Egg Freezing - Potential psyop?

[snowdunes]

I just saw this video of this "Science™ communicator" Cleo Abram, and it feels like an ad with a psyop vibe to it (she worked for Vox). I want to hear the KF take on this (especially the femoids).

I'm going to put this straight (as a moid). Most moids would never trust this as a "fertility guarantee" in the dating scene, moids would just keep going for a younger women instead, with the consideration of the extra cost of this "service" (both through tax & private costs) and the risks itself (it won't work).

With that being said, I want the femoids take on this: Are you comfortable with a corporation or the government is now in charge with your eggs (literally)?

I would be paranoid as fuck if someone had that kind of a leverage over me, that after (around) 30 - 35 I have to start putting all my faith in a corp./gov. to keep my chances of having my own future (healthy) kids safe/higher. If I were a criminal (let's say for "hate speech"), can they just throw it out? Is it a subscription service to keep them safe (just missed a payment = no baby in the future for you). What policy would it be for you to trust this?

The process includes surgery (physical extraction of eggs) and a few days of drug injections. Are you ok with this, rather than just having kids earlier? I'm so curious about the mindset to trust and to go through with this.

Spoiler: Archive

"The Truth About Egg Freezing", uploaded 11 June 2024

Description:

Your body doesn't work like you think...
Take your personal data back with Incogni. Use code CLEOABRAM at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: http://incogni.com/cleoabram

How and when people are having kids is changing, but our bodies aren't. As we get older, it can get harder to have kids when we want to. So smart people figured out it’s possible to remove eggs, freeze them, and unfreeze them to use later. They can even fertilize those eggs to make embryos and freeze those. Basically, humans invented cryosleep! … Just for tiny cells.

It’s totally sci-fi - and you need to know about it. This is a level of control over our bodies no species has ever had before. It’s already changing people’s lives - and how our species can reproduce. But there are real concerns about whether it’s worth it. Because let me tell you, the process is not easy.

I’ve been taking medication for two weeks. And at the same time, I’ve been doing research, talking to doctors, and learning as much as I can about the cutting edge of fertility tech. In this video, I'm going to take you behind the scenes into my own process to answer three big questions: Why do egg freezing? How does it actually work? And what is the future here - if this tech keeps getting better - how might egg freezing be huge, if true?

Chapters:
0:00 What is egg freezing?
1:30 Why is egg freezing so popular?
2:55 What is egg quantity?
3:32 What is egg quality?
4:30 Why does egg quality decline with age?
5:59 This is hard to talk about
7:45 Why don’t we have cryosleep yet?
8:46 Why does egg freezing work?
9:28 How does egg freezing work?
10:37 Egg freezing timeline
11:57 My egg freezing process
13:45 Egg freezing side effects
15:13 Egg freezing cost
15:40 Egg freezing success rates
16:49 Why egg freezing is huge if true
18:30 Getting surgery
19:30 Feeling grateful
21:01

You can find me on Instagram here: / cleoabram
On TikTok here: / cleoabram
Or on Twitter here: / cleoabram

Bio:
Cleo Abram is an Emmy-nominated independent video journalist. On her show, Huge If True, Cleo explores complex technology topics with rigor and optimism, helping her audience understand the world around them and see positive futures they can help build. Before going independent, Cleo was a video producer for Vox. She wrote and directed the Coding and Diamonds episodes of Vox’s Netflix show, Explained. She produced videos for Vox’s YouTube channel, was the host and senior producer of Vox’s first ever daily show, Answered, and was co-host and producer of Vox’s YouTube Originals show, Glad You Asked.

Additional reading and watching:
- Frozen in time: How to deep freeze an organ and bring it back to life https://www.science.org/content/artic...
- The Near Future of Vitrification of Oocytes and Embryos https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
- Census data on fertility https://www.census.gov/library/storie...
- U.S. median age for giving birth hits 30, NBC https://www.nbcnews.com/news/motherho...
- The sharp rise in egg freezing, BBC https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/...
- ‘Sobering’ Study Shows Challenges of Egg Freezing, NYT https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/he...
- “The failed promise of egg freezing,” Vox https://www.vox.com/health/24141538/e...
- Female fertility age chart: chances of getting pregnant by age https://ro.co/fertility/female-fertil...
- Role of maternal age and pregnancy history in risk of miscarriage study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...

Vox: https://www.vox.com/authors/cleo-abram
IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10108242/

Gear I use:
Camera: Sony A7SIII
Lens: Sony 16–35 mm F2.8 GM
Audio: Sennheiser SK AVX and Zoom H4N Pro

Music: Musicbed, Tom Fox
Musicbed SyncID MB011LUBHZKIS4X

Follow along for more episodes of Huge If True: https://www.youtube.com/cleoabram?sub...

—
Welcome to the joke down low:

What’s wrong with the egg who never laughs?
He can’t take a yolk.

Find a way to use “laugh” in a comment to let me know you’re a real one who made it to the end of the description

Vasectomies are totaly reversal, (((trust))) me bro.

 

[Eagle Bro]

Stupid bitch, are you going to put out or not? If not then you have no right to be mad when guys move on to women who will consensually put out.

 

[isalaide]

The chances of it working are pretty low, once you take into account the odds of IVF being successful in combination with the odds of a successful unfreeze.

These decisions are all mercifully behind me in time now, but it's not something I would have considered as a young woman, let alone relied on.

I would have considered clomiphene tablets if I had been identified as having an issue with ovulation, but I would not have considered any further or more invasive fertility procedure. We had discussed this long before we were married, and we strongly preferred to adopt. We have ethical issues around IVF such that we wouldn't have been willing to use it for ourselves. I fully support those who choose to do so.

I was asked to consider doing an egg retrieval procedure to donate to a formerly close friend. I was not willing to do so.

There is no such thing as a fertility guarantee for anyone, male or female. The rate of male infertility is skyrocketing: around 7% of all UK men and about 11 to 15% in the US. It is very, very unwise to choose any partner on the assumption they will be fertile. The UK figures for couples seeking fertility treatment follow a broad rule of thirds: one third of the cases are due to the woman being infertile, one third due to the man's infertility, and one third are nonspecific, i.e. they don't appear to be individually infertile, but together they just don't reproduce.

Is it a subscription service to keep them safe (just missed a payment = no baby in the future for you).

You may not be aware, but if you have IVF and freeze unused 'leftover' embryos, this is exactly what happens if you miss your payments to store them. They are disposed of. In the UK, they also can only be stored for a specific length of time, so if you aren't able or can't afford to have them implanted before that time limit expires, they will also be destroyed in accordance with the law.

 

[Shitted Scaredless]

Once I went to Crack an egg and it was frozen. It came out of the normal fridge mind you. It sure felt like an op. Just a weird experience all around.

 

[Brain Power]

Counterpoint:

Adams remembers feeling a wonderful sense of freedom after she froze her eggs in her late 30s, despite the $19,000 cost. Her plan was to work a few more years, find a great guy to marry and still have a house full of her own children.

Things didn’t turn out the way she hoped.

In early 2017, with her 45th birthday looming and no sign of Mr. Right, she decided to start a family on her own. She excitedly unfroze the 11 eggs she had stored and selected a sperm donor.

Two eggs failed to survive the thawing process. Three more failed to fertilize. That left six embryos, of which five appeared to be abnormal. The last one was implanted in her uterus. On the morning of March 7, she got the devastating news that it, too, had failed.

Adams was not pregnant, and her chances of carrying her genetic child had just dropped to near zero. She remembers screaming like “a wild animal,” throwing books, papers, her laptop — and collapsing to the ground.

 

[Kufungisisa]

It's harder to have a child later on not just because of eggs but because of increased risks in pregnancy, not having the energy or mobility to keep up with a child, the fact you will certainly die much earlier than the majority of parents are expected to live.

It's harder on the child than it is on the parents, it's selfish.

The menopause exists for a reason (all the other crap that goes along with it can fuck off though).

 

[MrTroll]

Try cooking them instead retard

 

[Gimmighoul]

imo egg freezing is one of those "playing god" things. it shouldn't be a thing. we shouldn't do it. and the fact that the government uses resources on such a thing puts a weird taste in my mouth.

same with things like in vitro fertilization as a whole. fertility treatments in general, even. it shouldn't be a thing, and i see everyone who considers or tries these approaches to be some sort of power-hungry freak.
if you're too old and suddenly changing your mind, you did that to yourself. should have thought about it sooner.
if you're 'not viable' through other reasons, learn to live with your shit genetics.

 

[Optavia Sales Rep]

I'm not going bother watching the video. If you go through with this process, you are putting A LOT of faith in several different systems all working in harmony. If any step of the collection, freezing, thawing, fertilization, or implantation of your eggs is done incorrectly, it will not work.
For some couples that want biological children, there's no other option but IVF.
Marketing the freezing of eggs as a service for couples/women who do have other options is a recipe for disappointment and heartbreak.

 

[Sweetie Kitty]

They threw me out of the ivf clinic for eating the eggs like dip n dots

 

[2mm and 99 others]

An important prerequisite to a marriage and then parenthood is the ability to fall for someone and feel this man is the right one, be it really the right one or not. Even if it's not, he's at least likely to be genetically compatible. If you failed in that, maybe some things weren't given to you and the genetic material isn't supposed to be forwarded.
Deal with it and better squander the money on coping. Lainey Molnar style might be cringe, but still better than wasting money on a highly unreliable process, where in every step, shit can go wrong.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Egg freezing is dangerously close to surrogacy. Its for all intents and purposes the female version of surrogacy. Surrogacy exists for Men who can't be bothered to form a meaningful relationship with a woman and make her a wife and mother. Egg freezing by contrast allows woman to put off the biological clock in a search for the "perfect" husband and father. Of course nobody is perfect and so in an act of pure perversion quite often frozen eggs end up in a surrogate anyway. And even if they don't there is then odds on good chance they end up with a faceless sperm donor since most men are absolutely not interested in an infertile woman unless they've already had kids, got divorced and are now just looking for companionship rather then a family.

Facts of life.

Egg Freezing is a lie given to women similar to sperm freezing for young boys being conditioned to troon out and cut off their balls. Its not a panacea. It has complications, and the end result is not how it appears in the pamphlet.

 

[oishii desu]

You may not be aware, but if you have IVF and freeze unused 'leftover' embryos, this is exactly what happens if you miss your payments to store them. They are disposed of. In the UK, they also can only be stored for a specific length of time, so if you aren't able or can't afford to have them implanted before that time limit expires, they will also be destroyed in accordance with the law.

Is embryo adoption common in the UK? I've heard of a few people choosing that path and I always struggle to fully comprehend the decision behind it.

More on topic, I guess I shouldn't really be surprised that there is an egg freezing subreddit, but I am.

 

[crazedaze]

The earlier you do this as a woman, the more your lifetime earnings drop. You really have to be kind of retarded to pay for the privilege

 

[CharcoalChkn]

Are you comfortable with a corporation or the government is now in charge with your eggs (literally)?

No.

If I run out of time to have a child then that's on me and my decisions. It's rather freaky for me to think about how much technological interference is involved with one of the most natural processes in the world.

There are exceptions of course that benefit the safety both mother and baby (medical intervention type stuff), but ultimately I think egg freezing is creepy.

 

[LazyLizard]

i remember reading a story a while back about some pumped up feminist who froze her eggs and then spent decades sleeping around and doing whatever she wanted then when it was time to "get pregnant" none of the eggs were viable anymore and she got so depressed about it.

 

[Dagoth AMOGUS]

Isn’t the traditional way to get pregnant more fun? Call me simple and old fashioned

 

[glioblastoma multiforme]

I know a few women who have done this so can offer more than just speculation.

Are you comfortable with a corporation or the government is now in charge with your eggs (literally)?

That is not a consideration most people considering freezing their eggs care about. Honestly I think its less uncomfortable than paying for corporations to hold your DNA profile on file just out of interest, as in 23&me etc. At least you are getting something out beyond just mildly interesting facts of sometimes dubious quality, even if its far from a guarantee.

a few days of drug injections.

These injections are painful and exhausting. The FSH tires you out cos your body is working overtime developing follicles. Then there is a drug that induces menopause like symptoms to prevent you ovulating early. It is a physically and mentally gruelling process. There is also time out of works for scans, and then for the 48 hours after egg collection, during which you are directed not to do even basic household tasks.

Are you ok with this, rather than just having kids earlier?

Its not that simple. Not a single person I know who has frozen their eggs wouldn't prefer to have just been able to start having kids then. Some had long term relationships fall apart in their early 30s and didn't want to just start making babies with the first new man that came along. Some live in horrendously unaffordable cities and are freezing their eggs to buy time while figuring out how to get out to somewhere they can raise a family without their careers taking a hit.

Then there are people who undergo fertility preservation prior to cancer treatment.

For every person who gets their eggs frozen, its a complex decision. I suspect the number who do it just so they can slag it about a few extra years is in a tiny minority.

Its not unreasonable to want to feel economically secure and established in your career before starting a family, at the very least I'd want to own my home with a good few years of mortgage payments under my belt.

Sadly I don't know any families who started in their 20s who aren't living extremely precariously, struggling to make ends meet, often in the uncertainty of the rental sector. They are mostly still together as couples too, if a dad nopes out it is staggeringly difficult. Is that a better option than preserving your fertility and giving your child a more secure upbringing?

As for the "playing god" argument, if you accept medical intervention you already are so quit moralising on others' decisions and go die of typhoid.

the fact you will certainly die much earlier than the majority of parents are expected to live.

Erm, what? Sources or it didn't happen.

 

[umami's milk]

WHT regulars are now poking gorls in their own forum. Truly war has commenced.

 

[Rootless Cosmopolitan]

Egg freezing is a depressing scam. Big corporations offer this “benefit” as a ruse to keep you a busy worker bee instead of having babies. Women should have children before 35ish and men before 40ish or else the rates of abnormalities go way up.

Autism is associated with older fathers: are these egg-freezing women going to also purchase younger sperm? No, they’ll probably be using sperm from their similarly-aged (if not older) male partner. So only mitigating the woman’s side of the risk.

It’s all a terrible idea. Society just has to be set up again in a way that’s conducive to people having kids at the optimal biological time. Your 20s-mid 30s are for having kids. Men can push this into their late 30s-early 40s. These time windows have been consistently when kid-making has peaked for all of human history and I see no reason to change that.