🎭 Dramacow Gamergate / Depression Quest Shitstorm

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At least people are starting to make asses out of themselves. Well, continuing to, and getting called on it.
k thor jensen, brave internet warrior.jpg
 
Late o the party, but hooooo shit. I've been following this shit, and it's fucking hilarious.

First, let me get this out of the way. I don't care for depression quest. I'm cool with the concept, but the delivery looks really lazy. From what I've seen it looks like a sort of "Try to X. Do you know that depressed people have a hard time doing X?" me, I think something with a Dear Esther or Dream feel to it would have been better.

Now, to the main point.

The Wizards are being fucking hilarious. All the depictions I've seen on their side is "Oh deesee pooooow social outcasts being bullied by da big bad SJWs."

Yeah. Poor social outcasts who go completely freaking apeshit on their mods for trying to B& loli and getting laid.

namazuros dijo:
KThorbeinganasshat on Twitter (Excuse my Mysoginy).Ver archivo adjunto 5650
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I can't help if he knows, when he uses the term "Uppity" that it sort of has a history of racism.

BUT HEY, DATS ONLY RACISM AGAINST CISSCUM AMIRITE?!?!?!?!?

mst3kluv dijo:
Honestly, I know I'm going to sound stupid, but Anita, although, her videos add nothing new to the feminist world, does not deserve to be death-threated. I've watched most of her videos and even though I disagree with some of her viewpoints, does not warrant rape threats. (I know about the money issues, but I think I've seen worst wastes of money. Dashcon, Brony-island)

I've played Depression Quest and as someone who suffers from depression, it was OKAY. I do think that Ms. Quinn should step away from the spotlight for a while and her ex-boyfriend sounds like a Lolcow himself.

NOBODY, NO MATTER WHAT SIDE THEY'RE ON, NEED TO BE HARASSED. This whole Twitter thing just brings out the worst citizens of Internet. (:_(
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Imma be honest... My only problem with Depression quest is that it seems underwhelming to me. I mean, I feel like it had the potential to be one of those really artistic games. But that's a small gripe. However, I actually had a very interesting argument with an Anti. Their jist was "Does it belong on Steam"

My rebuttal - Have you seen some of the shit on Steam? I've seen games advertised as "THE BEST GAME EVER. NO NOOBS ALLOWED!" and "DON'T LET YOUR GIRLFRIEND CATCH YOU PLAYING THIS HAWT NEW GAME" and "THIS GAME IS HYPER-ADDICTIVE" on the side-bar of crappy streaming websites on Steam. No matter what The Master Race wants to pretend, it isn't GabeN's Golden Fortress. It takes all sorts.

So long story short, I don't care that much about DQ.

As for Anita.... My problem with her is that she tackles a brand of gaming that I sort of despise. Let's call it Franchise Gaming. The Legend of Zeldas. The Marios. The plot driven, marketable main character having, A to B games.

I've never cared for them.

You know where you don't need to worry about Protagonists? D&D Rooted RPGs with character creators. To me, making games that are closer and closer to D&D is the only real solution unless your plan is to make a number franchises for every group to identify with. Because in D&D, if I want to play as a Bear who pretends to be a human with a combination of disguise and bluff, I can fucking well do so.

I remember reading a very intelligent article about the debate involving a past discussion between two people, and one spoke of the importance of identifying with the character, so the Anita-esque person says that it amounts to (Insert group here) needs more characters like them for identifiability.

To me, that's fine. I get that. I get that not everyone shares my views on this, but to me, the solution isn't "Make more Type X games." it's make more games that let you define the character on deeper and deeper levels. Are you in a wheelchair? Well a game that would let you define that'd be dandy. (Guild Wars 2 apparently made an NPC with a sort of bone illness, I think, who was carried around by a Golem. LET ME DEFINE THAT AS MY CHARACTER, GUYS.) You want to have a Transcharacter? Make games where that's a part of the character creation!

To me, the solution to this issue of representation in games is to make games have deeper and more elaborate character creators, not to make 101 Representational Franchises.

But I guess the sort of Franchise Games are what more people like, so I dunno. I guess people want that marketability/franchise feel. You can't decorate your blog with fanart of that one time I played as a promiscuous woodelf.
 
Daario Naharis dijo:
I remember reading a very intelligent article about the debate involving a past discussion between two people, and one spoke of the importance of identifying with the character, so the Anita-esque person says that it amounts to (Insert group here) needs more characters like them for identifiability.

To me, that's fine. I get that. I get that not everyone shares my views on this, but to me, the solution isn't "Make more Type X games." it's make more games that let you define the character.

But I guess the sort of Franchise Games are what more people like, so I dunno. I guess people want that marketability/franchise feel. You can't decorate your blog with fanart of that one time I played as a promiscuous woodelf.
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That's a good point. I think a lot of people enjoy franchise games because they tend to play a bit more like novels (with characters you meet across multiple games, and all that). Sometimes you can reconfigure the protagonist a bit, though never as much as you could in like Fallout or Elder Scrolls.

Different types of characters would be great, so I'm with Anita on that. But what developers and writers need to remember is that the character has to be interesting and well-written. It's like what Oscar Wilde said about books.
 
mardonik dijo:
Different types of characters would be great, so I'm with Anita on that. But what developers and writers need to remember is that the character has to be interesting and well-written. It's like what Oscar Wilde said about books.
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The thing is some types of video games are gender/sexuality-exclusive by their very nature. I think having other characters is fine, but it's not like games in general can be fixed by adding a broader spectrum of characters. Max Payne would not be the same game if Max was a post-op transsexual and was hunting down a dragonkin shut-in whose fursuit-wearing thugs slaughtered his family. Changing any part of the "cop gets his family killed and seeks revenge" formula in a major sense would fuck it up.

Nintendo has the right idea with being remorseful over not having gay marriage in Tamodachi Life and saying "you know what, we'll get it next time thanks for the feedback". They also have Birdo, whom I believe is literally the first transsexual character in video game history; they might need to work on how they explain this orientation to kids ("he thinks he is a girl" from the Mario 2 manual, etc) but in my opinion they're kind of the gold standard for social progression and acceptance in the gaming community.
 
CuriousBystander dijo:
I am kinda surprised people aren't using this incident to talk more about the failure of Steam Greenlight. It's clear that DQ does not belong on Steam, yet it got put through. This has happened with a lot of games but DQ seems to be the most clear example.
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I think most people have already known Steam Greenlight hasn't been working well, and I don't know if they have flat out said it but I think Valve have implied that they are phasing out and washing their hands of it, so there isn't much to say.
 
PaxtonFettel dijo:
I think most people have already known Steam Greenlight hasn't been working well, and I don't know if they have flat out said it but I think Valve have implied that they are phasing out and washing their hands of it, so there isn't much to say.
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Oh no, but where will I go for all of the "Minecraft, But, Like With ___________" games?
 
One last thing: I don't really understand why people are making fun of Anita for "fake" death threats. I mean, with all the shit that's going down right now, death threats are being slung around like greetings. To be honest, I only heard of Anita when the Internet started being a shitstormy mess over Tropes vs. Women. I'm not saying that Anita is blameless, but there are a lot worse feminist people out there.

Also, when did feminism become an excuse to attack and hate men? As a reasonable feminist-ish person, it makes me :heart-empty:
 
PaxtonFettel dijo:
Still Steam, because as I remember their replacement for Greenlight is to just not check shit at all and let everything on. I think that is how that shit Air Control game got on there, I am pretty sure it didn't go through Greenlight.
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Wait a minute, so the "fix" for the lack of Greenlight's quality control -- in keeping with the road sign motif here -- is a Yield sign without a cop ever monitoring it?

What could possibly go wrong? :D
 
See, this is why I got out of video game news reading because it got overridden with SJWs and kicking up shit when games don't come out that allow them to "express their sexuality" or what have you (that and other things, like linking "rape culture" with Super Mario Bros.).

In a way, they're very similar to Jack Thompson, only with opposite intentions.
 
Super Sexy Action Furry dijo:
The thing is some types of video games are gender/sexuality-exclusive by their very nature. I think having other characters is fine, but it's not like games in general can be fixed by adding a broader spectrum of characters. Max Payne would not be the same game if Max was a post-op transsexual and was hunting down a dragonkin shut-in whose fursuit-wearing thugs slaughtered his family. Changing any part of the "cop gets his family killed and seeks revenge" formula in a major sense would fuck it up.

Nintendo has the right idea with being remorseful over not having gay marriage in Tamodachi Life and saying "you know what, we'll get it next time thanks for the feedback". They also have Birdo, whom I believe is literally the first transsexual character in video game history; they might need to work on how they explain this orientation to kids ("he thinks he is a girl" from the Mario 2 manual, etc) but in my opinion they're kind of the gold standard for social progression and acceptance in the gaming community.
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Sure, and it wouldn't be doing anyone favors if games just switched their pandering to a different audience. I've never played Max Payne, but if it's trying to follow a formula than it needs to follow certain rules. Formulas are made to be broken too, so someone could design a noir game with an LGBT character and that'd be cool. As long as it's well done. Quality has to come first.

You can also spread yourself too thin though. Gaming culture is really misogynistic, but even if you open it up that doesn't mean you'll see that many different types of games being made. Doesn't mean it won't either, I'm just saying it could go either way. Something that's an exploration of a protagonist's gender identity probably won't sell as well as something where you shoot bad guys. A couple people have already pointed out that a lot of gamers don't really give a shit about this either way. They're just interested in a game that's fun for them.

I'm mixed-race (white and Asian, though I look really white so I'm probably CIS scum according to SJWs) IRL, and while I think it'd be cool to see some mixed-race characters, I can't get so bothered about it that I'm going to protest about it. I have a job, you know?
 
mardonik dijo:
Sure, and it wouldn't be doing anyone favors if games just switched their pandering to a different audience. I've never played Max Payne, but if it's trying to follow a formula than it needs to follow certain rules. Formulas are made to be broken too, so someone could design a noir game with an LGBT character and that'd be cool. As long as it's well done. Quality has to come first.

You can also spread yourself too thin though. Gaming culture is really misogynistic, but even if you open it up that doesn't mean you'll see that many different types of games being made. Doesn't mean it won't either, I'm just saying it could go either way. Something that's an exploration of a protagonist's gender identity probably won't sell as well as something where you shoot bad guys. A couple people have already pointed out that a lot of gamers don't really give a shit about this either way. They're just interested in a game that's fun for them.
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I think the idea of games is that it should be more inclusive and fun for everybody. This means doing away with ultra-sexualized female characters but doesn't mean adding a palette of people with every disability, race, and sexual combination possible.

One example is the fact that a lot of Christians do play video games (arguably, they are a marginalized group just as others), but there aren't very many games that cater to them, and things like Left Behind: Eternal Forces and the Wisdom Tree games just get universally laughed at. Part of the problem is that they're objectively bad games, but they also run into a huge problem of marginalizing everybody else.

This is part of the reason why franchise games like Mario and Zelda are so popular--they don't focus on gender and sexuality, they focus on being a good, approachable game that everybody can play. Metroid was also the same way--Super Metroid is heralded as one of the best SNES games ever and the Metroid Prime series being one of the best GameCube games, but Other M tried to experiment with Samus' angst over being a woman in a male-dominated field (and giving her voiced lines), and ended up being well, less well-liked than previous games, to put it in the kindest terms possible.
 
Xarpho dijo:
I think the idea of games is that it should be more inclusive and fun for everybody. This means doing away with ultra-sexualized female characters but doesn't mean adding a palette of people with every disability, race, and sexual combination possible.

One example is the fact that a lot of Christians do play video games (arguably, they are a marginalized group just as others), but there aren't very many games that cater to them, and things like Left Behind: Eternal Forces and the Wisdom Tree games just get universally laughed at. Part of the problem is that they're objectively bad games, but they also run into a huge problem of marginalizing everybody else.

This is part of the reason why franchise games like Mario and Zelda are so popular--they don't focus on gender and sexuality, they focus on being a good, approachable game that everybody can play. Metroid was also the same way--Super Metroid is heralded as one of the best SNES games ever and the Metroid Prime series being one of the best GameCube games, but Other M tried to experiment with Samus' angst over being a woman in a male-dominated field (and giving her voiced lines), and ended up being well, less well-liked than previous games, to put it in the kindest terms possible.
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Sure. One of the most popular games is Tetris, and that doesn't involve race or gender or anything. Just blocks. But I think that there's a place for more narrative games. I really like some of them. Then it depends on the story you're trying to tell.

Christian games are a good example of why social justice games probably won't do well. Both put the message before the medium.
 
mst3kluv dijo:
I'm going to do myself a favour and try to not get involved with this anymore. It's getting to be too embarrassing to be lulz-worthy. :c Guess what Fox news is gonna pick-up on.

"Vidya deemed responsible for hate crimes" :stupid:
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Fox News would only view that as a plus
 
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