Is it possible for Gnosticism (and similar ideologies) to be pro-natal?

[umseriously]

Being honest with you, yes.

Love is commonly cited as one of the only things capable of defeating evil. If you believe that there is a evil force controlling your life or one that created this realm, true love will be one of the few things capable of beating it.

Pro-natalism then becomes a weapon to be used against the demiurge as you can rebel against the evil world by spreading the fruits of goodwill and love across the world. Hell, the Bible even states Satan is the ruler of this world. It's our job to make this world the kingdom of God here. If you are a gnostic, even more so since you don't necessarily believe that death is a escape from this place.

Now if you can't raise kids on your own or with a loved one, that's fine. But, it doesn't mean you can't help out the local community. That leans more towards pro-natalism I think than anti-natalism.

But, you won't find much productive discussion on it here as this place and other sites are obsessed with dick swinging about which philosophy is right. In the end, you'll have to be the judge about it. No one can judge but for you.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Now if you can't raise kids on your own or with a loved one, that's fine. But, it doesn't mean you can't help out the local community. That leans more towards pro-natalism I think than anti-natalism.

Babysitters can be just as important as doctors. The guy who installs the cabinets correctly and follows safety procedures for children may not be able to be a good father, but he knows he can make the world better for the next generation. The adult afraid of passing on bad disability genes or knows they would just be a half assed parent at best can still make the world better.

Some people help by not being a parent. They get to be the crazy uncle, the wacky aunt, the nice person who makes mommy and daddy laugh and helps them with their problems (and take care of themselves!). Even the ones who are the mega autists who can't stand loud noises and commotions, thus children, can help by keeping society running and making the world a better place for everyone. The doordash driver who picks up antibiotics for mom when everyone is sick is still a hero. The guy who autistically makes sure all packages come in on time and things are functional make society smoother for the rest of us, parents and children included.

I'm trying to say don't feel bad about not having children if you don't think you would be a good parent. Keeping society safe and up and running is still important. Helping friends and family with their children for a babysitting day here and there is a godsend. Being a good person is important. And if you can and want to have and raise children, definitely aim for it. Not every parent is perfect, just do your best to love and take care of your child.


Sorry, got off topic. Pro-natalists and anti-natalists can go so extreme that it's BS and we shouldn't be giving so much social pressure on such a huge personal choice between two people. Uh, gnostics are gay and would not sex them.

 

[souschef]

Bhuddism is not pro-natal because in it's foundation it believed being a woman was a punishment and as a woman you could not become Bhodittsava. You had to redo life again.

What? That is completely wrong. Not only there are female bodhisattvas, at least in the mahayana school. but being anti-natal (abortion or any other means) goes directly against the principle of not causing deliberate harm to living beings and this is in all of buddhism schools. It's the very first precept

This is actual buddhism, of course, not the "feng shui white women" nonsense you see going around.

 

[Hojicha]

What? That is completely wrong. Not only there are female bodhisattvas, at least in the mahayana school. but being anti-natal (abortion or any other means) goes directly against the principle of not causing deliberate harm to living beings and this is in all of buddhism schools. It's the very first precept

This is actual buddhism, of course, not the "feng shui white women" nonsense you see going around.

That's modern bhuddism. depending on who you follow and what sect of Buddhism, some have departed from that view with notable women arguing against it- You can find people online arguing about it endlessly. I can go and find them I guess, When I'm not at work

Mahayana is one of the few I could find thats specifically approving of female bhodittsava..., however I did find these which have been interpreted obviously from the Mahayana to be femaleness is not desired
The Lotus Sutra (Saddharmapuṇḍarīka Sūtra
The Sutra of the Fundamental Vows of Kṣitigarbha Bodhisattva (Kṣitigarbha Sūtra
The Sutra of the Master of Healing (Bhaiṣajyaguru-vaidūryaprabha-rāja Sūtra

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

Does homosexuality promote a safe sexual life?

 

[VM_]

In the Gnostic Manichean Empire of the Uyghurs, it was the elect, a small group of ascetic priests who were forbidden to have kids, while the commoners were encouraged to have them in order to keep a functioning society, and more importantly, to support the elect, so yeah, it's possible. Look at some of the older videos on Tibetan village life to see it in play in similar fashion with Tibetan Buddhism and the obvious parallels to medieval Christian serfdom. It all functions a lot like Plato's republic.

 

[Cnidarian]

Bhuddism is not pro-natal because in it's foundation it believed being a woman was a punishment and as a woman you could not become Bhodittsava. You had to redo life again.

So Siddhartha wanted women to stay at home, and I'd assume, keep paying attention to maternal responsibilities?

 

[Hojicha]

So Siddhartha wanted women to stay at home, and I'd assume, keep paying attention to maternal responsibilities?

Yes. And then your husband can meet and fuck his spiritual teacher who's hotter than you and then become ascetic and ascend without you (Kamala)

 

[Cnidarian]

Yes. And then your husband can meet and fuck his spiritual teacher who's hotter than you and then become ascetic and ascend without you (Kamala)

This is very cringe and greekpilled. Another win for Christbros.

 

[Hojicha]

This is very cringe and greekpilled.

it's just what I read

 

[Poopson]

@ur_mom_lmaoooo @umseriously Hell no, contemporary leftoids and gnosticucks are Redditors who don't contribute to the society at all and they wouldn't try to help without becoming parents – "don't you know that everytime somebody pops out a kid, 5 species of Equatorian coconut squirrels go extinct? Please hecking stop breeding and annoying me with your vomit factory crotch larvae, chud." That and the resources people spend on their kids could be taken by the government and redistributed to the Redditors so they can have more loli porn, video games and fast food.
Plus leftoids only really have a problem with wh*te "people" having kids, they don't tell the Ching Changs, Darkies and Kikels to adopt One Child Policy a-la PRC in 1979, because these are the ethnic groups that actually matter to them in the long run.

 

[Ferryman]

I don't know why discussing non-mainstream philosophies makes peoples clittlies leak so much, religion-as-philosophy >>>> (my)religion-as-an-axiom is the enlightened way to view the world. On topic: it is really hard to argue a pro-natalist stance from a Gnostic perspective since the material world (kenoma) is intrinsically viewed as a tragic prison that needs to be escaped, and I think @umseriously probably posits the strongest pro-natalist-gnostic argument you can make. In fact, you can flip it and say that anti-natalism is a failure even by Gnostic standards since most anti-natalist perspectives in $CURRENT_DAY argue about muh economy or muh terrible world or muh suffering o algo, but fail to be the change they want to see in the world, and just fall into this demonic cycle of consumption without any drive for improvement. Even when they find such a drive, it is usually consumptive and self-centered rather than charitable, thus prepetuating the Demiurge's cycle of entrapment and suffering. Of any philosophical school out there, anti-natalism truly is the most cucked.

 

[AMHOLIO]

anti-natalism truly is the most cucked.

Everyone's upset at anti-natalist but they're not breeding so their movement will not be around for more than a few generations, maximum. The bigger problem seems to be with a shitty economy and shitty quality of life that people don't want to reproduce. The people pushing for these shitty situations are businessmen who only care about line go up + golden parachute = so long suckers idc about your next year byeee. The only true anti-natalists are retarded silicone valley and hard leftists cultists who have no social influence outside their circle, because who the fuck listens to those guys?

Gnostics are fun and funny to talk about, but they lost the religious wars over a thousand years ago and modern gnostics are 99% kick the autistic because they're such easy prey. The 1% are hard religious scholars who at least know what they're talking about and could debate you, but that's a very small number compared to the internet mystic lolcow communities. Fuck you dad, I know what the demiurge is!

 

[VM_]

More on the Uyghur gnostic empire.

"The Uyghur Khagans were acutely aware that an empire requires soldiers. While they patronized the Manichaean church and built splendid monasteries for the celibate Elect, they never imposed these ascetic restrictions on the general populace. The commoners remained a robust, reproducing nomadic stock, ensuring that the Khaganate’s military manpower was never compromised by the pacifist doctrines of the elite."— Colin Mackerras, "The Uighur Empire According to the T'ang Dynastic Histories"

"For the Manichaean Hearer, procreation was accommodated within a larger cosmic economy. The Hearer's primary religious duty was not to achieve personal liberation through celibacy, but to reproduce the social and material conditions necessary for the Elect to survive. By having children, the Hearer provided the next generation of laborers and protectors for the Church. What was a spiritual liability in theory became a practical necessity in practice."— Jason BeDuhn, "The Manichaean Body: In Discipline and Ritual"

Baby making plebs would receive absolution through confession, sound familiar?

"If we, by marrying, creating families, and acquiring sons and daughters, have bound the light... we now pray: Manāstar hīrzā (O God, forgive our sins). [By this confession], the Hearer is made clean, his house is blessed, and his lineage is secured under the protection of the King of Light."— The Xwāstvānīft (Manichaean Litany of Confession), Section IV

Interesting note how the merchant based Persian Sogdians were behind the Uyghurs converting, as it boosted trade and, more importantly, their pockets.

 

[Ferryman]

Everyone's upset at anti-natalist but they're not breeding so their movement will not be around for more than a few generations, maximum. The bigger problem seems to be with a shitty economy and shitty quality of life that people don't want to reproduce. The people pushing for these shitty situations are businessmen who only care about line go up + golden parachute = so long suckers idc about your next year byeee. The only true anti-natalists are retarded silicone valley and hard leftists cultists who have no social influence outside their circle, because who the fuck listens to those guys?

Its a sickness vs symptom type situation for sure, the worst of which are traitorous governments that either directly abuse their populace or allow it to be abused by untouchable corporations, groups or other strange cabals. In a sane world all of them would be getting boiled in hydraulic fluid, alongside (((teachers))) and (((influencers))) that tow any line akin to the anti-natalist "child free" propaganda while sipping their XXL Sweet Mocha Pumkpin Spice Niggerdiggeronchinno. Its always either these castrated faggots or bitter harpies that push this shit and poison the vulnerable. Unironically makes me seethe with anger that people I know have directly been affected by the mind virus to the point of it being axiomatic to them. Its just another branch of the boomertarded "fuck you got mine" mind set, fuck every single one of them. I am not upset at the young anti-natalist, I am upset that they have been brain raped and are so difficult to dislodge from the cult.

The way I see it is, we are already raped by the powers that be, but if we refuse to have children despite bad circumstances, we forever eschew the chance to change anything, and will continue to be raped forever. If people could have massive families during the Black Plague or while the Golden Horde was reaving its way across half the world, or while all of Europe was on fire with war, we can find a way to have kids today.