Do you ever miss Michael Jackson?

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I'm a millennial so I knew him for his whacko Jacko antics not the music.

But about that music... "Thriller" the album seems to be an usual aberration for him. In other words it's too good to be just him producing it. There was definite leg work big time from other people involved. The album's after that where he got more creative control are generic to absolutely terrible.

When he lost Quincy it was buh bye good music.
I know way too much about the subject of Michael Jackson, so I will sperg for a bit here.

There’s more to Michael than Just losing Quincy.
Prior to Thriller, Off the Wall has become the best selling album by a black artist, but he wasn’t mega famous by any stretch. He was still famous of course but was still a member of the Jacksons. When Thriller came out it was the perfect storm. It was the end of 1982, Disco had died, it has mixed of R&B, hair metal, and even Sinatra style swing creating the poppy feel that would define the genre for decades to come, and it shot Michael into mega stardom.
Then just a few months later the Motown 25 performance happened which debuted the moonwalk and showed his dominance as a solo performer, then Billie Jean, Beat It, and thriller’s music videos came out throughout the year and got massive play on MTV and blew him up further. Leading to his 8 Grammy wins, which unheard of at the time.
In less than two years Michael went from being the most popular member of a band that had lost its spotlight to the Most famous person in the world. Then the following year his head catches fire at a Pepsi commercial which lead to a life of wigs and pain killers, he embarked on a pity tour with his brothers they got fucked over by Don King, his skin started blotching from vitiligo which forced him to bleach the rest of his skin to even it out, etc etc.
The 4 year gap from Thriller in 1982 to Bad in 1986 was filled with an insane amount of stuff, far more than what you’d expect from a single musician, and you really notice it in when you listen to Bad.

Take Michael’s previous output into full consideration. Usually it would go 3 Jackson 5 albums 1 solo album, that’s why we have Got To Be There, Ben, Music and Me, Dear Michael, and Farewell my Summer Love(unreleased until 1984 due to the Motown split) all in between regular Jackson 5 albums. Most of the songs on these albums were designed to fit seamlessly into the Jackson 5 stage show. This was a standard practice back in the day to maximize off of a band. Do a main album, then give the lead a few solo albums to double dip. Even Off the Wall, which released between the Jacksons albums Destiny in 1978 and Triumph in 1980, was meant to feel like the same disco funk you’d find in a late era Jackson’s’ concert. There are good songs in these albums, and I could rave about a lot of them, but you can tell that they’re still your standard double dip solos.

Initially Thriller had that intention too, but was also meant to usher in a new sound for the 1980’s. This is most evident if you listen look at the Victory Tour itself.


The set list is made up of 12 songs and 3 medleys. If the 12 regular songs, 8 are from Michael’s solo albums, and 4 of those are from Thriller. But, the two least Jacksons-y songs in the set list, Beat It and Billie Jean come at the finale. This was not just done to hype up the end, it was also done because they don’t fit the sound the way the others do. Wanna Be Startin’ Something is very much a disco song and works perfectly with the older Jacksons discography. Human Nature wasn’t disco, but was a slow ballad that also fit well with the others. With this in mind, you can tell that only Thriller, Beat It, and Billie Jean Don’t fit the “Jacksons” sound. Did you notice something about that line up? They’re the middle of the album and both end the first side and begin the second side of the record. Deliberately placed to be a new sound that could continue the act, but they had the adverse effect of making Michael himself far more hip than intended. These 3 songs eclipsed his brothers and made the Jackson’s’ song list feel dated by comparison.

Now fact in all of this and look at Bad. Bad is the first album made specifically to be a solo album for Michael without any influence or intention for it to be connected to the Jacksons. It aims to achieve in even greater sound difference, and it’s also an album that incorporates an insane 4 years the man had leading up to it. Bad is the true album Michael used to define himself as a solo act and also an album deliberately trying to be new and fresh for the 1980’s at all times. Gone are all the disco, soul, and R&B melodies that filled the previous two albums, or you have more hair metal and rock, you’ve got more in your face pop, and you’ve got more attitude. This shift in the difference you’re describing, but it has nothing to do with losing Quincy. Quincy was on Bad. This was just Michael having a late break out album to define himself as different from his childhood band. He even changed how he sang to add more texture and grit in his voice. And noticeably, during the Bad Tour, Heartbreak Hotel was the only Jacksons song to remain in the proper set list(the 1987 shows in Japan and Australia used the victory tour set list with a few added songs), but the only off the wall songs were Workin’ Day and Night and She’s Out of My Life. The Bad Tour and every other tour onward had a more hard pop/rock heavy set list, which was the style of music Michael made from Bad - History.
Invincible is the interesting album because it’s more of a R&B album with no rock songs at all on it. In many ways, Invincible is the closest to a thriller follow up in terms of style, but this was mainly because the heavily textured singing he had been doing royally fucked his voice during the Bad tour. Seriously. Listen to him sing Wanna Be Startin’ Something during the victory tour and then listen to him sing it during the History Tour. You understand immediately why almost all of the history tour was lip syncing

But there, my sperging about his music is done
 
When Thriller sells over 50 million copies, History selling 20 million seems like a steep decline. My scorching hot take is that Janet started eclipsing Michael after the mid 90s. I think Michael made a mistake by leaving Quincy Jones, Janet was smart enough to keep working with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

The molester accusations have long since been deboonked but he made too many PR mistakes in the 90s and 2000s. The fact there’s an industry dedicated to lying about Michael Jackson 15 years after he’s been in the ground is a testament to how legendary he was when alive. I think his animosity towards the tribe would eventually do him in and likely was a big factor behind his downfall.

A Michael Jackson x Kanye West collaboration album featuring how much they hate Jews would have been fucking amazing though.
 
As an adult, I wish he leaned more into rock songs like Dirty Diana and Give Into Me instead of the pop stuff.

The melody to Give Into Me sounds similar to How Can I Laugh Tomorrow by Suicidal Tendencies to me, by the way.
 
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When Thriller sells over 50 million copies, History selling 20 million seems like a steep decline. My scorching hot take is that Janet started eclipsing Michael after the mid 90s. I think Michael made a mistake by leaving Quincy Jones, Janet was smart enough to keep working with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

The molester accusations have long since been deboonked but he made too many PR mistakes in the 90s and 2000s. The fact there’s an industry dedicated to lying about Michael Jackson 15 years after he’s been in the ground is a testament to how legendary he was when alive. I think his animosity towards the tribe would eventually do him in and likely was a big factor behind his downfall.

A Michael Jackson x Kanye West collaboration album featuring how much they hate Jews would have been fucking amazing though.
It’s not a hot take. While it’s true that none of Janet’s albums sold close to Off the Wall, thriller, Bad, or Dangerous, she did do better than History and Invincible.
History had issues due to the Jews forcing it off shelves early on and then also the molestation stuff, and invincible was sabotaged by Sony, so it’s possible under peak conditions he could have still sold more than Janet, but Janet also put out more music keeping her relevant. after the 1993 allegations, Michael shut himself away and stopped doing much of anything
 
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It’s not a hot take. Well it’s true that none of Janet’s albums sold close to Off the Wall, thriller, Bad, or Dangerous, she did do better than History and Invincible.
History had issues due to the Jews forcing it off shelves early on and then also the molestation stuff, and invincible was sabotaged by Sony, so it’s possible under peak conditions he could have still sold more than Janet, but Janet also put out more music keeping her relevant, after the 1993 allegations, Michael shut himself away and stopped doing much of anything

Invincible was really bad though.. Like oh my lord. All his albums are on YouTube and Invincible was just bad. There was no sabotage.
 
Invincible was really bad though.. Like oh my lord. All his albums are on YouTube and Invincible was just bad.
I wouldn’t say bad, just painfully 2001. It can’t decide if it wants to be an R.Kelly album or an NSYNC album. Then you have stuff like Lost Children which is beyond cheesy.
But, unlike History, it isn’t filled with songs they were recorded for previous albums but left off, so it has that going for it. Really it just lacks any vision, and the good songs from can exist in a compilation fully divorced from the intended context
 
I wouldn’t say bad, just painfully 2001. It can’t decide if it wants to be an R.Kelly album or an NSYNC album. Then you have stuff like Lost Children which is beyond cheesy.
But, unlike History, it isn’t filled with songs they were recorded for previous albums but left off, so it has that going for it. Really it just lacks any vision, and the good songs from can exist in a compilation fully divorced from the intended context

" The lost children" - that was the one that took me back. That was a whole pile of cheese not too mention that pedo charges and to write a song like that in spite of...

The rest of the album is a mess as well. 2000 watts sounds like it was meant to be sung by a 20 year old not someone Jacksons age at the time.
 
Seriously. Listen to him sing Wanna Be Startin’ Something during the victory tour and then listen to him sing it during the History Tour. You understand immediately why almost all of the history tour was lip syncing

I had time, so I gathered clips for an easy comparison. I intentionally picked shows earlier in the tours, though obviously some performances were better or worse than others.

Victory Tour - 1984



Bad Tour - 1988



Dangerous Tour - 1992



History Tour - 1996

 
Due to @LiquidKid extremely informative post, I decided to do a little searching on the good ol' internet. I was in grade school in the 1982-1984 years and generally "knew" about some of this stuff, but it was strictly thru the news, or school gossip, as I was not an MJ fan.

If you Google "'Did Michael Jackson have a Thriller tour?" Google AI will state that he did indeed tour from 1982 to 1983 on the "Thriller World Tour" which confused me as I'd understood that he did not tour during this time. Anyhow, google AI pulled its info from an MJ fanfic site for that nugget of information, lol.

Do I miss MJ, no, I was never a fan.

Edit: Genuinely curious as to what your disagreeing with here @Vyse Inglebard . If it's the Google ai thing, it does indeed state that Jackson toured in 1982/83 and it links to an MJ" fanon" site.
 
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Due to @LiquidKid extremely informative post, I decided to do a little searching on the good ol' internet. I was in grade school in the 1982-1984 years and generally "knew" about some of this stuff, but it was strictly thru the news, or school gossip, as I was not an MJ fan.

If you Google "'Did Michael Jackson have a Thriller tour?" Google AI will state that he did indeed tour from 1982 to 1983 on the "Thriller World Tour" which confused me as I'd understood that he did not tour during this time. Anyhow, google AI pulled its info from an MJ fanfic site for that nugget of information, lol.

Do I miss MJ, no, I was never a fan.

Yeah, no. There was never a Thriller tour, which would have been interesting to see since he didn't really have the solo setlist to back up a full tour at the time. The closest we have to what a Thriller tour would have been is the Japan/Australia version of the Bad Tour in 1987, which is just the Victory tour+

What you probably might have heard about was how fucked the Victory tour was. Don King set it up so you had to pay the price of 4 tickets to enter a lottery for the opportunity to getting tickets to the show, you couldn't just buy one and you didn't have a guarantee. No refunds, nothing. The entire tour was a big scam, and Michael had to give his entire salary to charity just to save face. You can find a lot of angry news reports about it on youtube.

One of the unique aspects of MJ being MJ is that every single concert he ever did was very well documented, a good portion with bootlegs of some kind. And because he was so heavily documented, you can basically google where he was and what he was doing at any point from 1980 until his death and get a pretty accurate record of it. It's so well documented that you know exactly what songs were lip synced, what were performed live, what stage blunders happened, and even when he had a cold on his tours. Michael Jackson fans are the most extreme of stalkers and make the whole story around the man himself even crazier, which is probably why he's always been my celebrity lolcow. There's even a youtube channel that documented the man's entire life by year with all the relevant news reports, giving you a chris chan comprehensive history level understanding of what he was doing each month of each year, only without a narrator


 
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@LiquidKid I didn't even know that he wasn't touring off the Thriller album until a few years ago. I would have thought a tour from that album would have been a no brainer, but as you point out, he was still kind of locked in with the rest of the Jacksons and until the album came out, who knew it would be such a sensation, despite the fact that it was obvious he had outgrown the brothers.

All I really heard at the time about the Victory tour (that I can remember) is Michael was feuding with the brothers, and at the time, I tended to think those stories, as cool as they sounded, were about the same as the then current story of the guys that played Bo and Luke Duke (of the Dukes of Hazard) beating the shit out of each other in a hospital. I figured it was gossip rag baloney, at least that's what my dad told me when I told him about that kind of stuff, lol.

Anyhow, great work laying all this out. It's always interesting getting clued in about stuff that happened in the past that I lived thru and thought I "knew" about, and as it turns out, I really didn't know shit, lol.
 
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Liquid kid, he was the first lolcow. I remember his tabloids covers in the 2000's. That's why I made this thread. I honestly loved watching his train wreck behavior back then... that sounds cruel, but goddamn, he was so wild and out of control and he was fucking crazy.

That Bashir documentary was a masterpiece. After he dangled that baby he was questioned by Martin Bashir a few days later and said he didn't regret it. lol oh my god.. Jacko...

That baby feeding scene under the green scarf was also a "moment,".
 
Liquid kid, he was the first lolcow. I remember his tabloids covers in the 2000's. That's why I made this thread. I honestly loved watching his train wreck behavior back then... that sounds cruel, but goddamn, he was so wild and out of control and he was fucking crazy.

That Bashir documentary was a masterpiece. After he dangled that baby he was questioned by Martin Bashir a few days later and said he didn't regret it. lol oh my god.. Jacko...

That baby feeding scene under the green scarf was also a "moment,".
My absolute favorite cope I ever heard about the baby dangling came from I believe an MTV special where some black chick said "Haven't you seen the Lion King? This is the traditional African way to show off your prince!"
Now I'm not black, but I'm pretty sure that most black people don't dangle their infant from a balcony.
 
My absolute favorite cope I ever heard about the baby dangling came from I believe an MTV special where some black chick said "Haven't you seen the Lion King? This is the traditional African way to show off your prince!"
Now I'm not black, but I'm pretty sure that most black people don't dangle their infant from a balcony.

I was only 12 when it happened but I remember magazine covers that talked about him being literally headed for forced psychiatric admission after the dangling. Covers like "he will kill his kids and then himself".

Honestly he was absolutely mentally ill the situation could have ended worse than it did. I think if he would have lost custody of his kids like everyone wanted him to he probably would have committed suicide. He should have never have had three kids in his custody during the trial but I get the sense he was ready to go over the edge a lot quicker then people think. It's a shock he made it to the end of the 2000's.
 
Also you can't tell me he wasn't the original call me Kaitlyn

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