Opinion How Is Keeping up Confederate Statues Patriotic?

How Is Keeping up Confederate Statues Patriotic?

By Ben Cohen
June 14, 2020


(JNS) — The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) agreed last week to the removal of a small number of headstones in U.S. military cemeteries that were engraved with the Nazi swastika and the Iron Cross.
The stones marked the graves of captive German soldiers who were interred at two cemeteries in this country after World War II—Fort Sam Houston National Cemetery in Texas and Fort Douglas Post Cemetery in Utah. In addition to the offending symbols, their headstones also carried the following inscription: “He died far from his home for the Führer, people and fatherland.”
One might have assumed that, given their content, removing the headstones would not have been an issue for the VA. In fact, the department’s first response was to insist that they remain in place. In a mid-May letter to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), an advocacy group that brought the headstones’ existence to light, the VA argued that it had a “duty” to preserve the markers. But then several members of Congress objected to the presence of the headstones, leading the department to reverse its initial decision. It was “understandably upsetting to our veterans and their families to see Nazi inscriptions near those who gave their lives for this nation,” VA Secretary Robert Wilkie acknowledged at the beginning of June. “That’s why the VA will initiate the process required to replace these POW headstones.”
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RICHMOND, VA – JUNE 11: Workers remove a police memorial statue covered in red paint by protesters on June 11, 2020 in Richmond, Virginia. protesters also tore down statues of Christopher Columbus and Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of the America during the Civil War. (Photo by Zach Gibson/Getty Images)
Not surprisingly, amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic and the Black Lives Matter protests sparked by the police murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, the Nazi graves spat at the VA didn’t receive much media airplay. Still, the issues raised by this episode, along with its outcome, are relevant to the ongoing national clash over the continued presence of Confederate statues and war memorials in U.S. cities.
The last time that the visual baggage of the Confederacy animated the country to this extent was in 2017, with the violent white-supremacist show of force in Charlottesville, Va. Back then, as now, U.S. President Donald Trump made no secret of where he stood, using his Twitter feed to decry “the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments” and asking rhetorically, “Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson—who’s next, Washington, Jefferson?”
Trump made the same point in similar fashion amid the latest round of protests against racism, which have included widespread demands for the renaming of U.S. military bases named in honor of Confederate commanders. “These Monumental and very Powerful Bases have become part of a Great American Heritage, and a history of Winning, Victory, and Freedom,” he tweeted—again, glibly subsuming the secessionist, slave-owning Confederacy within the broad, triumphant sweep of American history.
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President Trump holds up a Bible outside of St. John’s Episcopal church across Lafayette Park in Washington, D.C., on Monday.
Brendan Smialowski/AFP via Getty Images
This is a deeply suspect line of argument, and the episode over the presence of Nazi headstones in our military cemeteries helps explain why.
In that example, what was being objected to was not the physical remains of the German POWs, but the horrendous manner in which that presence was acknowledged. Some neutral inscription on the headstones would have been respectful and civilized, and a far cry from the encomium to Hitler that ended up on them. With the removal of the headstones, an unseemly wrong—the presence of the symbols of a mortal enemy in the very locations where American veterans are buried—has been righted. And I would argue that the same moral logic applied here should apply to the Confederate memorabilia around us.
What was being objected to was not the physical remains of the German POWs, but the horrendous manner in which that presence was acknowledged.
Now, you might object that one cannot in decency compare the officers and soldiers of the Confederacy with the external enemy that was Nazi Germany. After all, many leading Confederates, including Braxton Bragg, for whom the famous base in North Carolina is named, and Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy, were honored veterans of the Mexican-American war of 1846-48, and considered to be great and sage patriots. The Civil War they helped initiate a little more than a decade later was not the result of outside aggression, according to this argument, but a tragic conflict within the American family that politics alone was not able to resolve.
This interpretation of history is one of the factors behind Trump’s vocal rejection of the removal of Confederate memorials. It might seem patriotic, but in reality, it isn’t—not least because the values and the vision of American society that the Confederacy represented had eventually to be defeated on the battlefield at what was, especially by the standards of that time, a staggering human cost.
In institutional terms, some current signs can be seen of a move against the commemoration of the Confederacy. Defense Secretary Mark Esper has mooted a “bipartisan discussion” on the renaming of military bases, while the U.S. Navy has outlawed the display of Confederate flags aboard its ships and in other facilities. But as the Jewish experience reminds us only too well, changes in institutional behavior aren’t necessarily mirrored in public opinion. Especially with Trump in the White House, the segment of opinion that twists its perverse regard for the Confederacy into an American value will continue to assert itself aggressively.
If we are no longer prepared to tolerate Nazi symbols as an ongoing presence in our military cemeteries, then we should treat the symbols of the Confederate betrayal of the United States in a similar manner.
The only response to this misrepresentation is to point to the historical record. “These bases are, after all, federal installations, home to soldiers who swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States,” the former head of the CIA, Gen. David Petraeus, wrote recently in The Atlantic. “The irony of training at bases named for those who took up arms against the United States, and for the right to enslave others, is inescapable to anyone paying attention.” If we are no longer prepared to tolerate Nazi symbols as an ongoing presence in our military cemeteries, then we should treat the symbols of the Confederate betrayal of the United States in a similar manner.
Ben Cohen is a New York City-based journalist and author who writes a weekly column on Jewish and international affairs for JNS.


 
Staying with the question posed by the article:
Keeping their statues serves a two-fold purpose. On the one hand it gives you a teachable moment whereby you can go to the statue and learn about the person and their deeds. It shows the dynamic nature of humanity and how we are all capable of both great good and great evil, sometimes simultaneously. The second purpose is to demonstrate how far we as a nation have come; we can respect our adversaries in both victory and defeat and it shows our unyielding patriotism to ourselves and to the causes we believe in.

To the people of their time and locale, these generals and advisors and business owners and slave drivers were heroes because they stood up for their land and their people and what they believed in. The CSA's goal was never to destroy the USA, they simply wanted to break off and be left alone. And the USA for their part did not want to destroy the CSA, they wanted to keep them in the fold and retain a strong, singular union.

And it is on that point that I would claim that the so-called goals of this current movement are not patriotic and they are not constructive. These people would destroy history and work to undo a century and a half of reconciliation and improvement. Their goal is not to further any understanding outside of "this is bad and you should feel bad", there are no lessons being offered, and there is nothing being built. They are tearing things down and destroying them. That is not noble, that is barbarism.
 
It's historical value you stupid fuck. In a nation which is not even 250 years old, shit like that matters to the people who live there. America doesn't have 1000 year old medieval or dark age castles or churches or vast palaces like most of the world to rely on. its history is brief and can be found in the statues, flags, weapons and documents. It's a modern country and people should fight to keep those statues and items alive, because they matter.

This is all straight out of the communist playbook. Destroy statues we don't like, destroy books/information/entertainment we don't like, replace with worship of things we do like.
This shit was all put up 50 to 75 years after the war ended with the express purpose of GLORIFYING the slave owning rebel traitors.
 
When the US breaks up into 7 or 8 balkanized states will the confederate statue issue drag on? Probably, retarded ideas never die.
 
lol these aren't Assyrian carvings most of them are 50-100 years old at most, they're not historical.
I wish there was a "full retard" rating, cause this deserves it.


Its legit scary how retarded most posters in this subforum are
They aren't actually here to laugh at anything, this is their special argue over the news like it matters to anyone forum. Theyve been banned from everywhere else for being too fucking autistic.
 
Exactly. It was put up specifically to intimidating black people
That is also a fair point, some of these statues and monuments were constructed in the early 20th century as a means of sticking it to the freed people and those suffering under oppressive laws; as a reminder about who was in charge. And over time our nation has improved and gotten better. We can reclaim all of these things and use them to teach valuable lessons about ourselves. Destroying them relegates the very nuance you bring up to the bin of history where nobody can take a lesson from it.

Furthermore, there are also people that do revere some of these bad men for their heroic deeds. People are dynamic, they have many sides to their being. You can be a hero to your county or your state or your nation while also having done bad things. Your memory can be used as both a reminder of heroism and a reminder of oppression simultaneously. You can't simply tear it apart because some aspect of it is tainted with sin; if there is no redemption for the living or the dead and no teachable moments surrounding the sins of the past, we can never move forward.

I have to laugh particularly at the removal of the Christopher Columbus statues. There are so many nuances to that guy that are worth teaching, that can both show his contributions to exploration, business, and persuasion while also displaying how foolish he was, his cruelty, and his greed. To whitewash any historical figure as "just evil" because people were and are shitty is to celebrate ignorance.

Every one of these statues should have placards near them that discuss the conflicts and contradictions that many of these people have. And the local guides should be empowered to have these discussions with their groups about how America has been founded by great and conflicted individuals. These are the same conflicts and contradictions that any one of us also has. That is one of the reasons the United States has been so successful; we have been able to look at those around us and see the good and the evil inside of us all. What of the great Americans that did wrong and came to realize their errors? Are they also tainted by this indelible sin and therefore deserving to be erased from our memory? What of good people that have become evildoers? They have lessons to teach us as well.

The statues are just pieces of stone but the humans behind the statues are a universe unto themselves. Maybe bad men built the statue to send a message, but it is up to us what we do with that message. And if all we can do is riot and loot and destroy, then for all of our technology and knowledge we are no better than the Roman Emperors and Muslim Caliphs that desecrated the Great Library.
 
I honestly have no idea how to respond to this....... you have me at a total loss..... if you can't see it right there, I have nothing further to add.

There are WWII monuments in Germany... should we tear them down because they fought for Hitler?

There are Confederate statues to those who fought, there isn't a single one of a white man standing on the back of black man sayin "AIn't Slavery Great!?" just as there's no statue of Hitler himself gassing Jews in Germany

The two are not the same. A statue to a Civil War soldier is not a 1 to 1 equivalent of HITLER, come on....

Honor the soldier if not the war.
Please don't honor generals.

That is also a fair point, some of these statues and monuments were constructed in the early 20th century as a means of sticking it to the freed people and those suffering under oppressive laws; as a reminder about who was in charge. And over time our nation has improved and gotten better. We can reclaim all of these things and use them to teach valuable lessons about ourselves. Destroying them relegates the very nuance you bring up to the bin of history where nobody can take a lesson from it.

Furthermore, there are also people that do revere some of these bad men for their heroic deeds. People are dynamic, they have many sides to their being. You can be a hero to your county or your state or your nation while also having done bad things. Your memory can be used as both a reminder of heroism and a reminder of oppression simultaneously. You can't simply tear it apart because some aspect of it is tainted with sin; if there is no redemption for the living or the dead and no teachable moments surrounding the sins of the past, we can never move forward.

I have to laugh particularly at the removal of the Christopher Columbus statues. There are so many nuances to that guy that are worth teaching, that can both show his contributions to exploration, business, and persuasion while also displaying how foolish he was, his cruelty, and his greed. To whitewash any historical figure as "just evil" because people were and are shitty is to celebrate ignorance.

Every one of these statues should have placards near them that discuss the conflicts and contradictions that many of these people have. And the local guides should be empowered to have these discussions with their groups about how America has been founded by great and conflicted individuals. These are the same conflicts and contradictions that any one of us also has. That is one of the reasons the United States has been so successful; we have been able to look at those around us and see the good and the evil inside of us all. What of the great Americans that did wrong and came to realize their errors? Are they also tainted by this indelible sin and therefore deserving to be erased from our memory? What of good people that have become evildoers? They have lessons to teach us as well.

The statues are just pieces of stone but the humans behind the statues are a universe unto themselves. Maybe bad men built the statue to send a message, but it is up to us what we do with that message. And if all we can do is riot and loot and destroy, then for all of our technology and knowledge we are no better than the Roman Emperors and Muslim Caliphs that desecrated the Great Library.
Most of the statues are constructed by Confederate veteran organizations
 
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