HBO’s Watchmen - NOTHING EVER ENDS...Except When It Should

[Cpl. Long Dong Silver]

Only the deranged mind of a heeb could come up with such a shit interpretation of a classic

 

[Zaryiu]

Well, Lovecraft encouraged other people, including fans, to write their own stories that contributed to the "Cthulhu mythos" and that took place in the same shared universe. So it's not as if he would have been too upset by the idea, probably.

True but it was not a good comic imo

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

Agreed, there wasn't nearly enough fish rape.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Agreed, there wasn't nearly enough fish rape.

Ever watch Humanoids from the Deep?

 

[XYZpdq]

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Alan-Moore-s-Neonomicon

Add this to why I think Alan Moore word should be taken with a grain of salt

Spoiler: Tell me this isn't straight out of something out of a fanfic

Alan Moore on Neonomicon: "Lovecraft was sexually squeamish; would only talk of ‘certain nameless rituals.’ Or he’d use some euphemism: ‘blasphemous rites.’ It was pretty obvious, given that a lot of his stories detailed the inhuman offspring of these ‘blasphemous rituals’ that sex was probably involved somewhere along the line. But that never used to feature in Lovecraft’s stories, except as a kind of suggested undercurrent. So I thought, let’s put all of the unpleasant racial stuff back in, let’s put sex back in. Let’s come up with some genuinely ‘nameless rituals’: let’s give them a name."[ What does mean by adding sex back in? (Bear was a FBI agent btw) "Brears is locked in a room with a fishman, which rapes her continuously for several days. During this ordeal Brears has a vision of Carcosa, who reveals himself as an avatar of Nyarlathotep, one of the Great Old Ones.
The creature tastes a drop of Brears' urine and determines that she is pregnant. It helps her escape through underwater tunnels into the ocean. Brears returns to the city and contacts the FBI, instructing them to raid the specialty shop. They find that the cultists have been killed by the fishman, which is gunned down by the agents. Three months later, Brears visits Sax and is able to understand his gibberish as Aklo, the language of the fishmen. She tells him that she is pregnant with the child of the fishman. She realizes that the events in Lovecraft's fiction are actually premonitions of a future apocalypse that will be heralded by the birth of her child, Cthulhu."

So yeah, I recall Moore hates when his stories get altered, isn't this technically altering or tweaking with Lovecraft story(ies)?

Yeah as much as Moore gets assblasted about not keeping to his vision, most of "his" vision is grimderping up a bunch of other people's stuff.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Ever watch Humanoids from the Deep?

I have, what a movie!

 

[HeyYou]

Well, Lovecraft encouraged other people, including fans, to write their own stories that contributed to the "Cthulhu mythos" and that took place in the same shared universe. So it's not as if he would have been too upset by the idea, probably.

So Lovecraft was much less of a dick than Moore, then.

EDIT: And yeah, I don't think he would have been a big fan of Moore's take on his mythos, either. Moore doesn't even try to get his style right.

 

[Kacho]

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Alan-Moore-s-Neonomicon

Add this to why I think Alan Moore word should be taken with a grain of salt

Spoiler: Tell me this isn't straight out of something out of a fanfic

Alan Moore on Neonomicon: "Lovecraft was sexually squeamish; would only talk of ‘certain nameless rituals.’ Or he’d use some euphemism: ‘blasphemous rites.’ It was pretty obvious, given that a lot of his stories detailed the inhuman offspring of these ‘blasphemous rituals’ that sex was probably involved somewhere along the line. But that never used to feature in Lovecraft’s stories, except as a kind of suggested undercurrent. So I thought, let’s put all of the unpleasant racial stuff back in, let’s put sex back in. Let’s come up with some genuinely ‘nameless rituals’: let’s give them a name."[ What does mean by adding sex back in? (Bear was a FBI agent btw) "Brears is locked in a room with a fishman, which rapes her continuously for several days. During this ordeal Brears has a vision of Carcosa, who reveals himself as an avatar of Nyarlathotep, one of the Great Old Ones.
The creature tastes a drop of Brears' urine and determines that she is pregnant. It helps her escape through underwater tunnels into the ocean. Brears returns to the city and contacts the FBI, instructing them to raid the specialty shop. They find that the cultists have been killed by the fishman, which is gunned down by the agents. Three months later, Brears visits Sax and is able to understand his gibberish as Aklo, the language of the fishmen. She tells him that she is pregnant with the child of the fishman. She realizes that the events in Lovecraft's fiction are actually premonitions of a future apocalypse that will be heralded by the birth of her child, Cthulhu."

So yeah, I recall Moore hates when his stories get altered, isn't this technically altering or tweaking with Lovecraft story(ies)?

Moore gets butthurt about people using and adapting Watchmen but most of the characters in Watchmen were based on existing Charlton Comics characters he wanted to have his way with. Nite Owl = Blue Beetle. Manhattan = Captain Atom. Rorschach = Question. The League was just a blatant collection of other peoples characters. He's a hypocritical old codger. His addled commie brain probably hates copyright and private ownership but gets upset when other people use his creations. Funny how that works. And most of his successes were on the backs of the creations of others.

Imagine an alternate timeline where Doyle is ranting on Twitter about Moore soiling Holmes and Moriarty.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Yeah as much as Moore gets assblasted about not keeping to his vision, most of "his" vision is grimderping up a bunch of other people's stuff.

Moore gets butthurt about people using and adapting Watchmen but most of the characters in Watchmen were based on existing Charlton Comics characters he wanted to have his way with. Nite Owl = Blue Beetle. Manhattan = Captain Atom. Rorschach = Question. The League was just a blatant collection of other peoples characters. He's a hypocritical old codger. His addled commie brain probably hates copyright and private ownership but gets upset when other people use his creations. Funny how that works. And most of his successes were on the backs of the creations of others.

Imagine an alternate timeline where Doyle is ranting on Twitter about Moore soiling Holmes and Moriarty.

But to be fair, he at least does a fucking outstanding job of putting his own spin on other's work and when the same is done to his own works, it usually sucks, case in point this Watchmen TV series.

It's also important to remember that what Moores does is not anything real unique, literally everything takes inspiration and influence from other things, nothing is made in a vacuum, Moore may be a little more obvious in his inspirations than others, but I don't think anyone can deny he's puts a spin on things that is uniquely his.

 

[Kacho]

But to be fair, he at least does a fucking outstanding job of putting his own spin on other's work and when the same is done to his own works, it usually sucks, case in point this Watchmen TV series.

It's also important to remember that what Moores does is not anything real unique, literally everything takes inspiration and influence from other things, nothing is made in a vacuum, Moore may be a little more obvious in his inspirations than others, but I don't think anyone can deny he's puts a spin on things that is uniquely his.

Even though I think Moore is a bitter old hypocritical zealot I still like his work a lot and think if he wasn't the zany eccentric hermit he is, his stuff wouldn't be nearly as good. There's usually a bizarre person behind a visionary work. Like if Jason Alexander wasn't a little bit of a scumbag he wouldn't be able to convincingly portray a character like George Costanza.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

So how many are mad about the Dr Manhattan reveal?

 

[Devilish Jack o Lantern]

So how many are mad about the Dr Manhattan reveal?

It’s exceptional

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

So Lovecraft was much less of a dick than Moore, then.

EDIT: And yeah, I don't think he would have been a big fan of Moore's take on his mythos, either. Moore doesn't even try to get his style right.

The later parts of it actually do ok, just not the fish rape comic.

 

[Dr. Geronimo]

Y'all gonna make me download this damn show just to see how awful it is.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

It’s exceptional

Dr M a playa lol
Who wrote this horseshit?

 

[Devilish Jack o Lantern]

Dr M a playa lol
Who wrote this horseshit?

The guy who brought us Cowboys Vs Ailens.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

The guy who brought us Cowboys Vs Ailens.

I actually like Cowboys vs Aliens as a fun way to waste some time but looks like the writer is a one (minor) hit wonder.

 

[Lemmingwise]

This is such an incredibly weird take on his own creation that I have trouble understanding it.

I can see Moore creating that ending because he wants people to debate if Rorschach did the "right thing" by insisting on chaotic and probably violent truth over a monstrously abusive and authoritarian lie that could lead to peace. That's a tough, complicated call to make, and reasonable people can disagree on it. I thought that was the point of the ending.

But ultimately if Rorschach is wrong, doesn't that mean 1984's Big Brother is correct to memoryhole the truth as long as they have the "right" motivations? (And who decides what is right?) How can Moore support that position?

Maybe he isn't. Maybe he's just disagreeing with the position most people will take because he's a contrarian and because it will cause more debate. Or maybe he's saying that Rorschach's motivations are selfish.

I don't think a writer like Moore approaches things so superficially. I think he's asked himself questions like "What would normal people playing at being superheroes in the real world look like?" and try to answer them by writing characters and a world. He's said in interviews that he originally wanted to write a comic on existing superheroes (originally "the might crusaders"), and then surprise the reader by finding out what their mundane life under the mask is like. In the end he was persuaded to write new characters instead. He also said it started with just doing a murder mystery story. Also, worst supername ever. "Bob Phantom".

I'm also reminded that Moore said that during the writing he realized halfway through that it would be completely out of character for Rorsarch to go along with the deception and that for the plan to go through, Rorsach would have to die.

I think rather than simple conclusions like "the end justifies the means" or "the end doesn't justify the means", the lessons we can draw from Veidt's journey, is something like "If you follow the path of the end justifies the means, the cost at your soul may be incredible to the point where your loved ones see you as the monster you're trying to guard them from (parallel to black freighter)".

And yes, the idea of end justifying the means, would mean that any dystopia can be justified as long as one justifies the end goal (the right motivations, as you say).

----

As for Rorsach or Rorsach-inspired people being racist; it makes sense in the modern liberal mind: He's right wing, therefor, they're racist and secret nazis.

I have one friend that really really liked Rorsach, and this guy in general has a very very strong sense of justice, which is also true for Rorsach. Of course Rorsach is also incredibly mentally ill. So he'll follow his strong sense of justice even if it means an end to world peace. Why would he be seen as either just a good guy or bad guy? Why would Inception end with the spinning top falling down? It's just more compelling when you're not given the answer and it's ambiguous, isn't it?

in summary FUCK WATCHMEN HBO you were doing so well up until now

Black hooded justice, eh? So there is a black character, walking around with a noose around his neck, who is also gay? Are we sure this guy is supposed to be called Hooded Justice? Shouldn't it be Hooded Jussie Smollet?

In any case, it's Rolf Muller.

 

[Hatoful Dandy]

I don't think a writer like Moore approaches things so superficially. I think he's asked himself questions like "What would normal people playing at being superheroes in the real world look like?" and try to answer them by writing characters and a world. He's said in interviews that he originally wanted to write a comic on existing superheroes (originally "the might crusaders"), and then surprise the reader by finding out what their mundane life under the mask is like. In the end he was persuaded to write new characters instead. He also said it started with just doing a murder mystery story. Also, worst supername ever. "Bob Phantom".

Ver archivo adjunto 1033443

I'm also reminded that Moore said that during the writing he realized halfway through that it would be completely out of character for Rorsarch to go along with the deception and that for the plan to go through, Rorsach would have to die.

I think rather than simple conclusions like "the end justifies the means" or "the end doesn't justify the means", the lessons we can draw from Veidt's journey, is something like "If you follow the path of the end justifies the means, the cost at your soul may be incredible to the point where your loved ones see you as the monster you're trying to guard them from (parallel to black freighter)".

And yes, the idea of end justifying the means, would mean that any dystopia can be justified as long as one justifies the end goal (the right motivations, as you say).

----

As for Rorsach or Rorsach-inspired people being racist; it makes sense in the modern liberal mind: He's right wing, therefor, they're racist and secret nazis.

I have one friend that really really liked Rorsach, and this guy in general has a very very strong sense of justice, which is also true for Rorsach. Of course Rorsach is also incredibly mentally ill. So he'll follow his strong sense of justice even if it means an end to world peace. Why would he be seen as either just a good guy or bad guy? Why would Inception end with the spinning top falling down? It's just more compelling when you're not given the answer and it's ambiguous, isn't it?



Black hooded justice, eh? So there is a black character, walking around with a noose around his neck, who is also gay? Are we sure this guy is supposed to be called Hooded Justice? Shouldn't it be Hooded Jussie Smollet?

In any case, it's Rolf Muller.

Ver archivo adjunto 1033489

You know, if I didn't know any better, I'd say Smollet was tipped off ahead of time that this whole Hooded Justice thing was going to be in the show so he'd do it and then there'd be a real life parallel to beat people over the head with and shame them into liking it.

...too bad he botched it entirely and now the show looks worse as a result.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Moore gets butthurt about people using and adapting Watchmen but most of the characters in Watchmen were based on existing Charlton Comics characters he wanted to have his way with. Nite Owl = Blue Beetle. Manhattan = Captain Atom. Rorschach = Question. The League was just a blatant collection of other peoples characters. He's a hypocritical old codger. His addled commie brain probably hates copyright and private ownership but gets upset when other people use his creations. Funny how that works. And most of his successes were on the backs of the creations of others.

I think if there were really good adaptations of his work, that I would agree. The watchmen movie which is the best of any Moore's work adaptations, still falls short by making the watchmen too superhuman in fight and a conclusion that doesn't really make sense (the world uniting against dr. manhattan). In general it's a pretty good adaptation but only insofar as it copies the work (and, okay, the intro is unforgettable).

All other adaptations of his work are at best shadows. That's not to say all his work is good either, but he has made some revolutionary things and I think the little old codger is right in having a distaste in regards to adaptations of his work, considering the quality of those.