Fantasy fiction is a psyop

[Squawking Macaw]

it still feels like a lot about pre-civilization humanity just does not make a lot of sense

Arguing that fantasy fiction is a psyop by the gubmint to cover up the existence of magic doesn't make a lot of sense either.

 

[I'm Retarded?]

A thing I will say about this is that.... humans give birth way less often than bugs do. With bugs I can believe they survive shit through sheer numbers because when they lay eggs, they lay dozens at a time and then they all hatch. Humans tend to have like, one baby a year.

That said, I guess we are way more durable. Autistic comparison time, its sort of a Protoss vs Zerg situation.

there's actually a term for this: r/K selection. the tl;dr is that quantity vs quality of offspring is a reproductive strategy that various organisms are filtered for over time. the limiting factor is the population of organisms a given environment can support (the K factor). in environments with less competition and more readily available resources, organisms tend to produce a large number of rapidly-growing offspring at once - r-selection, where r stands for rate of growth to adulthood. in environments with strict competition for resources, survival requires organisms that are more robust and resilient to be competitive, which results in K-selection - small numbers of offspring that grow slowly and must be carefully raised. this is one of those older frameworks that's been iterated on a few times in the intervening decades, but the general logic still holds.

Which, to be fair, define some protozoa as "the first human" (my post did allow for precursor races) and it becomes more believable as (if I'm remembering this right) they would have to survive mostly against other protozoa, and I guess I can buy that by the time whatever species first reached land and grew a brain it had some parenting instinct and rudimentary morality.

parenting is a survival strategy all complex organisms exhibit to some degree. if you spit out helpless babies and leave them to get eaten or annihilated by the elements, there's not much chance of your genes surviving to the next generation, is there?

I dunno though, it still feels like a lot about pre-civilization humanity just does not make a lot of sense, with both what I know of humanity now and what I know of nature.

to be fair, there's not a lot of sense to make. we have some fossil records but it mainly amounts to some rocks and bones a bunch of madlads dug out of the dirt and tried to figure out how the fuck they got there. what can be known about pre-historic humanity - that's humanity as it existed before they started drawing pictures and writing shit down - basically amounts to a handful of data points inferred from a few relics dug out of a few archaeological sites. if you want some edu-tainment on the subject, check out the game Nebuchadnezzar, whose campaign includes archeological and historical information on the development of early Mesopotamian civilization. I found it pretty interesting.

 

[skykiii]

Arguing that fantasy fiction is a psyop by the gubmint to cover up the existence of magic doesn't make a lot of sense either.

I never said anything about the government...

Also stop bringing sense into it!

parenting is a survival strategy all complex organisms exhibit to some degree. if you spit out helpless babies and leave them to get eaten or annihilated by the elements, there's not much chance of your genes surviving to the next generation, is there?

This was actually the thing I was suggesting in the first place: go back far enough, and you have a human or pre-human species/amoeba/protozoa/etc. that had to be the first one, meaning there was no parent to protect and teach it.

And even going with evolution (which yes I do believe in--and I've never understood why people think evolution and religion/mysticism/etc are at odds) it seems like the process should still have produced periods where the parent life form was not equipped to raise the child.

Heck, we often have that problem today. I can't imagine how much worse it must have been in cave man times.

Another thing I have issues with is morality. Again, its a problem we have today. Those seven bullies who surround the nerd in high school? The only reason they don't just kill the nerd is because they think they won't get away with it.

So you're telling me their cave man ancestors, in a world with no laws and no belief in the sanctity of life (indeed, a world where living in nature would have given them a "sacrifice the weak for the sake of the strong" ethos) wouldn't have killed Bob Ugh, the one who was actually looking into this whole "fire" thing?

 

[Meriasek]

This was actually the thing I was suggesting in the first place: go back far enough, and you have a human or pre-human species/amoeba/protozoa/etc. that had to be the first one, meaning there was no parent to protect and teach it.

You'd have to go back to the first agglomerations of proteins for that to be a thing, and then teaching and protection wasn't really a thing, either since they were just masses of molecules working on basic laws of physics that turned out to be stable.

 

[skykiii]

Arguing that fantasy fiction is a psyop by the gubmint to cover up the existence of magic doesn't make a lot of sense either.

Yeah I know I replied to this already, but honestly I want to go back to this because I honestly find the idea that all our fiction is actually teaching us really bad lessons and planting terrible ideas in our head, is way more interesting than yet another circlejerk about evolution.

...............

Now, I dunno about "the gubmint." In another topic I said I find it interesting how people always default to thinking that the highest power is the government.

What I was getting at with the OP is its possible magic is real, but the reason we don't see/notice it... or when we do, we actively avoid it/behave in retarded ways... because we've been psyoped into believing retarded shit.

It's not even just magic, either. Even practical stuff I sometimes see people have fucktarded ideas. Like the other day when I was getting lottery tickets, someone asked "why do you think you deserve to win?"

My answer was: who cares whether I "deserve" it or not?

This person was operating on some logic that people have to somehow earn it (some sort of karma shit) but like.... obviously it doesn't work like that. Obviously no karma determined whether or not Donald Trump or Bill Gates "deserved" to be millionaires.

It also happens in other theoretical fields. I see it a lot in time travel.

Again, for a story I understand needing rules and conflict and shit. But when I see people assuming that what goes for a movie or a book would likely also go for real life, I roll my eyes. Time is not a sentient force, it doesn't care whether you kill your grandfather or not. In essence, my personal theory is that Hitchhiker's Guide is the book that most closely approximates how it would "actually" work.

 

[Male Idiot]

@dreamworks face Not sure if you're serious, but I was wondering how long it would be until I got a Bible thumper in here. I'm surprised nobody's trying to co-opt my writings into some sort of "this is why the Bible is the

Bible thumpers are the new woke who newfagged the site up.
While just as retarded as the average breadtuber, they are at least somewhat better. Not by much, but at least they don't like jeets and niggers. They meet the bare minimum of Racism.

Now magic is in stories because if the mages have no drawback, there is no story reason to have non mages.

This is fine for a mage only kids show, but if you want to have non magic users, the mage needs to have a little downside.

The psyop part is escapism. While you play DnD or pray or watch sportsball, you aren't noticing (((them))) importing infinite browns.

K/r reproduction can be applied to humans.

Darkies have r reproduction strategies. Niggers, Gypsies and Jeets all reach sexual maturity a bit earlier and reprdoduce more.
There is an actual biological difference.

It isn't as noticable as with mice and elephants, but for allegedly the same species it is a wild difference. Dogs can exhibit the same biological differences.

Yet no scientist screams that collies and microbullies are the exact same.

 

[Meat Target]

ITT: "Fun, creativity, or imagination are haram and will not bring about Hyperborea. All your time and energy must be devoted to relitigating the past and joosperging about the present".

 

[skykiii]

ITT: "Fun, creativity, or imagination are haram and will not bring about Hyperborea. All your time and energy must be devoted to relitigating the past and joosperging about the present".

Not really sure how you got that interpretation.

 

[Male Idiot]

Not really sure how you got that interpretation.

My comment on DnD sports and churches all being circuses.

A good circus is fun, but Slomo had been abusing it lately. That' why now it is shitty, cheap propaganda.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

This is more dependent on whether your setting follows low fantasy or high fantasy. High fantasy would usually have magic widespread with very low barrier of entry, at most it's skill dependent like everything in our world. Low fantasy will be what OP described where it is heavily regulated.

Magic is usually regulated in the same way physics exists - If you don't have rules then everything falls apart.

As for irl magic existing, it makes no sense. Elites aren't a single body and were deposed throughout history. A magic vs magic war would have taken place, or some nepobaby would upload a video of himself casting fireball.

 

[Male Idiot]

This is more dependent on whether your setting follows low fantasy or high fantasy. High fantasy would usually have magic widespread with very low barrier of entry, at most it's skill dependent like everything in our world. Low fantasy will be what OP described where it is heavily regulated.

Magic is usually regulated in the same way physics exists - If you don't have rules then everything falls apart.

As for irl magic existing, it makes no sense. Elites aren't a single body and were deposed throughout history. A magic vs magic war would have taken place, or some nepobaby would upload a video of himself casting fireball.

The current (((elite))) as we know it are the Illuminati/hyper rich banker clans. Often of Akenazi origin, and as the gaming censorship shows, WEF, Visa, UN etc are all in on it.

While they are mostly united in the "West", aka North America and Europe, you argument is still valid.

We would have seen them cast magic at Russia and China, or deploy UFOs and other such conspiracy weapons.

Plus P Diddy would have just used his Negromancy to suppresss rumors.
These are not the baby oil bottles you are looking for.

If the Deep State Elites or whatever we call Globohomo had UFOs and wizards, there would have been an Uncle Sam parade in conquered Moscow before most of us were born.

The only out of this problem is that there are/were Ottoman,Axis, Nazi,Soviet, Chinese UFOs and Mages and somehow they were always perfectly matched and no goy/muggle ever noticed it. A magic/alien MAD scenario.

Or somehow they all agreed that despite their wars, this secret must be kept.

Which leads us to the question, are there epic magic duels going down by invisible mages? UFO stealth dogfights?

It would be retarded, but fun.

Imagine if Hamas Warlocks rode on flying carpets against Mossad Mages on flying dreidels. Summoned, invisible elementals fighting as Catch the Rainbow casts taunt on Kiwifarms. It is super effective.

Russian and Ukranian Necromancers would keep casting Zombie, which would explain why both sides claim they got a 10 - 1 kill ratio.

But there is no magic, just nepotism and money. I don't even think there is a plan beside line goes up and desperate hoping that cyrogenics will work, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

 

[skykiii]

My comment on DnD sports and churches all being circuses.

A good circus is fun, but Slomo had been abusing it lately. That' why now it is shitty, cheap propaganda.

Ahhh, I get it.

FWIW my own post was just kinda thought-experimenting and basically about how much fiction influences how we think, with a bit of "this thing might actually exist but we don't recognize it when we see it."

The other day I was talking to a friend of mine about people who claimed to have encountered time slips and the paranormal, and also mentioned I've had weird experiences myself. The thing is though.... Well, I call these kind of stories "Inkblots," in that there is no objective truth, and what conclusion you come to probably says more about you than about the facts of the case. The people who are inclined to believe will see things that make the "mundane" explanation make no sense, and vice versa.

I sometimes feel the same way about science. I hope this doesn't derail the topic but in another thread, some people were circlejerking about blacks being more prone to crime and saying they had data.... and like... well yeah, people who have racist views are going to see data that reinforces those views. People who think vaccines work are going to find data that reinforces those views. Anyone on the opposite side of the fence is going to look at that same data and find a million scientific research errors or methodology flaws or find out the research was funded by a special interest group or whatever....

But one thing I've always been interested in for a long time is, "how do we know this?" or "why do we think this?" Human rationality is not all its cracked up to be.

...................

So, Male Idiot brought up the idea that if magic or UFOs were real, they'd be public knowledge, we'd have been using them in wars.

I'm not entirely sure on either point.

First, the whole "they'd be public knowledge, and well known" thing.... I mean.... obstensibly they are. There's been so many declassified projects about the CIA or whoever doing research into things like remote viewing. The skeptical view is that none of it ever found anything and it turned out to be a government waste of money. Which, I mean, I can believe that--the government wasting money.

Of course, its also entirely possible they got results and then the "declassified" documents were a bullshit disinformation campaign.

And we hear all the time about Mutually Assured Destruction. Except we hear its due to nukes. But who is to say the "nuke" isn't actually the Ultima VII Armageddon Spell? Or that COVID wasn't actually the result of a miscast curse?

See, we're all more inclined to believe the science explanation... but that doesn't mean its actually more likely, or that it's true, just that we've been raised to think its more likely.

I'd like to point out (and sorry if this squicks some people): there's a lot of cultures in the world where they still think the size of a woman's chest has a relationship to how much breast milk they have. Japan will actually tell young girls that drinking lots of milk young will make their boobs bigger when they grow up. Scientifically both of these are bullshit, but they persist in people's consciousness because they seem logical.

It's a funny thing about human psychology: if you can make something make sense, people will buy anything. It's not that people are stupid--usually its just a matter of people not having the time or being all that motivated about whatever subject, so they're willing to go with the first thing that makes sense.

.................

Here's an example from this very thread:

A lot of people have told me "well, these things happen because stories need conflict."

Do they? Sure, nobody has done one yet (except for arguably A Garfield Christmas) but then, it took mankind thousands of years to invent the television, as well. Not being done yet doesn't make it impossible.

And even then, why does the conflict have to take this particular form? And I could keep going but I'm kinda giving myself a headache....

Question every assumption, no matter how fundamental.

 

[Male Idiot]

Timeslips amd deja vu are interesting topics. I think they are just brain errors.

But we still don't know how quantum physics work, how a particle can also be a wave.

On niggerbrains, things are always a pattern of averages.
Most darkies are dumber than you does not mean ALL darkies are dumber, just on average. Genetics is a complex web.

So you could say being black is a -2 INT for your wizza.
But if you spec into INT you can still get a good wizza out of it, gnomesaying?

Jews got +2 cunning, this does not mean they are all rogues. Just that they are better at it. But in fantasy this is elves, and they got big ears not big noses.

This also stands for vaccines. Most vaccines work. Experimental vaccines can still be a danger despite that.

You can also tamper with them. If I put diarrhea pills in your medicine, that doesn't mean all medicine makes you shit your pants. It just means I sabotaged yours.

As for fiction, it is easy. Most fiction needs you to have a balancing factor, a plot, motivation, conflict, character development, unless it is directed at children or retards. Yes I am looking at you, SOA and Harry Potter.

Magic mostly comes with the cultural baggage of the middle ages. So you need often some drawback, because otherwise your story gets boring or full of plot holes like Harry Potter.

This also means that generally fiction has more than mages, like DnD or general fantasy. If you make mages better than regular people with no drawbacks, generally you need to limit it. Middle ages means knights and archers too.

Darth Vader is a great warrior and wizard, but he is rare. And Disney still goes around the Skywalkers.

Same for Psykers. If you could use the Warp without any perils and at will for everyone, all marines could be Librarians.
Like the Gray Knights, but to keep things interesting, GKs are the sigle rarest faction. Custodes outnumber GKs 100 to 1.

Plus, you want to make a game, best use of resources is to let Conan, Zorro and Gandalf play the same game. Not 3 separate games, especially ina small town with few wart covered nerds.

On UFOs, if magic (as it is described in fiction, so Fireball) and alien tech was real, you would have had it used for combat in the last 2 centuries.

Especially if only one side, the US for example, had it. They would have used it like they did with nukes. They would also have Trump chimpout over having the Yugest, Biggest Explosion Magic/Sauciest Flying Saucer (with lazors) Ever.

They only stopped nuking when the enemy had it too. If they got alien tech, the Soviets would have needed to gain amd reverse engineer it at the same time.

It would have been deployed. What I feel is more likely is the CIA trying 3 things.

First, they want to obfuscate real operations. How did you know where the Russian Submarine was, Cia? Huehuehue, we had like a wizard tell us, lol. They won't leak Agent Burgerchov's cover who told on the submarine. That spyplane? That wasn't us that was aliens!

Second is simply being thorough. They need to investigate it, because if magic was real, and the Soviets had Yuri, the Kirov airships would be over Jew York already!

Third is propaganda. They puff up their chests and lie to seem stronger than they are. This deters threats domestic and foreign.

Sometimes humans notice bad patterns. Like Oppai from drinking milk or how bad smell makes you sick.

Before germ theory, people thought diseases were spread by poisoned air.

This does not seem that retarded if we discount microscopes, which they ddi not have.

Sick people often smell bad. People who smell them can get sick from breathing the same air.

So it only makes sense stinky air gives hands out black death.

Alchemy could be more real and easier to distinguish.

 

[I'm Retarded?]

On niggerbrains, things are always a pattern of averages.
Most darkies are dumber than you does not mean ALL darkies are dumber, just on average. Genetics is a complex web.

So you could say being black is a -2 INT for your wizza.
But if you spec into INT you can still get a good wizza out of it, gnomesaying?

Jews got +2 cunning, this does not mean they are all rogues. Just that they are better at it. But in fantasy this is elves, and they got big ears not big noses.

KF D&D night but instead of the D&D races it's all shit like this

RACE: NIGGER (+4 STR, -2 INT, -2 WIS)

 

[Male Idiot]

KF D&D night but instead of the D&D races it's all shit like this

RACE: NIGGER (+4 STR, -2 INT, -2 WIS)

Well my friend, all you need is to ask.

NIGGER: +4 STR, -2 INT -2 WIS
-Special Ability: Chimpout, Deal double damage for the first round, +1 damage for the rest of the fight.

JEW: +3 INT +3 CHARISMA -3 STRENGTH -3 THOUGHNESS
Special ability: Nose for Profit, +50% gold from all sources, and -50% discount on all purchases.

JEET: -2 STR, -1 INT, -2 CHARISMA, +3 THOUGHNESS, -1 WIS
Special ability: Chosen of Nurgle Saar, Immune to poison and disease.

YELLOW: -1 STRENGTH -1 THOUGHNESS -1 CHARISMA +2 INT +1 WIS
Special ability: Sweatshop, crafting is 50% faster and takes 50% less materials.

WHITE: +2 INT -2 WIS.
Special ability: Autism. Gain mastery of any one skill, loose -2 charisma.

Bonus DLC race:
ABBO: +2 THG -3 INT
Special ability: Dynastia's Taunt, the Abbo can taunt any target. He can also use petrol as healing potion.

 

[Squawking Macaw]

I honestly find the idea that all our fiction is actually teaching us really bad lessons and planting terrible ideas in our head,

If this is the point you wanted to argue there were plenty of examples you could've chosen that didn't make you sound like a schizo. Arguing that a fictional power is real while complaining that fiction is putting terrible ideas in our heads sounds a tad ironic.

Anyway, it's true that people in general are more prone to believing things they see in fiction than we'd like to admit, but fiction is partly based off of reality. To continue the magic example, when an audience sees a story where some people can shoot fireballs out of their hands, yet this never causes any problems like forest fires or gangs burning people on the streets, then they'd call that unrealistic because that would definitely happen in real life.

Being unrealistic isn't inherently bad, if the setting is more whimsical or idealistic then showing people getting burned alive would be too grimdark and out of place. Sometimes you want to read about the geopolitical consequences of magic, sometimes you just want a power fantasy where you can use it to solve all your problems, they both have their place.

A lot of people have told me "well, these things happen because stories need conflict."

Do they? Sure, nobody has done one yet (except for arguably A Garfield Christmas) but then, it took mankind thousands of years to invent the television, as well. Not being done yet doesn't make it impossible.

They don't need conflict, stories without conflict exist, but those with conflict are more likely to be successful, and most creatives want their stories to have at least some appeal.

 

[skykiii]

If this is the point you wanted to argue there were plenty of examples you could've chosen that didn't make you sound like a schizo.

That's only part of the point. Any post so simplistic that it can seriously be reduced to a pithy fortune cookie quote, is a post not worth making.

Frankly what I'm getting is that people want to see it purely as a writing thing because the idea of it possibly being real is too "weird" and "disturbing" and conflicts with their world view. And then of course the "writing" answer is one so obvious anyone with a braincell already thought of it--"its so stories have drama" Oh, nobody on Earth ever thought of that! How original!--and nobody wants to think there's anything deeper to it.

It's a funny thing, how people will come to a conclusion they're satisfied with then not want to look at a subject any further.

 

[Grub]

already thought of it--"its so stories have drama" Oh, nobody on Earth ever thought of that! How original!--and nobody wants to think there's anything deeper to it.

It's a funny thing, how people will come to a conclusion they're satisfied with then not want to look at a subject any further.

I really can't tell if this thread is supposed to be serious or not. It's not like fantasy is even the only genre to use that literary device. I'd totally be open to believing in real life magic. I've just yet to see even any hint that it could possibly exist. If anyone wanted to show me some real magic though I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[skykiii]

It's not about it, it's about "if this thing existed, what would be the implications for the society?" It's just that those implications are often negative.

It depends on the story, actually, and sometimes that's a forced interpretation.

To use other examples of "Cope Themes"--"Immortality would suck because you'd be watching everything you know and love turn to dust constantly."

Speaking as someone who tends to agree with that in particular... the fact is, unless you've actually experienced that, you can't know for sure. I also imagine it would by no means be universal.

Then of course, there's fiction that has nearly human robots, like Astro Boy, Mega Man (particularly the X series), and of course Terminator. What I think is interesting there is that nowadays we do have hooplah around AI, which is sorta like what Osamu Tezuka was on about, and he was part-right that some of the issue would be that they're taking jobs.

But that's interesting for my point as well. Nowadays we are dealing with something similar to the Astro Boy or Mega Man X situation--look at all the hooplah around AI--except the color it takes is very different because real AI isn't a "person" the way Astro Boy is.

Who is to say the same isn't true of magic, ghosts, paranormal entities etc. as well? With AI its obvious in part because we use the same terminology so its easy for people to connect the dots that both Astro Boy and ChatGPT are "AI." But for all you know, something paranormal is happening all around you but you don't recognize it because you call it something else and it behaves nothing like a ghost from a horror movie and it doesn't always get rocks when it goes Trick or Treating.

what if he knew the demon's True Name? did you think of that? yeah didn't think so. stay humble kid.

So... where did the concept of "True Name" and it giving you power over something come from?

I really can't tell if this thread is supposed to be serious or not. It's not like fantasy is even the only genre to use that literary device. I'd totally be open to believing in real life magic. I've just yet to see even any hint that it could possibly exist. If anyone wanted to show me some real magic though I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

To be honest I'm not really all that interested in convincing people. I'm convinced, and in fact sometimes I wonder if educating anyone else would actually be a good idea.

Let's say, for example, that tomorrow I actually discover a method for throwing fireballs like in D&D. Now I have to ask... do I want to tell anyone? Because as long as its my private knowledge, its something I have over everyone else. Or if it turns out I've got some special DNA that makes me immortal and immune to all diseases once I turn 50, I might wanna keep that under wraps so I don't spend my entire existence in a lab somewhere.

..... All that being said....

Going back to the posts you quoted, I have noticed before that there is a tendency for people to prefer the "rational" response, even if it actually makes less sense or the "rational" response is based entirely in lies--this is one of the reasons I dislike the worship of James Randi, who was known to blatantly make shit up but for some reason when he does it, its okay.

I also actually had a previous topic on here where I talked about strange coincidences I had been experiencing, and people tried to cope and say it was all "Youtube Algorithm." Even though one of my experiences involved a brick and mortar store and could not have possibly been influenced by Youtube.

What I find interesting, reading it now, is that when I pointed out all these issues, the best anyone could come up with is that I was suggesting reality revolves around me. Because that's totally why I would post a topic asking "does this happen to anyone else?" But it also shows the problem: Apparently either I'm not experiencing it, or I have a bad case of Main Character Syndrome? Those are the only two options? It can't possibly be that maybe its more common than you think and nobody wants to acknowledge it? There are no third, fourth, and fifth possibilities because the entire idea is too complicated for the little monkeys to understand?

Agent Scully can tweak me a new nipple with that bullshit.

 

[skykiii]

I really can't tell if this thread is supposed to be serious or not.

Sorry for the doublepost but I wanna ask:

When you say "supposed to be serious," what do you mean?

A lot of times online, people believe in this weird dichotomy that something that's "not meant to be serious" can't still be making a point. Even though using comedy as a commentary is something human beings have been doing for fucking ever.

So essentially I'm hearing you want me to say its all a shitpost so you can dismiss it.

But, ya know, this is Deep Thoughts... the same section that every day, has topics about how black people are destroying society, the Jews are Satanic and are secretly behind everything bad that happens, and everything in the world is a plot by literal Satan to rape young boys....

Food for thought: why is that stuff something to take seriously but anything I've said is just so crazy you're immediately looking for a dismissal?

It's almost like it actually is a deep thought and that scares people.