Is it possible for Gnosticism (and similar ideologies) to be pro-natal?

[ur_mom_lmaoooo]

Gnosticism teaches that the material world is evil, corrupt, and/or flawed, and that humans possess an inner, spiritual spark that has become trapped within the physical body and the material realm. Secular pseudo-Gnostic ideologies are even more grim in the sense that they don't believe in a higher spiritual realm at all that the soul is released to upon death; existence in the miserable, corrupt material world is simply followed by non-existence. Intuitively, if someone believes that the material world is evil and living beings are trapped, they probably don't believe in trapping even more souls in evil and suffering via reproduction.

The long-term implications of this belief system, though, is a declining population due to very few births, and thus a decline of what the practitioners are convinced is the true faith. Fewer members means that you can't educate/proselytize as extensively, or enforce adherence to your morally correct beliefs on the rest of the population, because you simply don't have the manpower to do so (leftists/liberals in the contemporary West are beginning to have this exact problem).

This brings me to my question: is it possible for belief systems who view the material world as pointless, suffering, corrupt, evil, exploitative, and other negative things to develop a logically consistent justification for reproduction? The best hypothetical pro-natal reasoning in such a belief system that I can think of would probably be along the lines of "it's our job to make the world less bad/reduce suffering, therefore we need to have enough kids to both spread our beliefs and also do work towards making the evil, corrupt world less painful for the inevitable future generations".

I guess this is basically an extremely convoluted way of asking if you think there's any possibility of Western leftists increasing their birth rates in a way that doesn't violate to their pseudo-Gnostic principles, specifically that the world is hopelessly doomed (whether due to climate change, racism, economic inequality, patriarchy, sexism, capitalism, or whatever their specific neurotic fixation is) and that bringing children into such an evil existence is pointless.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

The only way I could see being Gnostic and pro-natal is thinking having a kid and teaching him Gnosticism gives a reincarnated soul a better chance of escaping the physical.

 

[ur_mom_lmaoooo]

The only way I could see being Gnostic and pro-natal is thinking having a kid and teaching him Gnosticism gives a reincarnated soul a better chance of escaping the physical.

So basically the thought process is "it's inevitable that this soul will be trapped in the physical (because people will always have babies), therefore he might as well be born to me so that I can help him escape"?

 

[ToroidalBoat]

So basically the thought process is "it's inevitable that this soul will be trapped in the physical (because people will always have babies), therefore he might as well be born to me so that I can help him escape"?

Yep. And there could also be what you said about the kid spreading the word of Gnosticism to others.

It seems like a real gamble though, so I don't see many if any Gnostics actually taking such a risk.

 

[Neodanthril]

Gnosticism is spiritual narcissism, so no.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Gnosticism is a whiny faggot religion so I wouldn’t want to bring more gnostics into the world for that reason.

 

[Cnidarian]

You're asking for Buddhism.

 

[Lancers]

You're asking if the religious cult thinking that leads to shit like bringing down heaven to Earth, us being part of God, labels the Christian God as the demiurge that must be defeated to bring out the real God and is a big part of philosophical think tanks from Hegel, Joachim of Flora (who both wanted to immanentize the eschaton to bring about their version of utopia) all the way to Heraclitus and beyond, which all contributed to the later creation of Marxism, socialism etc, can be pro baby making?

Yeah I dont think so man. Like the guy above me said, the best you can do is Buddhism and that also tells you to abandon all Earthly desires and possessions, including children.

 

[Preacher ✝]

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Gnosticism is spiritual narcissism, so no.

How so? Is it that "you're a divine spark trapped in the physical" thing?

 

[Lancers]

How so? Is it that "you're a divine spark trapped in the physical" thing?

It's in the name. Gnosis means knowledge and it signifies that you are enlightened by virtue of being part of the cult. The more into it you are, the more gnosis you have, the more special you are. It's like when scientology tells you about Xenu after you pay them thousands of dollars to advance in their group, it doesn't mean you have useful knowledge but you are special for knowing it,

 

[Hojicha]

You're asking for Buddhism.

Bhuddism is not pro-natal because in it's foundation it believed being a woman was a punishment and as a woman you could not become Bhodittsava. You had to redo life again.

 

[Hojicha]

labels the Christian God as the demiurge that must be defeated to bring out the real God

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

 

[Neodanthril]

How so? Is it that "you're a divine spark trapped in the physical" thing?

Pretty much yeah. It has just been my experience that people who lean toward gnosticism are overly sure of their own intelligence and cannot cope with the idea of a superior being, or are schizophrenic

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Ver archivo adjunto 9093805

Is the Bishop, I presume Catholic?
Expecting a Catholic priest to tune down his (to his perspective) heresy bashing is wild

 

[AMHOLIO]

Is the Bishop, I presume Catholic?
Expecting a Catholic priest to tune down his (to his perspective) heresy bashing is wild

Catholics have the right to bash Gnostics, it's in their blood, established centuries back, you can never take that right away from them.

 

[BIG SHOT Autos]

Catholics have the right to bash Gnostics, it's in their blood, established centuries back, you can never take that right away from them.

I'm not a Catholic but I bash on Gnostics as well, especially considering that I used to dabble in it all myself. There's no way for anyone who truly follows Christ regardless of denomination to support Gnosticism.

 

[AMHOLIO]

I'm not a Catholic but I bash on Gnostics as well, especially considering that I used to dabble in it all myself. There's no way for anyone who truly follows Christ regardless of denomination to support Gnosticism.

Oh, anyone can, I'm only joking it is their divine right to instead of general right to as Ireaneus popped off on them back in 200AD, a little under 2000 years ago. Basically, any church that has Ireaneus as someone important has the obligation to sperg, while non-catholics and non-orthodox have the regular right to sperg.

 

[I Do Not Care]

Gnosticism teaches that the material world is evil, corrupt, and/or flawed, and that humans possess an inner, spiritual spark that has become trapped within the physical body and the material realm

Christianity does too.

Do not be of this world.
The Devil is the ruler of this world.
You are of your father the Devil.
Ye are the Synogague of Satan.

Specifically:
Romans 12:2 - Do not conform to the pattern of this world
John 8:44 - You are of your father the devil
John 12:31 - Now the prince of this world will be driven out
John 14:30 - The prince of this world is coming
2 Corinthians 4:4 - The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers
Ephesians 2:2 - You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He rules the world, and his spirit has power over everyone who doesn't obey God
Revelation 2:9 - are a synagogue of Satan
Revelation 3:9 - those who are of the synagogue of Satan

---

I know fuck all about it since it's only come across my radar more recently. The goal is to reunite with the Father regardless. I may be misreading next part, but sounds like one of the tripartite. The no point seems like Hylics where they're material bound thus unable to be saved. Pointless is also in the Bible. Ecclesiastes 1, whole first half, is all about everything is meaningless, what has been will be again, and nothing new under the sun.

I'd say no? I guess? Solomon was the wisest man, controlled demons, and wrote Ecclesiastes saying it's all pointless. He also had something like 700 wives and 300 concubines if that helps.
I'd probably flip it personally. If we can't create, nor destroy energy, then allow it birth. Being it's unspent energy, not of us, then it's not ours to dictate either way. Same reason why suicide isn't ours to take being not our life to steal.
With 74 million abortions last year alone I don't want to help the demon fucks have another sacrifice if that's what you're getting at basically.

I don't know if less bad is possible honestly. I do know that you don't have to contriubute to the pool like stated above. Same with less painful. Pain is necessary. Leftists face many struggles beyond that. Chooping their own balls off willingly while the other half hates their own kind. Both attone via others. Remove the bad feelings, keep good, and make lopsided. No feeling will ever save you, but they will kill you. No child left behind. Don't hit kids like people are unaware the difference of beating and hitting. Then the whole dumbing down when they're already on a lifeline. ABC is in maths now, you read based on surrounding words and letters, can't write cursive, read time, so become perfect consumer.

 

[Nickel Silver]

Christianity does too.

You're missing crucial details and conflating "world" (Earth and/or the physical realm) with another sense of "world" (the secular/carnal value system that is ruining it). "World" has multiple meanings in the New Testament and you can't just equivocate them. After all, if God so loved the world (John 3:16), why do the apostles teach not to be part of it?

The Bible teaches that the heaven and earth were created by the one true God. Gnostics claim the earth was made by a lesser evil deity. Gnostic "Christians" are effectively polytheistic pagans.

The Bible teaches that creation was good and that Christ was God in the flesh. Gnostics refuse to believe that anything physical could ever be good, therefore Christ never was a mortal man. 2 John 1:7 calls anyone who says this a deceiver and an antichrist. In other words, Gnostics are enemies of Jesus Christ.

And why would that be? Because Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and desires that everyone should know Him, while Gnostics are elitists who pretend to have secret knowledge.

While they may appear to have beliefs concerning the physical realm in common, Christianity and Gnosticism are fundamentally incompatible and Gnostics are going to find themselves in a spiritual realm infinitely worse than their mortal lives if they don't repent.

Solomon wrote about the meaninglessness of life under the sun because falling to his own lusts and courting hundreds of wives and concubines ruined his life. One's life in this mortal realm is not meaningless so long as one fears God and keeps his commandments, for that is the whole duty of man.