🎭 Dramacow Gamergate / Depression Quest Shitstorm

[That Chris Guy]

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Riiiiiiiight, because we can't ascertain whether somebody is lying or not regardless of their gender, Anita?

Exactly how much muck does she have to drag people through before people realise she's full of shit?

 

[Super Collie]

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Anita has gone full Orwellian guys.

So let's say that I'm speaking to a female friend of mine and she confides in me that she's been the victim of domestic abuse and is looking for a safe haven and a way out. I can believe that.

Now then, let's say that I have another female friend who is attempting to convince me that she is receiving death threats online from sockpuppet Twitter accounts while collecting free Kickstarter Dollars for a shitty web series whose popularity is fueled entirely by the host and her cronies' duties as professional victims to keep stirring up controversy in a futile attempt to stay relevant in an industry where people come and go in the blink of an eye.

Nope, not sold on that one.

 

[NegaCWC]

The thing is that we're unclear as to what she is actually capable of when it comes to creating games. If Depression Quest was her top-tier stuff then she's pretty fucked if she didn't have connections but she does so don't be shocked if she ends up at a place like Double Fine until they realize she offers jackshit.

So I'v done some googling and found Zoey's linkedin (screenshot is attached to this post in case it's get taken down). From my understanding of it, DQ is probably the best she can come up with. Since I don't know shit about game design and programming it's hard for me to deduce just how much technical competence is needed to reach the achievements she lists on her resume. With that being said, her career related education makes me doubt her skills:

Education:
Difference Engine
Independent Games
2011 – 2011

6-week training course run by Mare Sheppard and Jim Munroe that taught 6 women how to make indie games.

There's no way someone who had so little design/programming related education is going to get a job making games for a serious company, right? If I'm getting my shit wrong due to not being very technologically knowledgeable than somebody please expalin to me what is it that I'm not understanding. Otherwise this seems to be the SJW equivalent of wingnut welfare I earlier suspected to be in play. "So what if Quinn doesn't know shit about making games, she's a good sister who tows the party line so everything she sharts is gold."

 

[niggers]

giant red letters on a black background telling me to believe unquestioningly

jesus i really thought the government would be telling me this shit

 

[Xander]

So I'v done some googling and found Zoey's linkedin (screenshot is attached to this post in case it's get taken down). From my understanding of it, DQ is probably the best she can come up with. Since I don't know shit about game design and programming it's hard for me to deduce just how much technical competence is needed to reach the achievements she lists on her resume. With that being said, her career related education makes me doubt her skills:



There's no way someone who had so little design/programming related education is going to get a job making games for a serious company, right? If I'm getting my shit wrong due to not being very technologically knowledgeable than somebody please expalin to me what is it that I'm not understanding. Otherwise this seems to be the SJW equivalent of wingnut welfare I earlier suspected to be in play. "So what if Quinn doesn't know shit about making games, she's a good sister who tows the party line so everything she sharts is gold."

Programmer who knows a bit of game dev chiming in: simple answer is she could get hired.

Is she a good game dev with lots of experience who could code a game engine or some parts of it? No, I doubt she could code something relatively simple like a particle engine for a 2D game or a good tile engine. Her first game was made with Unity and it required some programming (she lists C#, Unity has a bunch of languages to choose from) but you can get a lot done just by writing simple scripts (if player hits left, move the character 10 pixels to the left etc) while DQ was made with an interactive fiction engine that Auntie Pixelantie recommended as the perfect tool for people who don't know anything about programming. The first version of DQ was made with Flash and again, that really doesn't require any coding chops. So no, she probably can't code anything besides a crappy match 3 game.

That being said notice how most of her projects have her in a "design", "tester", "writer", "mentor" or "art" position. With this yes, she could get hired. Could she pull an Anita (who's hired by a big triple A company, EA, as a consultant on Mirror's Edge 2)? I'd say no but she could find her way to a smaller company who does smaller games.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

Programmer who knows a bit of game dev chiming in: simple answer is she could get hired.

Is she a good game dev with lots of experience who could code a game engine or some parts of it? No, I doubt she could code something relatively simple like a particle engine for a 2D game or a good tile engine. Her first game was made with Unity and it required some programming (she lists C#, Unity has a bunch of languages to choose from) but you can get a lot done just by writing simple scripts (if player hits left, move the character 10 pixels to the left etc) while DQ was made with an interactive fiction engine that Auntie Pixelantie recommended as the perfect tool for people who don't know anything about programming. The first version of DQ was made with Flash and again, that really doesn't require any coding chops. So no, she probably can't code anything besides a crappy match 3 game.

That being said notice how most of her projects have her in a "design", "tester", "writer", "mentor" or "art" position. With this yes, she could get hired. Could she pull an Anita (who's hired by a big triple A company, EA, as a consultant on Mirror's Edge 2)? I'd say no but she could find her way to a smaller company who does smaller games.

 

[DN 420]

Programmer who knows a bit of game dev chiming in: simple answer is she could get hired.

Is she a good game dev with lots of experience who could code a game engine or some parts of it? No, I doubt she could code something relatively simple like a particle engine for a 2D game or a good tile engine. Her first game was made with Unity and it required some programming (she lists C#, Unity has a bunch of languages to choose from) but you can get a lot done just by writing simple scripts (if player hits left, move the character 10 pixels to the left etc) while DQ was made with an interactive fiction engine that Auntie Pixelantie recommended as the perfect tool for people who don't know anything about programming. The first version of DQ was made with Flash and again, that really doesn't require any coding chops. So no, she probably can't code anything besides a crappy match 3 game.

That being said notice how most of her projects have her in a "design", "tester", "writer", "mentor" or "art" position. With this yes, she could get hired. Could she pull an Anita (who's hired by a big triple A company, EA, as a consultant on Mirror's Edge 2)? I'd say no but she could find her way to a smaller company who does smaller games.

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain she's said she made DQ with Twine which requires pretty much zero coding skill excluding CSS customization. If she ever did get hired, I don't really see how she could stay hired with the skills she has. It baffles me that someone who preaches for the forward of women in computer science can't spend a year actually getting to know shit instead of this pr social media bullshit.

 

[Xander]

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain she's said she made DQ with Twine which requires pretty much zero coding skill excluding CSS customization. If she ever did get hired, I don't really see how she could stay hired with the skills she has. It baffles me that someone who preaches for the forward of women in computer science can't spend a year actually getting to know shit instead of this pr social media bullshit.

Yes, it was made with Twine.

I'm not saying she would get hired as a programmer but rather as a designer / writer / consultant / privilege checker / pr.

 

[RP 520]

pr.

A company would be committing relations suicide by hiring her as a PR.

 

[Owlflaps]

Yes, it was made with Twine.

I'm not saying she would get hired as a programmer but rather as a designer / writer / consultant / privilege checker / pr.

Since we're discussing the chance of her being hired by a game company, I'd like to throw in my two cents. I don't think Zoe has a chance in an actual game industry.

In my experience, it's really hard to be hired as an just an artist. There's far too many weens/tryhards/morons that attempt to break out into the industry to make a name for themselves. The problem is that their skills are laughable. Companies with some renown don't usually hire any artists unless they have a high quality portfolio and a willingness to bend over backwards when your vision doesn't coincide with theirs. It's hours upon hours of work, and game developers will only choose maybe one piece of work to make into a model, texture, etc. It's waaaaaay better to be well rounded. If you know both programming and art, companies will have a higher interest in keeping you. The industry has so little programmers that they'll take anyone who has an intermediate knowledge of Java, C++, C#, as well the ability to work the interface of UDK/Unity.

I'm calling Zoe out on learning computer science or art. On both her LinkedIn and her official website, there's no actual portfolio present that displays any of her work. Sure, you can click on the games that she worked on, but she doesn't exactly specify what the hell she did for each project. To me, this is incredibly telling that's she's lazy. Game Jam is also kind of stupid. If anyone knows about it, it's basically a game designing event held at an international level and encourages people to make games in a 48 hour grind. While its a grand idea and can give you some design credentials, your game has to look amazing. All Quinn has designed is experimental, boring dreck.

Anyways, hope this was informative or whatever. I'm gonna party!

 

[Batman VS Tony Danza]

im gonna go with no side here and bring up the point that in this whole drama if you take a side you're either defending someone who really has absolutely no sympathy and next to no if not outright no redeeming qualities or defending a group of people who don't seem to have an issue with (other people) doxxing and probably defaming that unsympathetic, largely irredeemable person (because apparently it's okay to post someone's personal information everywhere if they're unsympathetic and perceived as bad by the internet!)

that's just me though

(although i do honestly have to admit quinn isnt doing herself any favors by acting like a complete fucking moron and fanning all those flames even more than ever through her recent actions)

You're aware Zoe doxxed someone at The Fine Young Capitalists, a non-profit organization holding a project to get women into gaming, right? This was before all of the current drama. Also she claimed to everyone, her friends and followers, that they were "transphobic" which caused such a stink that a backer pulled out resulting in the person she doxxed putting up 10k of his own money to keep the project going. Just an FYI, The Fine Young Capitalists only require that you have something, somewhere floating on the internet or irl that shows you identified yourself as female at ANYTIME prior to be eligible. I could change my gender on facebook to "female" for shits and giggles a week before contacting them and they would still accept me. Doesn't sound very transphobic. Again, this was before all the drama with Five Guys.

It's okay to be in the middle of the road on this situation. Just realize that it took a barely unified movement of thousands to match the shit Zoe did. Of course only one of them gets good press out of this. That alone is good enough to say "Fuck it" and walk away from this shaking your head. I'm only bringing this up because it seems you're blaming one side a bit more for the same things the other has done. Credit where credit is due, right?

 

[Jaimas]

You're aware Zoe doxxed someone at The Fine Young Capitalists, a non-profit organization holding a project to get women into gaming, right? This was before all of the current drama. Also she claimed to everyone, her friends and followers, that they were "transphobic" which caused such a stink that a backer pulled out resulting in the person she doxxed putting up 10k of his own money to keep the project going. Just an FYI, The Fine Young Capitalists only require that you have something, somewhere floating on the internet or irl that shows you identified yourself as female at ANYTIME prior to be eligible. I could change my gender on facebook to "female" for shits and giggles a week before contacting them and they would still accept me. Doesn't sound very transphobic. Again, this was before all the drama with Five Guys.

It's okay to be in the middle of the road on this situation. Just realize that it took a barely unified movement of thousands to match the shit Zoe did. Of course only one of them gets good press out of this. That alone is good enough to say "Fuck it" and walk away from this shaking your head. I'm only bringing this up because it seems you're blaming one side a bit more for the same things the other has done. Credit where credit is due, right?

Let's not forget that she also "Accidentally" DDoS'd them, and admitted to it pretty openly.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

If she has any artistic talent, it's odd that she would blow her drama wad on a game that showcases none of that. The only 'artistic' thing about DQ are the grainy photographs at the top of each page that look like they were taken by a high school photography student.

 

[Jaimas]

If she has any artistic talent, it's odd that she would blow her drama wad on a game that showcases none of that. The only 'artistic' thing about DQ are the grainy photographs at the top of each page that look like they were taken by a high school photography student.

I was going to bring this up like 8 pages ago, but decided against it for being mean-spirited. But I may as well bring it up now: Depression Quest feels like the Strong Sad side of the Independent/Indie divide from Strong Bad Email #203. In the aftermath of the IGF/Indiecade scandals, this cartoon comes off as more tragic than funny.

 

[Pikimon]

Let's not forget that she also "Accidentally" DDoS'd them, and admitted to it pretty openly.

Isnt that illegal.

 

[appaloosa horse]

You're aware Zoe doxxed someone at The Fine Young Capitalists, a non-profit organization holding a project to get women into gaming, right? This was before all of the current drama. Also she claimed to everyone, her friends and followers, that they were "transphobic" which caused such a stink that a backer pulled out resulting in the person she doxxed putting up 10k of his own money to keep the project going. Just an FYI, The Fine Young Capitalists only require that you have something, somewhere floating on the internet or irl that shows you identified yourself as female at ANYTIME prior to be eligible. I could change my gender on facebook to "female" for shits and giggles a week before contacting them and they would still accept me. Doesn't sound very transphobic. Again, this was before all the drama with Five Guys.

It's okay to be in the middle of the road on this situation. Just realize that it took a barely unified movement of thousands to match the shit Zoe did. Of course only one of them gets good press out of this. That alone is good enough to say "Fuck it" and walk away from this shaking your head. I'm only bringing this up because it seems you're blaming one side a bit more for the same things the other has done. Credit where credit is due, right?

i dont keep up to date on this shit because it's a huge clusterfuck that's impossible to fully comprehend but i'm pretty sure quinn doxxing someone before this shit broke out is pretty irrelevant and has little bearings on what is going on now

in any case it doesnt matter because regardless of what happened everyone involved is still in the wrong

"I'm only bringing this up because it seems you're blaming one side a bit more for the same things the other has done"
because one side probably does deserve more blame than the other -- quinn doxxed someone and yeah sure that's terrible and all but i'd just like to point out that there's a bunch of 4chan's worst doxxing anyone even related to quinn right now which is invariably worse

at least i think it is anyways

 

[Johnny Bravo]

i dont keep up to date on this shit because it's a huge clusterfuck that's impossible to fully comprehend but i'm pretty sure quinn doxxing someone before this shit broke out is pretty irrelevant and has little bearings on what is going on now

in any case it doesnt matter because regardless of what happened everyone involved is still in the wrong

"I'm only bringing this up because it seems you're blaming one side a bit more for the same things the other has done"
because one side probably does deserve more blame than the other -- quinn doxxed someone and yeah sure that's terrible and all but i'd just like to point out that there's a bunch of 4chan's worst doxxing anyone even related to quinn right now which is invariably worse

at least i think it is anyways

 

[Jaimas]

Isnt that illegal.

Regarding DDoS attacks, there are a few laws on the books here in the US. The problem is that DDoSes often happen from outside the country and thus are not subject to US law. By all accounts, the following is illegal:

Knowingly causing the transmission of a program, information, code, or command that causes damage or intentionally accessing a computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, causes damage that results in:
* Loss to one or more persons during any one-year period aggregating at least $5,000 in value.
* The modification or impairment, or potential modification or impairment, of the medical examination, diagnosis, treatment, or care of one or more individuals.
* Physical injury to any person.
* A threat to public health or safety.
* Damage affecting a government computer system

Zoe Quinn's DDoS violates one of these very implicitly, since her doing so to offline TFYC cost the founder quite a pretty penny. She's already admitted fault to it, and if the head of TFYC decided to press charges, a criminal proceeding could go down regarding Zoe Quinn and Maya Kramer's DDoS of The Fine Young Capitalists. The money loss clause usually centers around downtime, lost sales, and so on. In this case it also forced the project lead to spend $10,000 on just keeping TFYC afloat, and may very well qualify.

Of course, going after Quinn with a criminal investigation, even a very obviously legitimate one, on this matter, might very well cause even more trouble to TFYC - and you know exactly why. We'd get more like this insufferable excuse for a human being screaming bloody murder about how it's all part of a grand conspiracy by the patriarchy to take down Saint Zoe of Quinn, and they'd cheerfully DDoS TFYC again just to prove their point.

 

[appaloosa horse]

i'd argue that it's pretty hard not to be "superior" when the people involved in a shitstorm are person who doesn't even try to make herself appear likable, 4chan and a lot of angry gamers especially when all of those people have seemingly attempted nothing resembling any sort of decency but i digress

 

[Pikonic]

i'd argue that it's pretty hard not to be "superior" when the people involved in a shitstorm are person who doesn't even try to make herself appear likable, 4chan and a lot of angry gamers especially when all of those people have seemingly attempted nothing resembling any sort of decency but i digress

4chan is full of assholes being assholes for the sake of being assholes. They're not the problem.
As I said earlier, the problem is Zoe crying sexism over something she did and should take responsibility for. She's the reason feminists in gaming like myself aren't being taken seriously