Leaving Neverland - heehee

[MirnaMinkoff]

Before watching the documentary, I figured the rumors were true since there was all that unsettling stuff we already knew about, and it's not uncommon for the rich and famous to do deviant shit like that and get away with it. Now, I've watched it and I'm not so sure anymore. There isn't really any evidence presented, just the guys telling anecdotes. MJ definitely gave off some creepy vibes, and I wouldn't be shocked if something happened, but I don't know if I can trust these guys.

So then what do you think Jackson was doing with Wade and James all those nights they spent with him in his bed, alone, at Neverland, in hotels, and on vacations together? Why did MJ want to spend so much time with Wade and James, until they hit puberty and then he dropped them like a bad habit and replaced them with new younger boys?

Why did MJ's bedroom at Neverland door look like this?

Those aren't locks to keep his bedroom secure while he's away, those are locks to keep the door secure while he's inside with random little boys at night.

The nights and trips MJ spent with Wade and James are not in dispute by anyone, so I'm not sure why it's hard to believe what they say about what MJ was doing to them during those times he went to great lengths to spend time alone with them. Adult men don't try get little boys alone in the beds over and over again for innocent reasons.

 

[iRON-mAn]

So then what do you think Jackson was doing with Wade and James all those nights they spent with him in his bed, alone, at Neverland, in hotels, and on vacations together? Why did MJ want to spend so much time with Wade and James...

The nights and trips MJ spent with Wade and James are not in dispute by anyone...

Wade Robson's own mother disputed it until it was convenient not to. From her 2005 deposition:

Either she perjured herself then, or she's lying now to bolster Wade's story. Unless we're also claiming she was groomed to be so in love with Jackson that she was coerced into lying for him as well.

EDIT: Additionally:

 

[Truthspeaker]

Wade Robson's own mother disputed it until it was convenient not to. From her 2005 deposition:

Either she perjured herself then, or she's lying now to bolster Wade's story. Unless we're also claiming she was groomed to be so in love with Jackson that she was coerced into lying for him as well.

EDIT: Additionally:

You joined yesterday, you fucking shill.

As did I, but I joined specifically because I wanted to bring down the S.S. Bad Touch, not prop it up.

 

[Andrei Tarkovsky]

You joined yesterday, you fucking shill.

As did I, but I joined specifically because I wanted to bring down the S.S. Bad Touch, not prop it up.

And how do we know you're not a shill? You're like the pot calling the kettle black. Just because you admit you joined to talk about how MJ was a pedophile, doesn't mean you're suddenly not a hypocrite (especially since both of you joined just recently). You're not much different from him. Both of you could be payed shills for all we know.

The dude you replied to posted an actual deposition from the mother. The word from the horse's mouth as evidence for obvious contradicting statements. And what you have to say? "You posted something that goes aganist my narrative? What are you, a SHILL!?!?!"

 

[UE 558]

Haven't seen the documentary, for all I know MJ could very well be guilty, however I also think that trying to scrub away all traces of MJ's influence from American culture is fucking retarded. Just accept that people like his music and go after the man himself instead of just blindly attacking fans of it or anything that features or references him. Hell, I even saw some people go after DMC's Faust Hat dance, even though it was likely mocapped 1-2 YEARS before Leaving Neverland even aired. MJ might've been an evil piece of shit, but completely censoring his presence from pop culture will just make his blind supporters look like martyrs.


Example: CNN Talking About Al Jean removing MJ's Simpsons episode

 

[Truthspeaker]

I wasn't (just) joking about the Brothers Trump earlier.

I searched Donny June's personal Twitter, and Eric's. Donny brought Jacko up once, in 2011, and there's been nothing since, aside from jokes made about him and Eric being molested as children.

This guy wasn't just their neighbor. He was their friend. He hung out with them for hours at a time right when both boys, especially Eric, were at Jacko's favorite age for special friendships, and not one word of defense from either brother's been uttered.

Surely they'd be the prime candidates to dispel this awful story. Their own mother spoke up in Jacko's defense in 2017. But there's not been one word from them on the affair, and it's not like either brother's averse to celebrities.

Granted, I wouldn't believe them if they said their relationship was on the level, since there's still tons of pornography and dozens of friendships with boys to account for. But their silence is devastating, and implies they can't even be paid to speak in his favor.

And how do we know you're not a shill? You're like the pot calling the kettle black. Just because you admit you joined to talk about how MJ was a pedophile, doesn't mean you're suddenly not a hypocrite (especially since both of you joined just recently). You're not much different from him. Both of you could be payed shills for all we know.

The dude you replied to posted an actual deposition from the mother. The word from the horse's mouth as evidence for obvious contradicting statements. And what you have to say? "You posted something that goes aganist my narrative? What are you, a SHILL!‽‽"

Because there's so much money to be made in sticking up for two absolute nobodies versus the most lucrative dead celebrity since Elvis?

Haven't seen the documentary, for all I know MJ could very well be guilty, however I also think that trying to scrub away all traces of MJ's influence from American culture is fucking exceptional. Just accept that people like his music and go after the man himself instead of just blindly attacking fans of it or anything that features or references him. Hell, I even saw some people go after DMC's Faust Hat dance, even though it was likely mocapped 1-2 YEARS before Leaving Neverland even aired. MJ might've been an evil piece of shit, but completely censoring his presence from pop culture will just make his blind supporters look like martyrs.


Example: CNN Talking About Al Jean removing MJ's Simpsons episode

They're not erasing MJ because he was a homosexual pedophile. That hasn't been a secret in showbusiness since the '84 Grammys.

They're erasing MJ because they want to make themselves look better. Every time "Stark Raving Dad" or Men in Black 2 or an '80s music-video marathon or whatever comes on, it makes viewers ask if those involved in production knew who they were working with. And the public can only hear so many stories about sexual predators in the industry, with the phrase "everyone knew" cropping up in every single fucking story about this shit, before even the dumbest flyover cow puts the pieces together.

This is all about PR. If the Estate pulls off yet another Satanic miracle and rehab their golden goose's image, they'll put everything right back where it was.

 

[Saffronette]

This thread has more conspiracy than actual facts.

 

[UE 558]

They're not erasing MJ because he was a homosexual pedophile. That hasn't been a secret in showbusiness since the '84 Grammys.

They're erasing MJ because they want to make themselves look better. Every time "Stark Raving Dad" or Men in Black 2 or an '80s music-video marathon or whatever comes on, it makes viewers ask if those involved in production knew who they were working with. And the public can only hear so many stories about sexual predators in the industry, with the phrase "everyone knew" cropping up in every single fucking story about this shit, before even the dumbest flyover cow puts the pieces together.

This is all about PR. If the Estate pulls off yet another Satanic miracle and rehab their golden goose's image, they'll put everything right back where it was.

That's probably what bugs me most, the fact that it's super obvious that Al Jean is just a greedy businessman covering his own ass as opposed to a moral crusader trying to do what is right

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

This thread has more conspiracy than actual facts.

The United States government pushed the false narrative that Jackson is a pedophile in the 90's because he had information that they were planning the September 11th terrorist attacks and was about to blow the whistle on the whole thing. It was pushed again in 2005 because Jackson had information that could have led to Hillary Clinton's arrest. It is being pushed now because Jackson's ghost was caught snooping through classified Trump Administration documents that prove the Russian Pee-Pee tape conspiracy is true.

Stay. Fucking. Woke.

 

[Truthspeaker]

This thread has more conspiracy than actual facts.

Conspiracies happen all the time. Especially in showbusiness, where constant secrecy about money, sexualities, projects, and drug use are the order of the day. More so when you're dealing with people who lie reflexively, like John Holmes, Sean Murray, Kris Jenner, Donald Trump, Puff Daddy, Ryan Murphy, and Michael Jackson.

But I've noticed you've yet to dispute the meat of anything I've said. Indeed, we're in agreement that Jacko was close friends with dozens of boys; that he shared his bed with these boys; that nothing Maureen Orth has printed met action from the Jacksonites before, or after, his death; that he's been occused by five of his special friends, and that numerous others have said he watched porn with them and gave them drugs snd booze at his sleepovers; that the most obvious defenders, such as his "children" and the Trump Brothers, have been silent for the entirety of this affair.

It's as if we're already in agreement on so much, you can only maintain your position by attacking minor details and ignoring the overwhelming evidence.

You're like a child attacking sandcastles, saying you can do the same thing to mountains.

The United States government pushed the false narrative that Jackson is a pedophile in the 90's because he had information that they were planning the September 11th terrorist attacks and was about to blow the whistle on the whole thing. It was pushed again in 2005 because Jackson had information that could have led to Hillary Clinton's arrest. It is being pushed now because Jackson's ghost was caught snooping through classified Trump Administration documents that prove the Russian Pee-Pee tape conspiracy is true.

Stay. Fucking. Woke.

Given Gayzorfist's support of the Jackson Line, and Jacko's own Trump Tower residency, I'd say the real goal of Jacko was to #MakeAmericaGreatAgain.

 

[Saffronette]

Conspiracies happen all the time. Especially in showbusiness, where constant secrecy about money, sexualities, projects, and drug use are the order of the day. More so when you're dealing with people who lie reflexively, like John Holmes, Sean Murray, Kris Jenner, Donald Trump, Puff Daddy, Ryan Murphy, and Michael Jackson.

But I've noticed you've yet to dispute the meat of anything I've said. Indeed, we're in agreement that Jacko was close friends with dozens of boys; that he shared his bed with these boys; that nothing Maureen Orth has printed met action from the Jacksonites before, or after, his death; that he's been occused by five of his special friends, and that numerous others have said he watched porn with them and gave them drugs snd booze at his sleepovers; that the most obvious defenders, such as his "children" and the Trump Brothers, have been silent for the entirety of this affair.

It's as if we're already in agreement on so much, you can only maintain your position by attacking minor details and ignoring the overwhelming evidence.

You're like a child attacking sandcastles, saying you can do the same thing to mountains.


Given Gayzorfist's support of the Jackson Line, and Jacko's own Trump Tower residency, I'd say the real goal of Jacko was to #MakeAmericaGreatAgain.

Dude I think you should lurk more before coming here. Because people think you're a madman just spouting shit because some other madmen agree with your narrative.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Dude I think you should lurk more before coming here. Because people think you're a madman just spouting shit because some other madmen agree with your narrative.

I also think you should lurk more, because you're white-knighting a rapist and a pedophile.

But since you're not, why dob't you try actually refuting any of the points I made in my previous post rather than this pathetic attempt at deflection.

 

[tyjc]

You joined yesterday, you fucking shill.

As did I, but I joined specifically because I wanted to bring down the S.S. Bad Touch, not prop it up.

How many people have you accused of being a shill on this board now? You can't argue at all.

 

[Truthspeaker]

How many people have you accused of being a shill on this board now? You can't argue at all.

I only accused @iRON-mAn of being a shill, but to be honest, once I had a few more exchanges and looked at his posting history, I'm feeling more charitable.

Your posts come a lot closer to looking like shill posts, but you might just be a stan.

Either way, you've failed miserably to take care of the mountains in your way. You also attack minor details while refusing to address the major issues. Most of your posts since joining have been posts defending Jacko of pedophilia.

I admit, I joined this site because I wanted to post about Jacko being a homosexual pedophile. I did it hear because it seemed like the best free forum to not mince words about showbusiness. I already would've been banned on most sites for calling Gaylor Swift a pussy-eating, closeted dyke in my first post, and it's nice that there are still places where that's not the case.

Why did you join yourself? And if a grown man -- any grown man, even a billionaire or your best friend -- wanted to hold a sleepover with your ten-year-old brother, or cousin, or nephew, or son, are there any circumstances where you'd tell them "yes"? If not, why on Earth is Jacko's case different?

 

[Clockwork_PurBle]

I only accused @iRON-mAn of being a shill, but to be honest, once I had a few more exchanges and looked at his posting history, I'm feeling more charitable.

Your posts come a lot closer to looking like shill posts, but you might just be a stan.

Either way, you've failed miserably to take care of the mountains in your way. You also attack minor details while refusing to address the major issues. Most of your posts since joining have been posts defending Jacko of pedophilia.

I admit, I joined this site because I wanted to post about Jacko being a homosexual pedophile. I did it hear because it seemed like the best free forum to not mince words about showbusiness. I already would've been banned on most sites for calling Gaylor Swift a pussy-eating, closeted dyke in my first post, and it's nice that there are still places where that's not the case.

Why did you join yourself? And if a grown man -- any grown man, even a billionaire or your best friend -- wanted to hold a sleepover with your ten-year-old brother, or cousin, or nephew, or son, are there any circumstances where you'd tell them "yes"? If not, why on Earth is Jacko's case different?

 

[Saffronette]

I also think you should lurk more, because you're white-knighting a rapist and a pedophile.

But since you're not, why dob't you try actually refuting any of the points I made in my previous post rather than this pathetic attempt at deflection.

You didn't really prove anything in your posts. All you do is give conspiracy theories on why MJ is supposedly a gay pedophile. When people actually provided sources about Wade lying about what happened him, you called them a shill. It's incredibly difficult to take what you say seriously.

 

[tyjc]

I only accused @iRON-mAn of being a shill, but to be honest, once I had a few more exchanges and looked at his posting history, I'm feeling more charitable.

Your posts come a lot closer to looking like shill posts, but you might just be a stan.

Either way, you've failed miserably to take care of the mountains in your way. You also attack minor details while refusing to address the major issues. Most of your posts since joining have been posts defending Jacko of pedophilia.

I admit, I joined this site because I wanted to post about Jacko being a homosexual pedophile. I did it hear because it seemed like the best free forum to not mince words about showbusiness. I already would've been banned on most sites for calling Gaylor Swift a pussy-eating, closeted dyke in my first post, and it's nice that there are still places where that's not the case.

Why did you join yourself? And if a grown man -- any grown man, even a billionaire or your best friend -- wanted to hold a sleepover with your ten-year-old brother, or cousin, or nephew, or son, are there any circumstances where you'd tell them "yes"? If not, why on Earth is Jacko's case different?

You already alluded to me being a shill, so don't try and backtrack. I joined KiwiFarms a week before this thread was even created, so unless I'm guilty of time travel too then you are just a paranoid delusional moron.

When anyone posts contradictory evidence in this thread your go-to argument is to just dismiss them as a "stan" or "shill." Your arguments are filled with conjecture and conspiracy theories. You have a few screws loose, dude.

And I've never defended Jackson of pedophilia, I've said multiple times that it's possible he is guilty. The only thing I am arguing is that this "documentary" is a fraud. Those two viewpoints aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Truthspeaker]

So now it's autistic to call people out for covering up one of the most powerful sexual predator and rapist to ever live?

If so, Donny June and Eric are gonna shoot themselves if they ever find Barron grants an interview.

Spoiler

No offense Barron. I get it, taking shots at minors is pretty low; but I'm not taking shots at you, I'm taking shots at your dipshit brothers!

Gotta say, making fun of them's a lot less enjoyable now that I know they were molested by a transracial transexual.

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

So then what do you think Jackson was doing with Wade and James all those nights they spent with him in his bed, alone, at Neverland, in hotels, and on vacations together? Why did MJ want to spend so much time with Wade and James, until they hit puberty and then he dropped them like a bad habit and replaced them with new younger boys?

Why did MJ's bedroom at Neverland door look like this?
Ver archivo adjunto 693450
Those aren't locks to keep his bedroom secure while he's away, those are locks to keep the door secure while he's inside with random little boys at night.

The nights and trips MJ spent with Wade and James are not in dispute by anyone, so I'm not sure why it's hard to believe what they say about what MJ was doing to them during those times he went to great lengths to spend time alone with them. Adult men don't try get little boys alone in the beds over and over again for innocent reasons.

Alright, yeah. He probably did it. After spending more time thinking about it, the things that were causing me doubt were pretty flimsy and could probably be chalked up to the guys not remembering everything correctly.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

And how do we know you're not a shill? You're like the pot calling the kettle black. Just because you admit you joined to talk about how MJ was a pedophile, doesn't mean you're suddenly not a hypocrite (especially since both of you joined just recently). You're not much different from him. Both of you could be payed shills for all we know.

The dude you replied to posted an actual deposition from the mother. The word from the horse's mouth as evidence for obvious contradicting statements. And what you have to say? "You posted something that goes aganist my narrative? What are you, a SHILL!‽‽"

I’m not speaking about people in this thread but there is a lot of shilling and paid defense for Jackson online, has been for years but it spiked significantly due to this documentary being released.

It’s probably noticeable from my posts but years ago the Jackson Family were an early-proto-lolcow family for me because they are so fucking batshit insane. After MJ died I was honestly shocked at the positive coverage he got, because he had ruined his own reputation long ago and had been a pariah for many years. I mean there was a reason he went to live in Bahrain with those weirdos for years.

My interest was renewed about a year after his death, when his estate was being professionally managed amd this machine kicked into gear to erase the actual MJ and sell this sanitized pop icon. I watched for awhile but this documentary and the brand and reputation management machine working for the estate renewed my interest again. It really is about turning a human, a dead one, into a commodity. They want to do for MJ what was done for the Monroe and Elvis estates, Elvis being the best comparison. But Jackson’s child molesting and living during a period when his public behavior was so closely followed, and so fucking bizarre, makes it far more difficult.

The main issue is that the Jackson estate and Sony has a billion dollar vested interest in defending Jackson and the immense value in his music catalog. There really isn’t a comparable vested interest in accusing him. Wade or James cant fund a PR campaign or online force of MJ bashing, neither could the documentary producers. Will the documentary make money? Sure, but it’s mickey Mouse shit compared to the Jackson estate revenue and future revenue. Documentaries have never been big money makers, it’s why major studios almost never make them.

I don’t think Jackson’s music should be banned or erased. If people want to listen to Jackson that’s their choice, I don’t care. But I don’t like seeing a child rapist white washed simply because there’s a lot of money at stake for some corporations.

The Catholic Church fought and denied priests molesting boys for a long time because they feared the lawsuits - lawsuits from victims have bankrupted some diocese where there were proven that pedo priests were protected. Now the church admits there was a big problem and they did protect child molestors and moved them into other parishes and on to more victims.

The Jackson Estate has similar, and very legitimate fears, of the same happening to them. Jackson molested a lot of little boys and they are terrified of the lawsuits that could result from his victims along with the damage to the value of his music catalog, publishing and song rights plummeting in value. If one of his victims wins a civil suit against the estate others will follow - and that terrifies the estate because it’s a huge liability. The estate will pay millions to attornies to combat any claims by victims or quietly make them go away. One public victory by a victim and the entire estate is in jeopardy.

But in all honesty most people do think Jackson raped little boys, but still get out on the dance floor to Billie Jean all the same. Most people attach their own fond memories to his songs, not thoughts about Jackson masturbating ten year olds, which is fine.

Defending Jackson isn’t about protecting Michael - as many have pointed out the dude is dead and buried. This is about a corporation protecting Jackson’s music empire at the expense of the little boys he raped.