַּן־אֱלֹהִים הָיִיתָ, כָּל־אֶבֶן יְקָרָה מְסֻכָּתְךָ: אֹדֶם, פִּטְדָה וְיַהֲלֹם; תַּרְשִׁישׁ, שֹׁהַם וְיָשְׁפֵּה; סַפִּיר, נֹפֶךְ, וּבָרְקַת וְזָהָב; מְלֶאכֶת תֻּפֶּיךָ וּנְקָבֶיךָ בָּךְ, בְּיוֹם הִבָּרַאֲךָ כִּוְּנוּ.
י"ד אַתָּ–כְּרוּב מִמְּשַׁח, הַסּוֹכֵךְ, וּנְתַתִּיךָ בְּהַר־קֹדֶשׁ אֱלֹהִים; הָיִיתָ, בְּתוֹךְ אַבְנֵי־אֵשׁ הִתְהַלַּכְתָּ.
י"ה תָּמִים אָתָּה בִּדְרָכֶיךָ, מִיּוֹם הִבָּרָאֲךָ, עַד־נִמְצָא עַוְלָתָה בָּךְ.

 

[Divine Power]

Another butcher job by St. Jerome. The guy who was re-writing the scripture to fit a constructed non-scriptural narrative. Huh, funny how that works.

י"ב בֶּן־אָדָם שָׂא קִינָה עַל־מֶלֶךְ צֹור, וְאָמַרְתָּ לוֹ, כֹּה אָמַר אֲדֹנָי יְהוִה: אַתָּה חֹותֵם תָּכְנִית, מָלֵא חָכְמָה וּכְלִיל יֹפִי.
י"ג בְּעֵדֶן גַּן־אֱלֹהִים הָיִיתָ, כָּל־אֶבֶן יְקָרָה מְסֻכָּתְךָ: אֹדֶם, פִּטְדָה וְיַהֲלֹם; תַּרְשִׁישׁ, שֹׁהַם וְיָשְׁפֵּה; סַפִּיר, נֹפֶךְ, וּבָרְקַת וְזָהָב; מְלֶאכֶת תֻּפֶּיךָ וּנְקָבֶיךָ בָּךְ, בְּיוֹם הִבָּרַאֲךָ כִּוְּנוּ.
י"ד אַתָּ–כְּרוּב מִמְּשַׁח, הַסּוֹכֵךְ, וּנְתַתִּיךָ בְּהַר־קֹדֶשׁ אֱלֹהִים; הָיִיתָ, בְּתוֹךְ אַבְנֵי־אֵשׁ הִתְהַלַּכְתָּ.
י"ה תָּמִים אָתָּה בִּדְרָכֶיךָ, מִיּוֹם הִבָּרָאֲךָ, עַד־נִמְצָא עַוְלָתָה בָּךְ.

Because you are not a Christian, you do not worship the idea of Christian concepts of evil and pride. That's why Christians are superior to you.

 

[Harm]

Because you are not a Christian, you do not worship the idea of Christian concepts of evil and pride. That's why Christians are superior to you.

The absolute irony of chastising someone for not heeding their pride, only to immediately declare an inherent superiority over them. Very prideful. I'd consider it far more "evil" to be deliberately warping the religion of Jesus to fit a manufactured narrative that's more palatable to those who have open contempt for Jesus' people, than to have been born an ethnicity which you self-righteously deem to be irredeemable.

So, if God is all-knowing, and the Jews are now all evil sons of bitches, but God chose the Jews to be His stewards of Torah through Moses and Abraham... does that mean God entrusted His word to evil people whom He knew were evil all along? That's rather strange and irreconcilable. Do all the Jews already in Heaven get demoted down to Hell or are they grandfathered in? It must suck to make it all up as you go along.

 

[Divine Power]

The absolute irony of chastising someone for not heeding their pride, only to immediately declare an inherent superiority over them. Very prideful. I'd consider it far more "evil" to be deliberately warping the religion of Jesus to fit a manufactured narrative that's more palatable to those who have open contempt for Jesus' people, then to have been born an ethnicity which you self-righteously deem to be irredeemable.

So, if God is all-knowing, and the Jews are now all evil sons of bitches, but God chose the Jews to be His stewards of Torah through Moses and Abraham... does that mean God entrusted His word to evil people whom He knew were evil all along? That's rather strange and irreconcilable. Do all the Jews already in Heaven get demoted down to Hell or are they grandfathered in? It must suck to make it all up as you go along.

Even in Islamic theology, God is so angry about creating Jews that He called them the sons of pigs and monkeys. Maybe the time has come for you to consider if being Jewish is objectively good or not.

 

[Harm]

Even in Islamic theology, God is so angry about creating Jews that He called them the sons of pigs and monkeys. Maybe the time has come for you to consider if being Jewish is objectively good or not.

Oh no, the pedophile prophet who rapes children doesn't like me! Whatever shall I do?

I'll give it to you, the pedophile prophet is on your side with this one.

 

[Divine Power]

Oh no, the pedophile prophet who rapes children doesn't like me! Whatever shall I do?

I'll give it to you, the pedophile prophet is on your side with this one.

Only Pajeets are on your side as a Jew. Imagine being loved by Pajeets

 

[rapecel]

modern scholars

idgaf

CE

lmao

and translated it into "Lucifer," came from a goy named St. Jerome. He deliberately distorted his translations to morph them to fit onto their contemporaneous understanding of Christian theology. From there, a goy named Augustine of Hippo would solidify the fabrication of the Lucifer character in his interpretation of the translated texts.

There are church fathers who could read Greek, meaning they could read the Septuagint.