Final Fantasy XIV - Kiwi Free Company

[FoolhardStar]

Wait, please tell me that this was nerfed or that there's another time you face off with him beyond that duty in Eulmore (or the one preceding it.) Because if not, that's hilarious.

Very Easy is a nerf in and of itself, but to my knowledge the final fight with him in Eulmore never got nerfed or altered across the board.

Sometimes nerfing doesn't even help, and people are still massive faggots about it. Look at how Thunder God Cid got a nerf and Orbonne Monastery's queue is still bonkers, or how Steps of Faith got nerfed years ago so you'd only need to fire one Dragonkiller and that still has people leaving and refusing to help new players. I saw it myself a few weeks ago, queued up as a tank in Trial roulette and four people stayed long enough to see the new player notification with two sprouts and dipped anyway.

 

[Kane Lives]

Very Easy is a nerf in and of itself, but to my knowledge the final fight with him in Eulmore never got nerfed or altered across the board.

Sometimes nerfing doesn't even help, and people are still massive faggots about it. Look at how Thunder God Cid got a nerf and Orbonne Monastery's queue is still bonkers, or how Steps of Faith got nerfed years ago so you'd only need to fire one Dragonkiller and that still has people leaving and refusing to help new players. I saw it myself a few weeks ago, queued up as a tank in Trial roulette and four people stayed long enough to see the new player notification with two sprouts and dipped anyway.

I loved Steps of Faith and I wished they did more like that.

It perfectly sells the illusion then that you're one of the many adventurers that were hired to help defend Ishgard and it was a team effort. I know we won't be getting more of these since we're now the Chosen One but I can dream.

Post ARR content were a mix of wild experimentation on part of the devs and it sort of saddens me that we settled into a rhythm of "boss trial" and "linear dungeons with 3 minibosses". (I can understand why they did it, mind. By far easiest to balance, and even the retards know the play by now.)

 

[Well Intentioned]

Very Easy is a nerf in and of itself, but to my knowledge the final fight with him in Eulmore never got nerfed or altered across the board.

Sometimes nerfing doesn't even help, and people are still massive faggots about it. Look at how Thunder God Cid got a nerf and Orbonne Monastery's queue is still bonkers, or how Steps of Faith got nerfed years ago so you'd only need to fire one Dragonkiller and that still has people leaving and refusing to help new players. I saw it myself a few weeks ago, queued up as a tank in Trial roulette and four people stayed long enough to see the new player notification with two sprouts and dipped anyway.

Yeah, it's crazy.

I hear so much whining and complaining from mentors about how Orbonne and the Ivalice raids in general are a nightmare and wahwahwah and I go in and do them and there's like zero problems. I think I died 2x through all 3 of them, one of them with Mustadio (I didn't realize that the snipe mechanic was a bit jank) and another cos another player hit me with a tether in I think the Ultimecia fight (or the one before it.)

The way they were talking about it, I was expecting this to be bamboo shoots under your fingernails levels of frustrating and it was...fine. I enjoyed them, they were fun.

Now I'm really curious how difficult Savage, Extreme, etc. actually are given how much these retards made a nothingburger out of Ivalice.

 

[Fcret]

The way they were talking about it, I was expecting this to be bamboo shoots under your fingernails levels of frustrating and it was...fine. I enjoyed them, they were fun.

Now I'm really curious how difficult Savage, Extreme, etc. actually are given how much these retards made a nothingburger out of Ivalice.

Depends on when you did Ivalice. Those raids got nerfed during 5.2 since they made them required to unlock the Save the Queen content. I ran them for the first time pre-nerf during 5.1 and they were definitely much less forgiving than they are now.

Savage isn't really hard but it's often time-consuming to prog since you need to learn all the mechs in synergy with your group or get good enough at the PF strats that you can execute the fights perfectly even with a rotating roster of dubious competence. Failing a mechanic is usually an instant kill and you'll often take down most of the party with you if you fuck up. Also dying during savage is extremely bad unless you're very geared or have some poompers in your party because the DPS checks are very tight.

Extreme is... hard to quantify. In theory, it's supposed to be as mechanically-intensive as a first or second turn of savage but because it's tuned for a lower item level relative to when it comes out in a raid tier, you can overgear it much more quickly, see mechs, and blow past enrage timers. I would say if you have a decent group, you should be able to clear a current extreme in two lockouts (around 2 hours).

 

[Well Intentioned]

Depends on when you did Ivalice. Those raids got nerfed during 5.2 since they made them required to unlock the Save the Queen content. I ran them for the first time pre-nerf during 5.1 and they were definitely much less forgiving than they are now.

I did it in like...January? I wanna say. And the mentors complaining about it was basically from when I picked up the game all the way to now.

Savage isn't really hard but it's often time-consuming to prog since you need to learn all the mechs in synergy with your group or get good enough at the PF strats that you can execute the fights perfectly even with a rotating roster of dubious competence. Failing a mechanic is usually an instant kill and you'll often take down most of the party with you if you fuck up. Also dying during savage is extremely bad unless you're very geared or have some poompers in your party because the DPS checks are very tight.

Extreme is... hard to quantify. In theory, it's supposed to be as mechanically-intensive as a first or second turn of savage but because it's tuned for a lower item level relative to when it comes out in a raid tier, you can overgear it much more quickly, see mechs, and blow past enrage timers. I would say if you have a decent group, you should be able to clear a current extreme in two lockouts (around 2 hours).

Yeah, I wanna start diving into savage/ultimate/ex/etc content eventually.

 

[FencePost]

I blame the babyfication attempts on the solo instances (most of them, at least) having easier difficulty options. I kinda liked it from a "we're insulting you by giving you baby mode" perspective, because you can only access them after getting steamrolled or dying in a duty once, but thanks to it existing it's trivial for complete, genuine retards to breeze through the game.

The armchair developers in the community are annoying to deal with but I still prefer SE's current stance of basically ignoring them. There's no solution they provide that doesn't lead to XIV's own variant of raid finder from WoW.

And that's when they complain about how jobs need to all be homogenized and simplified

Job homogenization has largely stemmed from the devs for XIV, not the player base, surprisingly. Most players would prefer some previous version of every job, especially AST. (poor, poor AST)

having no idea what's going on even if the game never tries to tell them that a blue line over a debuff means you can Esuna it, or what markers mean. Sure, it fosters interaction and gives mentors an opportunity to not mentor, but it'd contribute to a less retarded playerbase if the game actually gave newer players an option to learn.

SE very much needs to expand the Hall of the Novice content. No one reads quest or guildhest descriptions, nevermind tooltips.

 

[John Titor]

Imagine being someone who doesn't like Orbonne Kinostery. I consider that to be the gold standard of Alliance Raids: interesting gimmicks, fully voiced bosses telling you how they are going to fuck you up and you can use their audio cues as a learning tool.

 

[SouthernBitchBob]

"So what'd you get at level 72 Suzie?"
"Uhhhh, Aero 2 has a different animation and now inexplicably costs 200 more MP"

 

[Fcret]

Job homogenization has largely stemmed from the devs for XIV, not the player base, surprisingly. Most players would prefer some previous version of every job, especially AST. (poor, poor AST)

It's worth pointing out that this is largely a function of FFXIV's (until recently) constrained budget. It's cheaper and easier to put out engaging high-end content that's properly tuned if the jobs themselves only interact with a few simple gameplay systems. And it's not as if Heavensward had that much extra but it was still a pain to balance around.

I'd honestly be fine with them putting some of their newfound cash into broadening the game's systems but who knows how long that'll take with how conservative corpo Japanese game development is.

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"So what'd you get at level 72 Suzie?"
"Uhhhh, Aero 2 has a different animation and now inexplicably costs 200 more MP"

they really have no idea what they're doing with white mages anymore lmao

EDIT (holy shit):

They unironically fixed Living Dead. The mad lads actually did it. DRKchads stay winning.

EDIT II (Return to Editlice):

More lillies and Afflatus is now DPS neutral. White Mage is unironically saved too.

 

[SouthernBitchBob]

More lillies and Afflatus is now DPS neutral. White Mage is unironically saved too.

Ehhhh, I mean unless the math on buff windows looks real pretty it's still the worst healer in basically every single category. Then again I find healing in FFXIV does its level best to be as actively anti-fun as possible, so I stopped doing it a long time ago.

 

[Welsh Catgirl Enjoyer]

Ehhhh, I mean unless the math on buff windows looks real pretty it's still the worst healer in basically every single category. Then again I find healing in FFXIV does its level best to be as actively anti-fun as possible, so I stopped doing it a long time ago.

It's saved in the sense of "you're not punished for doing your job anymore".

It's still not necessarily the best healer. Though I will say it can be handy to have one in some raids, just so that I can use my Sage to keep us good for most of the time but when the massive damage spikes come in, I can basically let WHM take over.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

this is the first big, proper patch, right?

so their solution to paladin still being rather seriously below the other tanks in damage was to give it more healing, and their fix to the dancer was to make the steps weaponskills and otherwise do a very verbose amount of nothing? stripping out overpower's arc to make it literally the same as any other tank aoe and changing dragoon's jumps so that you can double-weave smacks of them homogenizing without any particular vision as to why.
Overpower's cone was extremely generous and considering you'd primarily be using that in content the warrior can already largely solo, I mean... why do it? And having to remember you don't double weave with jumps wasn't hard, and it isn't even like drg runs into situations where you'd have something else you could throw in those windows if you were pushing your buttons right.

 

[Welsh Catgirl Enjoyer]

and their fix to the dancer was to make the steps weaponskills and otherwise do a very verbose amount of nothing?

It took me a bit to figure it out given how confusing the changes were. But the big change is that it means Flourish and the 50% chance procs for dancer don't overwrite eachother now, meaning you can stack them together. Whereas before you were basically wanting to use up your procs before you used Flourish otherwise you were just wasting resources.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

Whereas before you were basically wanting to use up your procs before you used Flourish otherwise you were just wasting resources.

Even in the worst of cases, that's still like... three seconds of drift on flourish or so. Which while inconvenient and bad, yeah, isn't going to resolve the pretty extreme issues the job has with damage relative to its performance in ShB.

 

[Klokateer636]

As a SAM main, I'm not too sure what to think at the moment.

On one hand, Kaiten being removed is fair, as we only really used it one skill. So for it to get guaranteed crit is a good thing, not to mention that other skills are getting guaranteed crit too.

On the other, these skills have had their potencies massively reduced. I don't think or know if the guaranteed crit is going to be enough to cover for the potency loss.

I am, additionally, rather irritated with how angry some people seem to be on the forums and the reddit. For the most part, the community is really nice and encouraging, but then you get these moments of absolute rage, and I really fucking detest it. This especially seems to happen when job skills get fucked with.

Giving criticism is good, but getting a veiny throbbing rage boner for the devs is retarded by all measures. And this goes double for the furry loonies who "want to bully the devs" into making their changes.

The Sonic movie team fully deserved getting bullied for that monstrosity they originally created. The FFXIV does not deserve that kind of vitriol.

Back to SAM stuff, I'm willing to give these changes a shot, but if they really don't feel that great, I think itd be fair to offer feedback and suggestions to fix it.

 

[Fcret]

As a SAM main, I'm not too sure what to think at the moment.

On one hand, Kaiten being removed is fair, as we only really used it one skill. So for it to get guaranteed crit is a good thing, not to mention that other skills are getting guaranteed crit too.

On the other, these skills have had their potencies massively reduced. I don't think or know if the guaranteed crit is going to be enough to cover for the potency loss.

I am, additionally, rather irritated with how angry some people seem to be on the forums and the reddit. For the most part, the community is really nice and encouraging, but then you get these moments of absolute rage, and I really fucking detest it. This especially seems to happen when job skills get fucked with.

Giving criticism is good, but getting a veiny throbbing rage boner for the devs is retarded by all measures. And this goes double for the furry loonies who "want to bully the devs" into making their changes.

The Sonic movie team fully deserved getting bullied for that monstrosity they originally created. The FFXIV does not deserve that kind of vitriol.

Back to SAM stuff, I'm willing to give these changes a shot, but if they really don't feel that great, I think itd be fair to offer feedback and suggestions to fix it.

The main issue is that this change percolates across different jobs. Now any job with a critical rate buff (dancer, dragoon, bard, scholar etc) is going to see their rDPS drop and they'll be much less powerful. It fucks with the synergy quite a bit to the point where jobs with flat 'dumb' damage buffs are going to be preferred in a lot of comps.

So we've basically just looped around to comp stacking but without any of the neat shit from Heavensward that could justify it.

 

[Klokateer636]

The main issue is that this change percolates across different jobs. Now any job with a critical rate buff (dancer, dragoon, bard, scholar etc) is going to see their rDPS drop and they'll be much less powerful. It fucks with the synergy quite a bit to the point where jobs with flat 'dumb' damage buffs are going to be preferred in a lot of comps.

So we've basically just looped around to comp stacking but without any of the neat shit from Heavensward that could justify it.

This is why I think they'll end up undoing the changes come 6.2

I didn't play in Heavensward. I actually started in 5.4, when all the WoW guys were moving over. I quit wow in 8.0 and never played again, because I just hated the game so much at the point, but saw so many people saying to try FFXIV. I decided to give it a go and fell in love with the game and how the dev team manage themselves, especially YoshiP.

I say this t explain that I unfortunately don't have a personal reference as to how the game played back then.

The changes to SAM are absolutely going to have a wide spread impact. It wouldn't surprise me if they're wanting to get classes more in line with how RPR works.

I think the clases are going to get massive revamps in 7.0, regardless if they undo the changes in 6.2 or not.

The biggest problem they have which is causing all this is the button bloat. Without fixing this problem with the classes that are really feeling it, this potencies and job mechanics are going to throw issues.

 

[Dave.]

As a SAM main, I'm not too sure what to think at the moment.

On one hand, Kaiten being removed is fair, as we only really used it one skill. So for it to get guaranteed crit is a good thing, not to mention that other skills are getting guaranteed crit too.

On the other, these skills have had their potencies massively reduced. I don't think or know if the guaranteed crit is going to be enough to cover for the potency loss.

I am, additionally, rather irritated with how angry some people seem to be on the forums and the reddit. For the most part, the community is really nice and encouraging, but then you get these moments of absolute rage, and I really fucking detest it. This especially seems to happen when job skills get fucked with.

Giving criticism is good, but getting a veiny throbbing rage boner for the devs is retarded by all measures. And this goes double for the furry loonies who "want to bully the devs" into making their changes.

The Sonic movie team fully deserved getting bullied for that monstrosity they originally created. The FFXIV does not deserve that kind of vitriol.

Back to SAM stuff, I'm willing to give these changes a shot, but if they really don't feel that great, I think itd be fair to offer feedback and suggestions to fix it.

You mention the forums and it really doesn't surprise me Squeenix basically tunes it out given they write stuff like this:

 

[Fcret]

I say this t explain that I unfortunately don't have a personal reference as to how the game played back then.

There were a lot of 'weird' interactions in HW. For example, different jobs did different kinds of damage (slashing, piercing, etc) which meant that jobs that gave "slashing vulnerability +x%" were always paired with jobs that did slashing damage. Healers scaled off int for damage so they had a special button that would swap their mind and int stats for damage phases. And everyone had slots for cross-class skills (which you unlocked by leveling other classes) and often you would bring specific cross-class skills depending on the fight.

There was also a lot less homogeneity all around. Paladins were strong defensively, warriors could poomp damage, and dark knights could cheese certain fights because they had innately high magic mitigation. Astrologian cards would buff different stats so you'd have to think about what stat deficiencies were in your particular party and dole out cards that way (or fish for balance which was a flat damage buff and is basically the prototype for all of astro's cards these days).

The corners got rounded off hard in Shadowbringers and people are still a little upset. But one of the supposed upsides of this was that you didn't have to think so hard about comps anymore. Current design is meandering back into comps again except the jobs are still about as bland as they were in Shadowbringers.

I'm exaggerating this to a certain extent. In practice, most group play changed very little between Stormblood and Heavensward. But the lack of potential depth soured a lot of people and the dev team is still reeling from that an expansion later.

 

[Klokateer636]

-snip-

It really is understandable why they ignore it and the devs go along with what they feel is good.

That's not to say they don't take anything on board though. One cool thing I saw was during the Media Tour for EW, YoshiP had a conversation with someone regarding a job (I think it might have been MNK?), where they discussed changes and fixes and he said they'd look into it. It was really cool to see.

These images you've provided are just "Reeeee, I'm a bad a tank who can't control the situation and it's everyone else's fault!" & "REEEEE why can't we have crazy mechanics in PVE where I can feel like a god because I'm shit at PVP!"

Exactly the kinda of people you out on a permanent mute list.