Catholocism

[Florence]

Fair enough, BUT - do you think that maybe the divide between "we venerate our saints and have days dedicated to them, pray to them (?), etc" and "we actively worship saints as gods" isn't very big?

It seems like a technicality, a semantic difference, to keep GodJesus and the rest of the Holy Trinity or whatever it is Catholics pray to separate from the pantheon of Saints in order to maintain a semblance of monotheism while still having that extended pantheon with "patron saints of pants shitting" and "patron saints of oatmeal-cooking" that you can call upon if you need help in one of those specific areas.

It just reminds me a lot of Hinduism, Ancient Greece and to a degree other mythologies (Slavic and Nordic) where there would be small gods responsible for specific things.

As far as I understand it, it's not praying to them so much as it is asking them to intercede with God on your behalf in a certain area.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

Fair enough, BUT - do you think that maybe the divide between "we venerate our saints and have days dedicated to them, pray to them (?), etc" and "we actively worship saints as gods" isn't very big?

It seems like a technicality, a semantic difference, to keep GodJesus and the rest of the Holy Trinity or whatever it is Catholics pray to separate from the pantheon of Saints in order to maintain a semblance of monotheism while still having that extended pantheon with "patron saints of pants shitting" and "patron saints of oatmeal-cooking" that you can call upon if you need help in one of those specific areas.

It just reminds me a lot of Hinduism, Ancient Greece and to a degree other mythologies (Slavic and Nordic) where there would be small gods responsible for specific things.

What you say isn't without some merit. The difference can easily seem like semantics. As @NotAKitty said, the technical concept is actually Intercession. You don't pray to a Saint to help you, you ask a Saint to pray for you to God, on your behalf, in the same you might ask a friend or whatever. The idea that their pious actions have seen them go to Heaven ahead of you, and they are part of the larger Catholic Community even in death through their faith and accomplishments. Basically, if you ever had someone ask you to pray for their grandmother or whatever, that is exactly the same thing.

"St.Anthony, patron of the lost, pray to God that I might find this object" etc.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

You don't pray to a Saint to help you, you ask a Saint to pray for you to God, on your behalf, in the same you might ask a friend or whatever. The idea that their pious actions have seen them go to Heaven ahead of you, and they are part of the larger Catholic Community even in death through their faith and accomplishments. Basically, if you ever had someone ask you to pray for their grandmother or whatever, that is exactly the same thing.

"St.Anthony, patron of the lost, pray to God that I might find this object" etc.

I hope you understand that this sounds (to a non-Catholic and all around EUPHORIC ATHEIST M'LADY) really dumb and, again, like a technicality to avoid the Saint being directly responsible for shit, veiling it in layers of ... holy bureaucracy, if you understand what I mean.

"It's not the saint themselves that helps you find your shit. You pray to them and then they pray to God for you because apparently that's more powerful than if you were to pray on your own."

Why the middleman?

It feels like a want to have a big pantheon of gods, but again, not being able to come out and say it, instead giving them essentially middle-man duty between humans and God.

Except you can still pray directly to God.

??

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

I hope you understand that this sounds (to a non-Catholic and all around EUPHORIC ATHEIST M'LADY) really dumb and, again, like a technicality to avoid the Saint being directly responsible for shit, veiling it in layers of ... holy bureaucracy, if you understand what I mean.

"It's not the saint themselves that helps you find your shit. You pray to them and then they pray to God for you because apparently that's more powerful than if you were to pray on your own."

Why the middleman?

It feels like a want to have a big pantheon of gods, but again, not being able to come out and say it, instead giving them essentially middle-man duty between humans and God.

Except you can still pray directly to God.

??

It began in the middle ages as common practice because Saints were holier than you, basically. You also do pray to God yourself, which I neglected to mention. You pray with the Chorus of Saints, if you're doing it "properly."

Again, I'm sure it does sound dumb and overly techinical. You're an atheist. If there was a religion that made sense to you, you would be in it.

Most Catholics do think the difference is significant in any case, which is all that matters. Outside opinions ideally should not affect Church Doctrine.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Again, I'm sure it does sound dumb and overly techinical. You're an atheist. If there was a religion that made sense to you, you would be in it.

Yeah, that's probably it.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

Yeah, that's probably it.

Which is totally reasonable btw. I meant no disrespect.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Which is totally reasonable btw. I meant no disrespect.

None taken, and same to you.

 

[Zorin (ASK ME ABOUT CHILD RAPE)]

What do you think of this unique religion? Good? Bad? do tell

I'm not an expert on Catholicism though I come from an Irish Catholic heritage.

One problem I have heard about the Church, especially from Protestant Christian critics is that the church has had a history of claiming the Church itself is the only way to salvation, as opposed to evangelicals who believe the 'philosophy' or universal spiritual truth is the way to salvation rather than the 'church' or 'congregation' itself.

As far as the sex scandals, I don't really pay that much attention to that because I believe it's been overblown in the media due to 'attacking religion' being somewhat trendy, that and I've heard that there are higher rates of sex abuse scandals in public schools, as well as other religious sects such as the "IFB" denomination (Independent fundamental baptist), which I've heard is very cult-like.

 

[OtterParty]

= literally me

 

[Erida]

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school so that's my only religious experience from 'the inside'. I found it all a bit weird from a young age and especially hated confession. It was sometimes with our main priest but often with the priests from Africa that I guess were on a priest holiday/exchange or something. They were hardcore.

One in particular scared the shit out of me. We started confessions from the age of seven so I was only eight or so when I was shut in a room with him. I was really shy but said hello and he immediately bellowed, "WHAT DO YOU SAY?" He kept repeating that over and over. I'd forgotten I'm meant to start with, "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned." He was not chilled about it. Then he had me list all my sins but I was a good 8 year old kid and all I could come up with was, "I took the tv remote from my sister." He wanted more so I made stuff up like 'being rude to friends', then felt I'd go to hell because I was lying in confession to a priest. He then made me say twenty Hail Marys to make up for my sins.

It doesn't sound like much but it was harrowing as a young kid. I also used to pray every night to God for a puppy to appear at the end of my bed in the morning but it never happened. I stopped going to church in my teens. One of the highlights (as a youngster who didn't understand mental illness yet) was one parishioner had schizophrenia and it was 50/50 as to whether he was on his meds or not. If he wasn't then he'd randomly stand up during mass shouting, "Fuck Jesus, fuck God, you're all cunts and we're all going to hell anyway."

I'm not keen on any religion and Catholicism absolutely has its issues. Like with everything, it often comes down to the person and some are lovely, some are arseholes. I'm sure it played a role in making me the deviant I am today.

Tl;dr Shit fucked me up

 

[Trilby]

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school so that's my only religious experience from 'the inside'. I found it all a bit weird from a young age and especially hated confession. It was sometimes with our main priest but often with the priests from Africa that I guess were on a priest holiday/exchange or something. They were hardcore.

One in particular scared the shit out of me. We started confessions from the age of seven so I was only eight or so when I was shut in a room with him. I was really shy but said hello and he immediately bellowed, "WHAT DO YOU SAY?" He kept repeating that over and over. I'd forgotten I'm meant to start with, "Forgive me Father, for I have sinned." He was not chilled about it. Then he had me list all my sins but I was a good 8 year old kid and all I could come up with was, "I took the tv remote from my sister." He wanted more so I made stuff up like 'being rude to friends', then felt I'd go to hell because I was lying in confession to a priest. He then made me say twenty Hail Marys to make up for my sins.

It doesn't sound like much but it was harrowing as a young kid. I also used to pray every night to God for a puppy to appear at the end of my bed in the morning but it never happened. I stopped going to church in my teens. One of the highlights (as a youngster who didn't understand mental illness yet) was one parishioner had schizophrenia and it was 50/50 as to whether he was on his meds or not. If he wasn't then he'd randomly stand up during mass shouting, "Fuck Jesus, fuck God, you're all cunts and we're all going to hell anyway."

I'm not keen on any religion and Catholicism absolutely has its issues. Like with everything, it often comes down to the person and some are lovely, some are arseholes. I'm sure it played a role in making me the deviant I am today.

Tl;dr Shit fucked me up

You're not the only one, I didn't go to a Catholic school, but had to take a certain evening class every Wednesday night at a nearby church that went through the same motions and everything. I don't think I had quite the same fear of confessions as you did, but I suppose I BS'd my way through 'em the same. It was more annoying when I turned 21 or so and had to go through some sort of Catechism thingy to finalize my role in the Church or whatever. Had to go to Sunday classes for that, the only highlight was watching an episode of "Insight" from the 70's that was very hokey (something about God as captain of a spaceship in a project of terraforming a planet with Adam and Eve as his assistants he beams on down there in the end)! Recently I came across a few booklets from that time, and without giving it a second thought, I ditched them into the recycle bin.

 

[El Porko Fako]

The Catholic Church makes beautiful churches and some really nice American colleges.

It has its flaws but I basically like it OK

I feel the same way. I read and witnessed some pretty heinous shit that Catholics have done, but not all them are like that and I feel contributed a lot to western societies. In addition to colleges and architecture, I add some of their choral music. Damn if that isn't some of the most beautiful music I've ever listened to.

 

[Trilby]

I feel the same way. I read and witnessed some pretty heinous shit that Catholics have done, but not all them are like that and I feel contributed a lot to western societies. In addition to colleges and architecture, I add some of their choral music. Damn if that isn't some of the most beautiful music I've ever listened to.

It's kind of a love/hate relationship that keeps them in good standing I'm sure.

 

[ICametoLurk]

>There are people who think Vatican 2 was good.

 

[AnOminous]

One of the highlights (as a youngster who didn't understand mental illness yet) was one parishioner had schizophrenia and it was 50/50 as to whether he was on his meds or not. If he wasn't then he'd randomly stand up during mass shouting, "Fuck Jesus, fuck God, you're all cunts and we're all going to hell anyway."

Any meds that would make you stop doing that are just wrong.

 

[Bombshell]

Oh boy... any chance you can be more specific than that?

Catholocism is undoubtly a historically very important institution.
In many ways it is what helped form and shape the modern western society tobecome what it is today.

There has been times in history where the catholic church WAS the true power in a number of countries, so much so that even the crown of those countries had to abide with what the local bishop demanded in terms of laws and punishments.

And that of course means that catholism at that time was more of a power structure than a devine religion, the religious parts was just the veil used for them to maintain power.
And as is with power, absolutely power corrupts absolutely.

Todays catholocism though is an entirely different beast as it's just not that important anymore.
It doesn't have the same kind of power and is more like its own little isolated group of people outside of regular society. What goes on among those people can be... highly questionable.
But it is not as important on a grand scale. They don't rule entire countries anymore.... Unlike Islam.

So yeah, specifics!
Are we talking about the history of the catholic church? are we talking about the mythologic tales they preach? are we talking about modern catholism?
Are we talking about modern people whom just happens to be catholics? there's a ton of aspects to this thing.

 

[Hat]

All I learned from Papist school is that basically no Catholic actually believes in the Bible—not even in the extra books they added in—and that churches are more special when they have magic bone fragments from saints in the altars. Also you can be a Universalist who provide sub-par medical care to Indians and still become a saint.

 

[AnOminous]

All I learned from Papist school is that basically no Catholic actually believes in the Bible—not even in the extra books they added in—and that churches are more special when they have magic bone fragments from saints in the altars. Also you can be a Universalist who provide sub-par medical care to Indians and still become a saint.

Fuck you! You're not supposed to say things I agree with!

 

[DatBepisTho]

No old man in a pointy hat and bathrobe tells me what to do.

Spoiler: The long of it

Don't like them when they're staunch church-dindu-nuffin-wrong, no sir.


Not fond of 'em because of their stances on birthcontrol and people who don't want children.
Or the historical demonization of cats that kept rats in check and didn't realize/admit they fucked up until like a century or more later. It's petty, I know.
More recently, and not as petty: sweeping sexual abuse under the rug, etc.

(Don't worry I feel the same way about staunch bible-thumping protestants too.)

 

[feedtheoctopus]

Christianity is a gutter religion that uses fear of hell to induce a pathetic, servile, slave morality in the populace that is exploited by the powerful.

Still better than Jainism though. Don't get me started on that bullshit.