Hunters - Serious Revisionist History and Bad Nazi Hunting

[Cyril Sneer]

The humanization is also true for holocaust films like The Pianist. But I feel like modern films don't try that with any villain, even if they aren't nazis. Though I'm not that much of a moviegoer so it might be me being uninformed.

It's been ages since I saw that film, and I was very young at the time, so perhaps I'm forgetting some important plot element, but my recollection of The Pianist is that the German officer keeps the titular character alive merely because he enjoys his piano-playing. In that regard, he's not so much humanized as reduced to a prop in yet another melodrama of Jewish victimhood. Real humanization would require trying to look at the National Socialist project in such a way as to try and see how everything that went down in Germany between 1932 and 1945 might seem reasonable to the Germans themselves at the time, not merely declaring it all to be the result of a mysterious and "virulent, irrational anti-antisemitism" and forbidding further consideration of the matter.

The Nazis are easy villains because there is no moral complexity in killing them as they were unarguably the bad side in a war.

That's the Saturday morning cartoon version of WWII on display, all of the historical context underlying the motivations driving the actions of the major belligerents stripped away to shore up this propaganda-friendly, morally black-and-white fairy tale account of events. It's not like the German forces in WWII were comprised of Orcs imported directly from Mordor, after all (hell, even J.R.R. Tolkien was concerned by the seeming lack of "moral complexity" presented by killing Orcs, perhaps unsurprisingly given that he had actually been a soldier).

Even if you discount the holocaust, they were still the aggressors with a shitty reasoning to their actions.

Which holocaust, exactly? There have been so many, apparently:

As for the question of aggression, the Soviets being the aggressors in the 1939-1940 Winter War (seizing large chunks of Finnish territory and getting expelled from the League of Nations as a result) didn't seem to trouble the British or Americans all that much when allying with them against Germany.

Mind you the dehumanization of the Nazis is something that a lot of groups employ. The Americans can use them to justify their more immoral acts in ww2, other european countries can act like they were all in the 'la' resistance' and political groups can call their opponents nazis through the smallest comparisons.

As for Social Sciences, they have always been mainly sheltered idiots who try to fit their world view in a """scientific""" method. You can't really argue they represent actual jews, othwise the same would apply to christian ones representing every christian person.

I don't really need to, since there appear to be more than enough Jews in the social sciences eager and willing to make that case themselves. Check out the University of London's Stephen Frosh for a particularly enthusiastic (and by no means lonely) example.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Fast-forward two years later and we have this show that depicts the torturing and killing of Nazis when they are in their senior years.

For some reason, this makes me think of Star Trek: Picard, which shows a guy being tortured to death and his eyeball plucked out, and Kathy Griffin holding up a bloody effigy of the President's severed head.

There's a stronger undercurrent of meanness in Current Year popular culture than I've ever seen before. Doesn't seem that long ago the movie Saw was considered shocking. Now we've got TV shows, aimed at the mainstream, proudly showing us torture porn.

It would be easy and glib to blame it on TDS or GooberGrape or Brexit or something but this has been percolating through the media for a while. A kind of free-floating hostility manifesting itself in all kinds of strange ways in media you wouldn't expect (Captain Marvel attacking and humiliating some guy for trying to hit on her is another one).

Dunno what to make of it, but I get the feeling from a lot of modern TV and movies that they're made by hateful, angry people, who are using mass entertainment to live out violent or degrading revenge fantasies.

There's long been a bit of this (the old trope about callous high school Chads and Stacies getting their commeupance was and is a favorite figment of nerdy and poorly socialized writer's imaginations) but it's much more overt now.

Is Hollywood full of sociopaths now? Empathy seems to be rare in the stuff they make. If they're not actively hostile, they're passive-aggressive, like Rian Johnson and his "your Snoke theory sucks" smirking and gleeful trashing of a franchise that used to be optimistic and sincere.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

It's been ages since I saw that film, and I was very young at the time, so perhaps I'm forgetting some important plot element, but my recollection of The Pianist is that the German officer keeps the titular character alive merely because he enjoys his piano-playing. In that regard, he's not so much humanized as reduced to a prop in yet another melodrama of Jewish victimhood. Real humanization would require trying to look at the National Socialist project in such a way as to try and see how everything that went down in Germany between 1932 and 1945 might seem reasonable to the Germans themselves at the time, not merely declaring it all to be the result of a mysterious and "virulent, irrational anti-antisemitism" and forbidding further consideration of the matter.

I saw it more as as the music becoming a common language between the two that bridges their biases. Also, I doubt that you'd want Germans to justify the nazis actions post 1939, where it went to the deep end and the majority was likely to afraid from punishment from stepping out of line.

That's the Saturday morning cartoon version of WWII on display, all of the historical context underlying the motivations driving the actions of the major belligerents stripped away to shore up this propaganda-friendly, morally black-and-white fairy tale account of events. It's not like the German forces in WWII were comprised of Orcs imported directly from Mordor, after all (hell, even J.R.R. Tolkien was concerned by the seeming lack of "moral complexity" presented by killing Orcs, perhaps unsurprisingly given that he had actually been a soldier).

I agree but that's history for you. It rarely goes into the individual realities of the different soldiers, the only thing that matters is how the future judges the actions of your side, and that is true not just for the nazis.

Which holocaust, exactly? There have been so many, apparently:

As for the question of aggression, the Soviets being the aggressors in the 1939-1940 Winter War (seizing large chunks of Finnish territory and getting expelled from the League of Nations as a result) didn't seem to trouble the British or Americans all that much when allying with them against Germany.

That's the same as "slavery" being a common term until being solidified primarily as the slavery of black people. And about the Russians, they were immediately seen as evil post ww2 (ditto in movies like in Red Dawn), so the argument about them not being demonized unlike the Germans is wrong.

Ver archivo adjunto 1173637

...Okay, yeah some jews overuse the holocaust for political brownie points, it's bad behaviour that just hurts Jews overall. But there are however actual historical reasonings around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict beyond the idiots who use the holocaust as an excuse.

I don't really need to, since there appear to be more than enough Jews in the social sciences eager and willing to make that case themselves. Check out the University of London's Stephen Frosh for a particularly enthusiastic (and by no means lonely) example.

I don't really understand your point. On one hand you argue how it is wrong that Germans are being painted by the actions of a few that in no way represent the majority, which is a valid opinion that I agree with. On the hand you try to paint Jews by the actions of a few that in no way represent the majority. So when is it okay? There is no great jewish hivemind.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

I saw it more as as the music becoming a common language between the two that bridges their biases.

Fair enough.

Also, I doubt that you'd want Germans to justify the nazis actions post 1939, where it went to the deep end and the majority was likely to afraid from punishment from stepping out of line.

See below.

I agree but that's history for you. It rarely goes into the individual realities of the different soldiers, the only thing that matters is how the future judges the actions of your side, and that is true not just for the nazis.

That's not a good mindset to adopt, because it simply encourages a win at all costs/devil take the hindmost attitude.

That's the same as "slavery" being a common term until being solidified primarily as the slavery of black people.

In theory. It doesn't explain why newspaper headlines going back to the late 19th century show a recurring and almost ritualistic invocation of specifically "six million" suffering/dying Jews.

And about the Russians, they were immediately seen as evil post ww2 (ditto in movies like in Red Dawn), so the argument about them not being demonized unlike the Germans is wrong.

Hardly. The Soviet Union, or more generally, Communism as a whole, has never really been demonized to the extent that German National Socialism was and continues to be, despite Communists having killed far more people than Hitler's minions before and after WWII. Overty anti-Communist movies like Red Dawn tend to attract opprobrium from prominently placed critics, and the attachment of descriptors like "sick and silly," or "ideologically demented exercise in American paranoia."

...Okay, yeah some jews overuse the holocaust for political brownie points, it's bad behaviour that just hurts Jews overall. But there are however actual historical reasonings around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict beyond the idiots who use the holocaust as an excuse.

I do hope that you're referring to the Israeli affinity for assassination and terrorism as political tools, both before and after achieving statehood recognition.

I don't really understand your point. On one hand you argue how it is wrong that Germans are being painted by the actions of a few that in no way represent the majority, which is a valid opinion that I agree with.

Perhaps you don't understand because that's not the point I'm actually making. My overarching argument here is that WWII Germany is held to a hypocritical double standard by modern western culture when compared to things like the Western allies firebombing German cities, nuking Japanese ones, presenting Marines sending the skulls of their enemies home to their girlfriends as a bit of light humor, starving German POWs to death in the millions in the immediate post-war period or almost literally anything that the Soviets did prior to or during the war.

On the hand you try to paint Jews by the actions of a few that in no way represent the majority. So when is it okay? There is no great jewish hivemind.

You keep using these strawman/false dilemma fallacies. I'm not saying that there is a Jewish hivemind, or that all Jews have a mindset like Adorno, Arendt or Milgram, and trying to carry on as though I am just makes you look rather desperate to avoid confronting the fact that for one reason or another, large numbers of Jews historically have been attracted to subversive social movements like Feminism, Anarchism, Communism and the like. Indeed, self-consciously Jewish scholars like Frosh will even go so far as to celebrate this tendency. This also, I would say, is "bad behaviour that just hurts Jews overall."

 

[Sayon]

All war is either good against good or bad against bad or just a mass of clashing colors until sheer grey.

 

[Ruin]

I don't think anyone pointed this out yet but the "Nazi Hunters" in this show are well off highly educated urbanites and their victims have been less so. This is not only a nasty racial revenge fantasy but a classist one as well.

Hollywood is still remarkably butthurt over 2016.

 

[Übertroon]

I fucking hate how everyone wants to shit-talk her, just because she had the bad luck to be born and come of age in Germany at the 'wrong' time. Her talent and ability is without question, and the movies that she made and the work that she did is phenomenal in timeless beauty and spectacle. At a time when nobody really knew what to do with the new media of film she grasped intuitively the power it offered, like Prometheus, and showed to the world the majesty of celluloid. Like Prometheus, she too was condemned for crimes and made to suffer unfairly.

Instead of sperging further, just watch part of Olympia. You can find some pretty good HD rips online easily.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=HHt927h9B5YThe dynamism of the camera movements, the capturing of humans diving - as if in flight, the beams of light and swelling orchestral music, is somber and uplifting. The games have ended, yet they were but a moment in the history of mankind's struggle to achieve ever greater feats of beauty and skill - the struggle that transcends borders and language, a drive that springs from the heart, a universal yearning to be as the perfect image of God and ascend to the Heavens, worthy and whole.

Makes me cry every time I watch.

Camerawork isn't as impressive, but Kolberg is quite a astounding production for its time, the amount of soldiers and formations would not be seen until Waterloo in 1970

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

That's not a good mindset to adopt, because it simply encourages a win at all costs/devil take the hindmost attitude.

But it is how humans look back on history. The winners and survivors write the history after all.

In theory. It doesn't explain why newspaper headlines going back to the late 19th century show a recurring and almost ritualistic invocation of specifically "six million" suffering/dying Jews.

I'm not really familiar about those type of theories so I can't really answer about that.

Hardly. The Soviet Union, or more generally, Communism as a whole, has never really been demonized to the extent that German National Socialism was and continues to be, despite Communists having killed far more people than Hitler's minions before and after WWII. Overty anti-Communist movies like Red Dawn tend to attract opprobrium from prominently placed critics, and the attachment of descriptors like "sick and silly," or "ideologically demented exercise in American paranoia."

It has still been demonized though. With the more flattering outlook towards it being mainly a result of 90's counter-culture and modern globalism trying to expand country (and thus it''s own) power.

I do hope that you're referring to the Israeli affinity for assassination and terrorism as political tools, both before and after achieving statehood recognition.

Before statehood recognition it's the more moral gray area, with some organizations going even after civilians rather than military targets. After statehood recognition the targets were, as far as I'm aware, terrorist leaders with the assassinations usually killing a good chunk of the street around the target. Not a clear morality, I'll agree but in the end it's not clear black and white (and europe is currently suffering from being unable to take drastic measures against people who endanger the civilians within).

Perhaps you don't understand because that's not the point I'm actually making. My overarching argument here is that WWII Germany is held to a hypocritical double standard by modern western culture when compared to things like the Western allies firebombing German cities, nuking Japanese ones, presenting Marines sending the skulls of their enemies home to their girlfriends as a bit of light humor, starving German POWs to death in the millions in the immediate post-war period or almost literally anything that the Soviets did prior to or during the war.

I agree it's a double standard, I just don't see how jews are involved when the people clearly benefitting from it from your description are primarily non-jews.

You keep using these strawman/false dilemma fallacies. I'm not saying that there is a Jewish hivemind, or that all Jews have a mindset like Adorno, Arendt or Milgram, and trying to carry on as though I am just makes you look rather desperate to avoid confronting the fact that for one reason or another, large numbers of Jews historically have been attracted to subversive social movements like Feminism, Anarchism, Communism and the like. Indeed, self-consciously Jewish scholars like Frosh will even go so far as to celebrate this tendency. This also, I would say, is "bad behaviour that just hurts Jews overall."

In the context of history jews were discrimated against. It lead them to join subversive social movements that promised to remove the discrimination, however it also lead other, non-jews, that had their own self-agency and gave those groups the vast majority of its power. You'd even find Jews that joined nationalist organizations because they thought that Nationalism would consider them equal citizens. We now know that the ideologies were (except feminism in its beginning) destructive, but such information was not as easily known back then.
But regardless, most Jews were just people trying to live regularly rather than try a coup and it's unfair to include them with the crazier people that shared their religion (and in the case of Communism wanted to remove religion alltogether).

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

Hearing about all this misinformation regarding the Third Reich makes me want to see a biopic that goes into Hitler himself and exactly why he was the way he was. Most movies are hands off about it and only talk about figures surrounding the man and not the man himself, which is something I've noticed going all the way back to the 2000s.

 

[murdered meat bag]

Hearing about all this misinformation regarding the Third Reich makes me want to see a biopic that goes into Hitler himself and exactly why he was the way he was. Most movies are hands off about it and only talk about figures surrounding the man and not the man himself, which is something I've noticed going all the way back to the 2000s.

Just send a man to brooklyn or any other jew enclave.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

There's no torturing for information like some shitty 24 parody, its information gathering, infiltration, observation. You know, the real shit? Not 'tie octogenarian to chair and torture until he answers your questions'. I swear that's 90% of the Nazi killing in this fucking show.

They literally use witch hunting methods to get confessions.

 

[ZMOT]

I agree it's a double standard, I just don't see how jews are involved when the people clearly benefitting from it from your description are primarily non-jews.

without going too much into it, 75 years of "woe is me, 6 million" has been very financially and politically lucrative, not to mention having an easy victim card to play whenever you need to. if they want to or not they will be viewed through that lens.

But regardless, most Jews were just people trying to live regularly rather than try a coup and it's unfair to include them with the crazier people that shared their religion (and in the case of Communism wanted to remove religion alltogether).

and most germans were rabid jew-killers sharpening knives in the their spare time trawling the streets for people with big noses? or was it just some crazier people that shared their nationality? it's not that easy and simple.

in the end I'd be more concerned where we going with this. it's easy to argue about who did what how back then, but what's the purpose of producing this dreck now? I highly doubt many people will say "you know what, the nazis are bad! I really need to vote for hillary now!", but it will have an effect on the crazy people in which "normal people just trying to live live regularly" will be unfairly included, one side or the other. same way the majority of russians and chinese were. you know what they say about people that don't learn from history.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

in the end I'd be more concerned where we going with this. it's easy to argue about who did what how back then, but what's the purpose of producing this dreck now? I highly doubt many people will say "you know what, the nazis are bad! I really need to vote for hillary now!", but it will have an effect on the crazy people in which "normal people just trying to live live regularly" will be unfairly included, one side or the other. same way the majority of russians and chinese were. you know what they say about people that don't learn from history.

It's a sermon, or, rather, liturgy. (Sermons typically have at least some original content.) Hollywood doesn't have a moral compass that doesn't have WW2 as the Irreligious Holy War against the Secular Antichrist, which is why they're still beating us over the head with this shit despite it being over for 75 fucking years now. I've repeatedly commented that Germany needs to get the fuck over WW2, but honestly, most of the western world needs to do so as well.

 

[Dom Cruise]

For some reason, this makes me think of Star Trek: Picard, which shows a guy being tortured to death and his eyeball plucked out, and Kathy Griffin holding up a bloody effigy of the President's severed head.

There's a stronger undercurrent of meanness in Current Year popular culture than I've ever seen before. Doesn't seem that long ago the movie Saw was considered shocking. Now we've got TV shows, aimed at the mainstream, proudly showing us torture porn.

It would be easy and glib to blame it on TDS or GooberGrape or Brexit or something but this has been percolating through the media for a while. A kind of free-floating hostility manifesting itself in all kinds of strange ways in media you wouldn't expect (Captain Marvel attacking and humiliating some guy for trying to hit on her is another one).

Dunno what to make of it, but I get the feeling from a lot of modern TV and movies that they're made by hateful, angry people, who are using mass entertainment to live out violent or degrading revenge fantasies.

There's long been a bit of this (the old trope about callous high school Chads and Stacies getting their commeupance was and is a favorite figment of nerdy and poorly socialized writer's imaginations) but it's much more overt now.

Is Hollywood full of sociopaths now? Empathy seems to be rare in the stuff they make. If they're not actively hostile, they're passive-aggressive, like Rian Johnson and his "your Snoke theory sucks" smirking and gleeful trashing of a franchise that used to be optimistic and sincere.

This is something I've noticed myself, you see stuff in media today that goes beyond the stupidity and cynicism of times past and can only really be described as evil or at least way more mean spirited than anything I've really seen before from mainstream media.

 

[Terrorist]

The thing about Operation Paperclip is it was a lesser of two evils thing, if we hadn't taken the scientists the Russians simply would have and better us than them, that's all there is to it, the Soviets were as evil a force in the world as the Nazis and any leg up we could get over them was necessary.

Anyone remember the Nazi death camp guard, who was living in Queens, New York for decades, that was deported to stand trial in 2018? I recall how this was downplayed (because it was done by the Trump Administration) and some saying that him being taken out on stretcher was humiliating. Fast-forward two years later and we have this show that depicts the torturing and killing of Nazis when they are in their senior years.

And for an update on this guard, Jakiw Palij. He was never prosecuted in Germany and died in a nursing home last year.

Paperclip was undeniably a good idea. Without it, we wouldn't have most of the tech we take for granted today. The only argument against it is a moral one, but even that's bullshit. If everyone who ever worked for the Axis is irredeemable and must be thrown in the trash, why not lock up every German, Japanese, and Italian man of a certain age?

Sounds ridiculous until you realize that's what TPTB actually believe must happen (not just to Nawtzees but all white westerners as retribution for the original sins of racism and especially anti-semitism) as we see with Jakiw Palij, and this show.

 

[KiwiJoe]

Makes me wonder which media is worse in terms of overt woke-cringe. Wolfenstein 2 or this?

 

[Fuck Y'all]

Makes me wonder which media is worse in terms of overt woke-cringe. Wolfenstein 2 or this?

Battlefield V

 

[KiwiJoe]

Battlefield V

Wasn't the cringe there only in the MP customization? I haven't played much of BFV nor read into it a lot. But I heard that BFV has a pretty decent campaign level where you play as a German tanker and it even got dangerhairs complaining about making them look human.

 

[Fuck Y'all]

Wasn't the cringe there only in the MP customization? I haven't played much of BFV nor read into it a lot. But I heard that BFV has a pretty decent campaign level where you play as a German tanker and it even got dangerhairs complaining about making them look human.

I mean trailer drama when one of the devs said about the addition of Wolfenstein rejected designs "he feels being on right side of history" or something like that

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

Wasn't the cringe there only in the MP customization? I haven't played much of BFV nor read into it a lot. But I heard that BFV has a pretty decent campaign level where you play as a German tanker and it even got dangerhairs complaining about making them look human.

There were decent campaigns, like the one you mention, or the tirailleur campaign, but there was also the complete bastardization of Operation Freshman (the commando raid on the chemical plant producing heavy water).

They could have chosen so many real-life scenarios. French or Dutch resistance, where women were often spies, carrying out extremely dangerous missions. The Night Witches or the female snipers in the USSR. There was also Mariya Oktyabrskaya, the woman who wanted to avenge her fallen husband so much she purchased and donated a T-34 tank, and was allowed to command it. Female partisans in Poland or Yugoslavia.
No, they've decided to appropriate history and bastardize a well-known commando raid.
Well, at least they didn't make them troons. "You see, they were ackhually brave&fierce transwomyn, who saved the Allied Countries despite being so oppressed!"