Halo MCC/Infinite/general Griefing thread - Six months, two maps, no refunds

What did you think of Infinite after the campaign showcase?

  • It looked good

  • Good, but they need to iron out some issues

  • Majorly apprehensive

  • It sucked donkey dick

  • I need to see more

  • I don't know

  • Craig monke

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King Dead dijo:
Back when Halo was at its peak popularity, various games were accused of being Halo clones; off the top of my head, the Killzone and Resistance series both had that label applied to them. I can't say whether that was applicable or not since I haven't played either, but there was definitely a trend for several years of different companies putting out sci-fi shooters in a similar vein, copying various Halo mechanics like regenerating health and limited weapons (much to the chagrin of Quake/UT fans). I don't think any really got close to the same feel, however.

Destiny is probably the game series that gets closest to Halo's feel, which isn't all that surprising considering both were developed by the same studio. Still, there's enough setting it apart that you don't really get the Halo experience while playing. The gunplay is very similar, but between all the space magic abilities, the various double jumps, exotic weaponry, and the practically nonexistent vehicle sandbox, it really ends up being its own beast.
As a fan of both series, I've also been thinking recently about why Destiny's PVP feels so much less satisfying than Halo's, which became all the clearer when I picked up the MCC last year. Halo's strength is that it has a fairly simple sandbox that supports an endless variety of different game rules. In most cases, all players have the same movement and health, all guns deal the same damage, and all vehicles operate the same way. Not only does this mean that a firefight between two players with the same guns will mostly come down to skill (though there's certainly some luck involved), it also means that you can create all manner of gametypes on top of this sandbox, from pure deathmatch to objective-based to more off-the-wall types like Grifball or Rocket Race, supported in no small part by its robust custom game options. Add in Forge, and the possibilities are endless.

Destiny, meanwhile, has a comparatively complex sandbox. Each of the three classes has its own special ability and movement options, and each subclass (now four for each class) has a variety of grenade, melee, and super abilities to choose from. Every player can hold three different weapons (kinetic/energy/heavy), with dozens of options for each slot across a variety of weapon archetypes. Most weapons also have random rolls, so two copies of the same gun can potentially behave quite differently. Armor has a variety of stat points that affect health, regeneration, movement speed, and ability cooldowns. Then you have exotic weapons and armor; one of each can be equipped at any time, and they generally have effects that can drastically change up a player's build. Add all of this together, and it is virtually impossible for two players to be identical to each other.

In Destiny, Bungie has been unable to really support PVP beyond a bunch of different flavors of deathmatch. They've tried to include more objective-based gametypes before, but with the recent expansion, all of these have been purged. The only one left that's even slightly objective-based is Control, but controlling zones merely supports your ability to get more points per kill; though difficult it's theoretically possible to win a match without capturing a single point. I believe this is primarily due to the nature of Destiny's sandbox. Because there's so much variance between different players' loadouts, it's practically impossible to balance an objective-based gametype around practically infinite possibilities. It's also why you don't see many custom game options in Destiny, where you can generally only modify things like time limit and score limit. Tweaking things like gravity and movement speed could end up seriously amplified by any number of gear options, resulting in something that's either not fun to play or not fun to play against. They also gave up on including vehicles in PVP early into D1's lifespan, since it turned out that vehicles were practically useless against any player with a rocket launcher or a super ready to go (so, almost all the time).

And that's without getting into how Destiny PVP feels, especially nowadays with the new Stasis subclasses. Being frozen constantly is pretty much the definition of unfun, but that's what you're gonna run into pretty much every match. Add in various cheaters that Bungie still can't fully get rid of due to their insistence on keeping the peer-to-peer networking model, and it's just not a good experience. Meanwhile, I can load up the MCC, play a massive variety of gametypes across six different multiplayer modes, and have fun most every game, changing things up when I'm in the mood for something new.

I get what Bungie was trying to do with Destiny's PVP; they wanted to create a game where your character would play the same no matter where you took them. I just think that it was a huge mistake in retrospect, especially since rebalancing weapons and abilities for PVP usually has negative repercussions in PVE as well. They probably would have been better served making a carbon copy of Halo's multiplayer instead.
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I play a ton of Destiny but I pretty much avoid its PVP components like the plague. It's never really been particularly well-balanced but it's gotten to the point now where it's just a clusterfuck of people running around with one-hit-kill abilities/weapons, Stasis which has even further fucked things up, etc. I think even Halo 5's PVP takes more actual skill and is better balanced, and I fucking despise Halo 5.

And I'll be honest, I've never really gotten the "it feels like Halo" thing in regards to Destiny. To me, it's always played more like "Call of Duty: Magic Warfare".

The Last Stand dijo:
Killzone was made to COMPETE with Halo.

One failed "Halo clone" I know of was Haze. Another PS exclusive.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=--anu_r_y6s
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I've played them all. Killzone was always very mediocre to me, and in my view was almost 100% carried by its visuals. Shadow Fall in particular was a brutal slog that I was begging to finally end. I think my favorite Killzone was actually the Vita one, but Sony shut the devs of that game down, because of course they did. Resistance I think I liked more but it still wasn't anything mindblowing. 2 was probably my favorite but I believe I'm in the minority on that. Haze was just fucking awful, I played it years ago for about 20 minutes and that's all I could take.

In more relevant news, it looks like Infinite is getting another update this week, although not as big as the last one.

 
The Doom Slayer dijo:
I play a ton of Destiny but I pretty much avoid its PVP components like the plague. It's never really been particularly well-balanced but it's gotten to the point now where it's just a clusterfuck of people running around with one-hit-kill abilities/weapons, Stasis which has even further fucked things up, etc. I think even Halo 5's PVP takes more actual skill and is better balanced, and I fucking despise Halo 5.

And I'll be honest, I've never really gotten the "it feels like Halo" thing in regards to Destiny. To me, it's always played more like "Call of Duty: Magic Warfare".


I've played them all. Killzone was always very mediocre to me, and in my view was almost 100% carried by its visuals. Shadow Fall in particular was a brutal slog that I was begging to finally end. I think my favorite Killzone was actually the Vita one, but Sony shut the devs of that game down, because of course they did. Resistance I think I liked more but it still wasn't anything mindblowing. 2 was probably my favorite but I believe I'm in the minority on that. Haze was just fucking awful, I played it years ago for about 20 minutes and that's all I could take.

In more relevant news, it looks like Infinite is getting another update this week, although not as big as the last one.

Presiona para expandir...
For me, the feel is mostly in the gunplay, which remains solid. I've played plenty of games where the weapons just didn't feel right, but Bungie consistently delivers on making guns that look, sound, and behave in a satisfying way. Beyond that and somewhat minor things like a radar system and regenerating health/shields, the two series are worlds apart.

At this point, the only Destiny PVP I bother with is Mayhem since it's less serious, and even that has turned out less fun with Stasis in play. I thought Blade Barrage with Shards of Galanor was bad until I got obliterated by the Hunter's gigantic Stasis one-hit-kill plus death cloud nightmare a dozen times in a row (only mild hyperbole). Don't even get me started on how awful Trials has become. But like I said, this shows the problem with trying to design a game with a single, complex sandbox for both PVE and PVP: you end up having to choose which one you'd rather devote your time to in the end. Destiny's always been a PVE game first, even if Crucible addicts don't want to admit that, so it makes sense that that's what they focus on primarily. But effectively wrecking a mode that was mostly okay (though needing attention for a while), just to sell people on the idea that they need the new expansion so they can destroy their opponents too, is a pretty shit move.

But I'll quit ranting about that here since this thread is about Bungie's previous series. Looking forward to the Infinite blog, even if it's shorter than the last one.
 
The Doom Slayer dijo:
I've played them all. Killzone was always very mediocre to me, and in my view was almost 100% carried by its visuals. Shadow Fall in particular was a brutal slog that I was begging to finally end. I think my favorite Killzone was actually the Vita one, but Sony shut the devs of that game down, because of course they did. Resistance I think I liked more but it still wasn't anything mindblowing. 2 was probably my favorite but I believe I'm in the minority on that. Haze was just fucking awful, I played it years ago for about 20 minutes and that's all I could take.

In more relevant news, it looks like Infinite is getting another update this week, although not as big as the last one.

Presiona para expandir...
Killzone 2 was ambitious but flawed, Killzone 3 fixed nearly all the flaws of the second game and I would probably call it the best in the series. If all the games were like Killzone 3 it would have been a Uncharted tier franchise, but in the end the series has too many clunky entries
 
Halo as a whole needs a shot in the arm to get better again. Especially since Halo 5 left the story in limbo, and they're not continuing that plot thread.

I suppose they can have the Flood from the Ark use the portal and invade other parts of the Halo galaxy, and you can have it so that Cortana foresaw the return of the Flood (maybe through the Domain she saw the Flood overtaking both Captain Cutter and Atriox's forces) and she's trying to unite the galaxy for one last battle with the Flood. That way, you can unite Chief and Cortana again for one last fight and then have Cortana sacrifice herself for good taking out the Flood forces or something.

That, and just get rid of ONI. Have the Flood eat them, have Atriox kill them, I don't care, nobody likes them.

Halo is at its best when it's about humanity vs. extinction. The Bungie Halo games and Halo Wars 1 did that pretty well, and Halo 4 had shades of it as well. Halo 5 strayed from that formula and nearly wrecked the franchise by making one of the good characters evil for no good reason. It would have worked better if, from the POV of Team Osiris, Cortana was a villain, but from Blue Team's perspective, she's an ally. That would have done some good driving a wedge between the two Spartan teams and making them into enemies. Team Osiris sees Cortana as a rogue AI, while Blue Team sees Cortana as an ally and a friend, which would cause more conflict between the two teams instead of them just realizing they were on the same side despite having fisticuffs with each other.
 
So the new update is out. What's everyone's thoughts? I think my favorite thing about it is that I'm not getting Halo 4 shit shoved in my face 100% of the time anymore in the main menu background (and I LIKE Halo 4... well, the campaign anyway).

The new content I'm split on. I like a lot of the new customization options, but at the same time some of the new H3 armors, mainly the helmets, are just absolutely disgusting and have no business being in the game. Even what we've seen of the Infinite armors are lightyears ahead of these designs, and they just feel like a relic from the H4/5 aesthetic days being awkwardly shoved in here to meet some arbitrary content quota. But fortunately there's the skin toggle option in the menu, so whatever.

Oh, and I already unlocked the Mister Chief helmet by doing the assassination from the infamous spot at the beginning of Pillar of Autumn. Was as much of a pain in the ass as it was back then but I eventually got it after a bunch of tries.
 
While I appreciate seeing new armor for 3, the new designs clash too much with the originals.

And maybe it's just me, but even the genuinely decent looking 4 armors like Warrior look very weird here.
 
Well I'm not super thrilled about the new unlocks being spread over 100 tiers again, but it's not like there's any FOMO for anything beyond seasonal challenges. Already got the Mister Chief helmet unlocked, as well as the new Mongoose skin. For reference, you don't have to be in a group for that challenge, and you can use Acrophobia and the infinite Spartan Laser glitch to make it even easier. Once you reach the Warthog, just keep going past it and bear to the left, and you'll find a Mongoose on the scaffolding. It honestly wasn't too difficult to drive it through the level, aside from the jump after the second tunnel; the Mongoose doesn't have enough speed to make it over the jump if you take the central path, so you have to go either left or right.

I probably won't use the Halo Online armors aside from maybe swapping out my Mark VI arms/legs for something new if any of them look appealing, but I don't mind 'em being in the game too much. I just want them to fix the arms on the updated techsuit so that it actually fits the mesh of the old armor, and doesn't have the weird bits sticking out. Hope that they show Halo 2 some love next season, Classic and/or Anniversary; so far it's the only game that hasn't had some new customization options added.
 
Yeah, I had to do the assassination twice to get it to pop. I vaguely remember it being glitchy in OG Reach as well.

New update's out. Nothing too revelatory, just talking about design decisions and a few weapon/concept arts. I find their reasoning for the new shotgun to be total horseshit, but... all I can do at this point is hope the OG one gets added after launch. I guess.

www.halowaypoint.com

Halo Infinite - Inside Infinite - January 2021

Welcome to our first Inside Infinite of 2021! In this month's update we're talking with the team about their vision, approach, and work on Halo Infinite's sandbox. We've also got a few "Tales from the Trenches" from across the development team and a story about a deadly dance from Creative...
www.halowaypoint.com www.halowaypoint.com
 
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lowering weapon redundancy is going to, hopefully, make tuning less of an absolute nightmare.
 
A returning vehicle? It's gonna be either the Falcon or the Chopper (or both), guaranteed.
 
The Last Stand dijo:
Killzone was made to COMPETE with Halo.

One failed "Halo clone" I know of was Haze. Another PS exclusive.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=--anu_r_y6s
Presiona para expandir...
I bought Haze at launch and it was so utterly shit that the staff at the store I got it from let me return it for the full amount I bought it for despite being opened because they felt sorry for me. That's an accomplishment in shittiness. Killzone 2 was great for atmosphere and animations, but holy fuck the entire game felt like it had a good 3 seconds of input lag on every action.
 
Thanks to the Halo Completionists Discord, here are some tips for season 5 challenges, as well as a possible fix if you're still having trouble getting that assassination to work:
  • Because You Begged: Already mentioned that it's a bit of a buggy challenge to pull off (always has been), but some users have also discovered that clearing your saved game cache can help fix problems you might have with getting this one done. My guess is that the port of Reach includes the original achievement trigger which is what the challenge is looking for; if you've already done this by accident or just for fun, then the trigger won't activate a second time, making it impossible to unlock. Clearing your cache might resolve this issue. Here's a video guide on how to do that based on this Reddit post:
    Note that doing this will reset all your settings, customization options, campaign checkpoints, current playlist progress, and local files; on PC, you can back up your files first and replace them once you finish the challenge. Completing this one gets you the Mister Chief Mariner helmet in Halo: Reach.
  • Release the Geese!: Easier than Annual for a variety of reasons: you can do it solo, you can use any skulls (in this case, Acrophobia), and you can use the infinite Spartan Laser glitch to get through the initial section easier. Acrophobia in particular makes the level a breeze to get through; fly through the level to start spawning Flood, fly up to Johnson and get the infinite laser (kill him once, juggle the laser away from him, then kill him again; the laser he drops the second time will be infinite), and use that from a distance to obliterate the Flood. Once you're through the control room section, just fly past all the Sentinels and Flood and get to the Warthog run. Follow the cliff wall to your left and you'll find a Mongoose on the scaffolding; hop on and drive to the end of the level like normal. Honestly I didn't find it too hard, though you might not make some jumps like you're used to. Your reward is the Hazard Pay Mongoose skin in Halo 3.
  • Combo Maker: Meta-challenge that requires you to complete two others: Guilty Shot (get 343 headshot kills with the BR in matchmaking) and Who, What, Win (win 25 competitive matchmade games). The former is fastest in Halo 2/H2A SWAT, and I think Halo 4 SWAT would work as well; Reach and Halo 1 don't have BRs, and Halo 3 might give you Recon SWAT (silenced pistols instead of BRs). I don't know if Halo 4 SWAT lets you choose your weapon or forces you into specific guns, but that should work as well. As for winning competitive games, find a playlist you like and stick with it, and if you have some skilled friends, ask them to help out. Really wish they tied it to just playing competitive instead of just winning, but at least you don't have to hit a specific rank this time. Complete both challenges to get Combo Maker and the Lucky Shot BR skin in Halo 3.
  • Strong in the Week: Another meta-challenge that requires you to complete 30 weekly challenges. Since there are a total of 26 available in any given week, it'll take a minimum of two weeks to finish this. You'll also unlock the Quickdraw nameplate, letting the absolute zenith of human endeavor and perfect encapsulation of human talent that is Mister Chief grace your nameplate as well.
  • Five Grand: 5000 kills in any gametype, with enemy players defeated in matchmaking counting for ten kills. Not too challenging to get while you're working on other stuff.
  • Off the Beaten Path: If you haven't been going around collecting skulls and lore collectibles, now's as good a time as any to knock 'em out. You'll need 30 to complete this challenge. If you just want to get this done fast or if you already have them all, you can cheese this by repeatedly opening and closing a Reach Data Pad; you don't have to restart the level, just keep opening and closing until the challenge pops. Two fast ones are at the beginning of Nightfall on any difficulty (hang to your right and you'll find it in a small tunnel) and Lone Wolf on Legendary difficulty (in the left side of the big pipe opposite of where you spawn in).
  • Degrees of Difficulty: This one requires you to earn 50 points by completing campaign or Spartan Ops missions, with more points earned for completing missions on a higher difficulty (1 for Easy, 2 for Normal, 3 for Heroic, and 4 for Legendary). A fast way to earn points is to do the Street Smart playlist for Halo 3: ODST. It's a Legendary playlist that simply requires you to book it to each of the clue locations. You'll get 28 points in total once you finish the playlist, so two completions is enough to finish the challenge. EDIT: Any 0x scoring skulls (Bandanna, Scarab, Envy, Bonded Pair, Acrophobia) will make your level completion not count for the challenge.
  • Choose Your Own Adventure: Just finish up any cross-game campaign playlist to get this one done. Most are four missions long, but Get in the Ring is only three missions and fairly quick overall. Kill the Marines in Halo (1) to speed up those sections so you don't have to wait for evac, Delta Halo is an easy level to speedrun, and Halo (3) isn't terribly challenging overall. Guilty Pleasure is also three missions long, but they're all pretty long (The Ark, Two Betrayals, and The Covenant), so I don't recommend it. Me and My Hog is another pretty fast one.
  • Firefight Hero: Complete 20 matchmade Firefight games. I'd suggest either Reach Firefight Arcade or Reach Firefight Doubles for this. ODST Firefight is slower-paced, and even the Arcade modes will generally take you the full 20 minutes. Depending on which gametype you get, Reach Firefight Arcade generally takes 10-15 minutes. Reach Firefight Doubles is a single-round playlist so it'll go even faster, but the weekly Firefight challenge always requires full-set games, so you may want to just work on this over the next few weeks if you need a lot of season points.
  • Five-Oh-Em-Gee: Complete 50 matchmade multiplayer games. Not much to say here; if you're working on Combo Maker, you'll probably be doing quite a few matches while working on your wins. Otherwise, stick with faster playlists like Action Sack or Slayer gametypes.
Honestly, I hope they go back to 50-tier seasons, especially if they're going to be released at a generally faster pace. While it's a good thing that there's little FOMO, requiring 100 points per season is a considerable grind, even if you do all seasonal challenges and get your ten points from weeklies every week. Yeah, you get points from your first hundred rankups too, but I'm far past that point now. We're already up to 411 points required to unlock everything from seasons 1-5, and there's only 34 points from seasonal challenges this time around. We already know they plan to go for at least five more seasons, so if they end up adding 100 more tiers per season, that's gonna add up to quite a lot of work very quickly, and latecomers are going to find it almost impossible to unlock everything, or even make a sufficient dent. Doubling the points earned per weekly challenge would be a good start, or maybe repeatable challenges that give you a point every time you complete them.
 
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