Bojack Horseman - The best animated show on Netflix
- Iniciador del tema Johnny Bravo
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One Man Bland
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 15 de Oct, 2017
It's kind of ironic to me that Diane's made to be the character who calls Bojack out for claiming he's "the real victim" of all his transgressions, when the show itself treats a lot of Diane's actions as being exactly this. It's hard to say if that's an intentional parallel though.
- Registrado
- 7 de Oct, 2014
Diane's a weird character. On one hand, I like what she pushed Bojack to do in the finale ep. On the other hand, she's oozing hypocrisy. I can't say that I hate her because as preachy as she is, she fits in with the show's narrative or really shitty people doing shitty things and making excuses.
- Registrado
- 6 de Sep, 2018
I think it's very meta that I'm getting tired of Bojack's bullshit by now. He ended last season saying he owed PC at least working on Philbert. This season, he doesn't want to, and he gets pissy about it and wants to leave. As once per season custom dictates, the second PC leaves the scene, everything gets fucked up. And every season Bojack seems to be cleaning his act, then manages to end up in a worse place than he previously was.
He just doesn't seem able to learn anything ever. Even the shitty things he's done aren't really that shitty, and Hollywoo still loves him and will throw some work his way now and then. He could turn his life around any moment. He's not as far gone as Vance Wagonner, yet he feels much worse than Vance does about himself. Bojack's pretty low tier by Hollywoo-shitty standards. And yet he's in this middle ground of being a good enough person to realize he's shitty, but not being strong enough to make a change, or fucked up enough to jump off the deep end and decide he's gonna own it. The parallels they draw are pretty transparent: Wagonner sexted a twelve year old, Bojack almost had sex with barely legal Penny. Wagonner tried to punch a female cop while drunk and Bojack, while out of his mind on painkillers that he actually needed from a failed stunt, throttled Gina, who was playing a cop.
Diane's now relying on herself, actually went through with divorcing Peanutbutter and didn't just shack up and/or hook up with Bojack, which was definitely an option. From what I surmise, she's on her way to running her own "The Squawk" type show for GirlCroosh, but it's pretty clear she'll find it hollow and unfulfilling when she actually gets it. She's also shit-talking PB on her podcast, which is a very Bojack move. So the two depressing, determined to be miserable leads are basically still on the fast track to nowhere. Diane and Bojack are both still drowning with no clear direction to go in. Who knows, maybe next season Diane will actually find some fulfillment and leave Bojack to stew in his misery alone and finally go Secretariat. I'm kinda hoping for a happy ending, but it'd be pretty far fetched.
Now for the more positive people who actually have the strength to search for changes and so: It hasn't really been a great season for PC either. Her arc is pretty obvious, and by the end of it she's actually a mother of an adopted baby. During it, she recconected with Ralph, who points out the obvious and gets shot down with very little justification. I guess that's so she could be miserable in next season too, raising a newborn baby all alone, which I'm not thrilled about. That's good writing though. I wish these characters could do well, they just never do.
Peanutbutter might have been getting a hint of the ol' Bojack mentality, because early on he meets a girl that's absolutely perfect for him. She's a pug, fun, energetic, and as usual, nearly thirty years his junior. They even do long winded poor analogies together. She loves parties, social situations and surprises. Here, I expected PB to just be himself and cheerfully take to this new, thoroughly improved situation over being in a failing marriage with a miserable person, but he's doing a 180 nowadays. Instead, he admits to her face he's not over Diane, and sleeps with Diane twice over the course of the season. He's going to tell Pickles, but flakes on that and decides to propose instead. He's really good as Bojack's foil. All Bojack has to do to be happy is change. Here, PB was put into a situation where all he had to do was stay the same to be happy, but he chose to do some growing up instead, at the worst possible moment.
Todd's just basically relegated to comic relief once again. He builds a sex robot now. That sex robot becomes a CEO because everyone in LA is dumb, apparently. Neat. He drops his relationship with Yolanda over incompatibility without much ceremony and wants to get back together with Emily, who says she'd need to have sex for that. Anyway, he ends the season looking for a romantic asexual relationship on an app Emily made for him. You could basically cut the character from the show with very minor impact.
It's still a very well written show and I'll definitely watch the rest of the seasons. It's just a little sad to think that it's just a bleak, depressing downhill trip from here.
He just doesn't seem able to learn anything ever. Even the shitty things he's done aren't really that shitty, and Hollywoo still loves him and will throw some work his way now and then. He could turn his life around any moment. He's not as far gone as Vance Wagonner, yet he feels much worse than Vance does about himself. Bojack's pretty low tier by Hollywoo-shitty standards. And yet he's in this middle ground of being a good enough person to realize he's shitty, but not being strong enough to make a change, or fucked up enough to jump off the deep end and decide he's gonna own it. The parallels they draw are pretty transparent: Wagonner sexted a twelve year old, Bojack almost had sex with barely legal Penny. Wagonner tried to punch a female cop while drunk and Bojack, while out of his mind on painkillers that he actually needed from a failed stunt, throttled Gina, who was playing a cop.
Diane's now relying on herself, actually went through with divorcing Peanutbutter and didn't just shack up and/or hook up with Bojack, which was definitely an option. From what I surmise, she's on her way to running her own "The Squawk" type show for GirlCroosh, but it's pretty clear she'll find it hollow and unfulfilling when she actually gets it. She's also shit-talking PB on her podcast, which is a very Bojack move. So the two depressing, determined to be miserable leads are basically still on the fast track to nowhere. Diane and Bojack are both still drowning with no clear direction to go in. Who knows, maybe next season Diane will actually find some fulfillment and leave Bojack to stew in his misery alone and finally go Secretariat. I'm kinda hoping for a happy ending, but it'd be pretty far fetched.
Now for the more positive people who actually have the strength to search for changes and so: It hasn't really been a great season for PC either. Her arc is pretty obvious, and by the end of it she's actually a mother of an adopted baby. During it, she recconected with Ralph, who points out the obvious and gets shot down with very little justification. I guess that's so she could be miserable in next season too, raising a newborn baby all alone, which I'm not thrilled about. That's good writing though. I wish these characters could do well, they just never do.
Peanutbutter might have been getting a hint of the ol' Bojack mentality, because early on he meets a girl that's absolutely perfect for him. She's a pug, fun, energetic, and as usual, nearly thirty years his junior. They even do long winded poor analogies together. She loves parties, social situations and surprises. Here, I expected PB to just be himself and cheerfully take to this new, thoroughly improved situation over being in a failing marriage with a miserable person, but he's doing a 180 nowadays. Instead, he admits to her face he's not over Diane, and sleeps with Diane twice over the course of the season. He's going to tell Pickles, but flakes on that and decides to propose instead. He's really good as Bojack's foil. All Bojack has to do to be happy is change. Here, PB was put into a situation where all he had to do was stay the same to be happy, but he chose to do some growing up instead, at the worst possible moment.
Todd's just basically relegated to comic relief once again. He builds a sex robot now. That sex robot becomes a CEO because everyone in LA is dumb, apparently. Neat. He drops his relationship with Yolanda over incompatibility without much ceremony and wants to get back together with Emily, who says she'd need to have sex for that. Anyway, he ends the season looking for a romantic asexual relationship on an app Emily made for him. You could basically cut the character from the show with very minor impact.
It's still a very well written show and I'll definitely watch the rest of the seasons. It's just a little sad to think that it's just a bleak, depressing downhill trip from here.
TL;DR= Tremendously well written show that will definitely hold your interest, but it's just a misery sandwich with bleakness bread. It gets exhausting at times. Very meta, really.
- Registrado
- 1 de Mayo, 2018
She probably only helped bojack in the last episode so she can hold it over his head and use it as an excuse to not get called on because how dare you, i was the one that helped you
Also keep in mind shes the reason he gets addicted in the first place, had she not rewrote the scrip, talked bojackď out of doing his own stunt and more importantly, made the tv show about how mutch of shitty person bojack is and how dare he not forget the bad things he has ever done and dont pretend hes a saint
Fuck diane, shes easily the worst part of the show
One Man Bland
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 15 de Oct, 2017
While hypocritical characters are definitely are hard sell, I'm not sure that's what makes Diane feel so frustrating. After all, you got other characters who are also massive hypocrites (Bojack and arguably Princess Carolyn) but their arcs don't garner as much of a negative reaction.
I think what it really boils down to is the framing of those arcs. When characters like Bojack or Princess Carolyn or Mr. Peanut Butter make the wrong decision or fuck up, the consequences that follow feel like their getting their comeuppance at the very least. And we also get the added benefit that they tend to have tangible goals/desires (Bojack wants to be and feel like a good person/hero, Princess Carolyn wants to find the balance between work and family, Mr. Peanut Butter wants companionship, etc.) as well as the turn of events that lead them to making the decisions that they do, so you're able to root for them when they start to put in the work to achieve them and sad when they inevitably fall off the wagon and back into their toxic cycles.
Diane however doesn't really have those things. Her whole shtick is that she argues for the right things but for mostly self-righteous or self-serving reasons, and that she has no idea what she wants so nothing really makes her happy. So we're kinda left with a character who not only comes off as hypocritical, but her hypocrisy doesn't really serve much of a purpose since so much of her story is about what she doesn't want. Though to be completely fair to Diane, I wouldn't say she's completely devoid of the above traits - earlier seasons did well when showing her trying to force herself to be a compatible, "fun" partner for Mr. PB when it was painfully obvious that they just didn't have a lot in common, or like the abortion episode where they acknowledge she's being too uptight on the matter - but I think that's where some of the other framing issues set in. As I mentioned earlier, I think there's an issue where other characters will do a terrible thing and face consequences for it and the show's intended takeaway seems to be "that sucks but you really only have yourself to blame" while similar things will happen to Diane but the show's takeaway for those is basically just "oh no poor Diane!"
It's just not a very satisfying arc for any character, so when there's a Diane episode like the gun control one or her whole "doesn't want to be married to Mr. Peanut Butter but also doesn't want him dating someone else" conflict is brought up, instead of having that "disappointed but unsurprising" reaction when things don't work out for other characters, with Diane I just kind of a "fucking hell Diane, I don't know what to tell you."
- Registrado
- 6 de Sep, 2018
Warning: Wall of text.
I think Diane and Bojack both are just determined to be miserable. The differences are how they're perceived by others: While Bojack is mostly seen as a Hollywoo success story, if a little washed out, he can still get mainstream work, appearances on shows, and generates positive buzz for the projects he works in more often than not. Bojack is an attention whore and superficially charming, so Hollywoo likes him at best and tolerates him at worst. His goals are pretty concrete, but every time he achieves something at least close, he immediately feels like it was cheap. He got the Secretariat role and thought he wasn't good enough for it. He's had a bunch of romantic relationships, and most of them actually liked him for him. So Bojack is a man chasing love, as has been said on the thread. But love, friendship or even his dream project becoming a reality will never be good enough.
Diane basically struck gold really early on by landing Peanutbutter. But of course, she wouldn't be fulfilled. Due to her terrible family life, another parallel with Bojack, what she seeks is to be self-reliant. This season did a fairly good job of portraying that. Again, she had places to crash, Bojack himself would have received her with open arms, but she chose to stay in her crappy apartment because that's what she's convinced herself she's doing now. All of her goals have been nebulous and the biggest in scope out of all the main cast. She wanted to go to Cordovia, presumably to write something big and meaningful about St. Claire. That got scrapped when it turned out to be a publicity stunt. She tried to take down Hank Hippo. That didn't come to anything. She's throwing down with the woke crowd. Bojack one-upped her in one day before getting tore down, and presumably had more impact in the brief time spent as a male feminist than she ever did. All fairly big targets that would, presumably, lead to a big change. But they won't. And even if they did, Diane will flat out write scripts and not be annoyed about being given no credit, which is a REALLY stupid thing to do as a writer, so she could just be screwed over. Since she holds everyone to an impossible standard, including herself, as Stefani told her, she just expects people to do the right thing and ends up being dissapointed. So Diane is chasing something unclear, and everything she actually achieves feels empty. To make matters worse, she's stuck writing listicles for a living. Even those she tries to make meaningful and deep. And fails. Miserably. Her Vietnam listicle constantly went back on itself and reached no meaningful conclusions. She probably realizes this herself: Writing something truly deep and inspiring is borderline impossible, unless you're the type of vapid dumbass that retweets Billionaire Mindset tweets.
Now the relationship between them has already been stated to be awful for both of them, in Season 3, I believe. Diane could just exploit Bojack for money and success, but those seem pretty low on her priority list. Her book about Bojack was well received, and the role she wrote for him as Philbert got critical praise too. The irony here, of course, is that success wouldn't make Diane happy, but being low on the pecking order in Hollywoo does make her sad. They could have a fulfilling business relationship, but they're both too screwed up for that. Bojack desperately wants Diane to love him, and it's not even clear if it's motherly love, romantic love, or a mix of both. It's been implied a couple times that they are physically attracted to each other at least, but Bojack really doesn't want to make a move on Diane. In a way, they're in all the worst parts of a relationship. Diane getting mad about Bojack not telling him what naughty thing he did in New Mexico certainly was pretty out of bounds for a friendship. She almost came off like a scorned lover. I don't even know if that was the intention.
In the end, I think Bojack will just end up as another of Diane's big scope goals. Fix Bojack Horseman. Turn him into a better person. And take no credit for it. There's a lot of ways it could turn out. They could just make a project they could both be proud of, maybe with the indie darling woman who directed Secretariat. They could eventually hook up and find some cynical mutual confort. But they probably won't. I fear one day, the dynamic intro will just not have Peanutbutter or Diane staring into the pool. And that's the day Bojack finally drowns. I guess we're just along for the ride to see how these very dysfunctional people fuck up the situation to beyond repair status.
I think Diane and Bojack both are just determined to be miserable. The differences are how they're perceived by others: While Bojack is mostly seen as a Hollywoo success story, if a little washed out, he can still get mainstream work, appearances on shows, and generates positive buzz for the projects he works in more often than not. Bojack is an attention whore and superficially charming, so Hollywoo likes him at best and tolerates him at worst. His goals are pretty concrete, but every time he achieves something at least close, he immediately feels like it was cheap. He got the Secretariat role and thought he wasn't good enough for it. He's had a bunch of romantic relationships, and most of them actually liked him for him. So Bojack is a man chasing love, as has been said on the thread. But love, friendship or even his dream project becoming a reality will never be good enough.
Diane basically struck gold really early on by landing Peanutbutter. But of course, she wouldn't be fulfilled. Due to her terrible family life, another parallel with Bojack, what she seeks is to be self-reliant. This season did a fairly good job of portraying that. Again, she had places to crash, Bojack himself would have received her with open arms, but she chose to stay in her crappy apartment because that's what she's convinced herself she's doing now. All of her goals have been nebulous and the biggest in scope out of all the main cast. She wanted to go to Cordovia, presumably to write something big and meaningful about St. Claire. That got scrapped when it turned out to be a publicity stunt. She tried to take down Hank Hippo. That didn't come to anything. She's throwing down with the woke crowd. Bojack one-upped her in one day before getting tore down, and presumably had more impact in the brief time spent as a male feminist than she ever did. All fairly big targets that would, presumably, lead to a big change. But they won't. And even if they did, Diane will flat out write scripts and not be annoyed about being given no credit, which is a REALLY stupid thing to do as a writer, so she could just be screwed over. Since she holds everyone to an impossible standard, including herself, as Stefani told her, she just expects people to do the right thing and ends up being dissapointed. So Diane is chasing something unclear, and everything she actually achieves feels empty. To make matters worse, she's stuck writing listicles for a living. Even those she tries to make meaningful and deep. And fails. Miserably. Her Vietnam listicle constantly went back on itself and reached no meaningful conclusions. She probably realizes this herself: Writing something truly deep and inspiring is borderline impossible, unless you're the type of vapid dumbass that retweets Billionaire Mindset tweets.
Now the relationship between them has already been stated to be awful for both of them, in Season 3, I believe. Diane could just exploit Bojack for money and success, but those seem pretty low on her priority list. Her book about Bojack was well received, and the role she wrote for him as Philbert got critical praise too. The irony here, of course, is that success wouldn't make Diane happy, but being low on the pecking order in Hollywoo does make her sad. They could have a fulfilling business relationship, but they're both too screwed up for that. Bojack desperately wants Diane to love him, and it's not even clear if it's motherly love, romantic love, or a mix of both. It's been implied a couple times that they are physically attracted to each other at least, but Bojack really doesn't want to make a move on Diane. In a way, they're in all the worst parts of a relationship. Diane getting mad about Bojack not telling him what naughty thing he did in New Mexico certainly was pretty out of bounds for a friendship. She almost came off like a scorned lover. I don't even know if that was the intention.
In the end, I think Bojack will just end up as another of Diane's big scope goals. Fix Bojack Horseman. Turn him into a better person. And take no credit for it. There's a lot of ways it could turn out. They could just make a project they could both be proud of, maybe with the indie darling woman who directed Secretariat. They could eventually hook up and find some cynical mutual confort. But they probably won't. I fear one day, the dynamic intro will just not have Peanutbutter or Diane staring into the pool. And that's the day Bojack finally drowns. I guess we're just along for the ride to see how these very dysfunctional people fuck up the situation to beyond repair status.
- Registrado
- 28 de Sep, 2013
I'm in the middle of binging it because my cousin recommended it to me, about to start season 2. I like it.
- Registrado
- 19 de Feb, 2018
Ironically enough, the situation that ignited that conversation was an instance where BoJack was victimized.
R
RG 448
Guest
kiwifarms.net
Blasted through the new season in one day, fuckin loved it.
- Registrado
- 15 de Jul, 2017
I hope Ralph (The mouse character who dated Princess Carolynn) comes back in season 6. He didn't do anything wrong and still actively expressed a longing to start a family with Carolynn even after what she did.
- Registrado
- 25 de Jun, 2013
Came into the new season with middling expectations and ended up loving it.
This is by far one of my favorite animated shows.
The Free Churro episode alone was just brilliant.
I'm happy that she finally got a kid. Not sure how well it's going to work out, but I've really grown fond of her character and would really like to her to be happy.
This is by far one of my favorite animated shows.
The Free Churro episode alone was just brilliant.
I'm happy that she finally got a kid. Not sure how well it's going to work out, but I've really grown fond of her character and would really like to her to be happy.
Última edición:
- Registrado
- 14 de Dic, 2017
Finished the 5 Season, and it was really fucking good. Not as great as Season 3, but still brilliant.
Far well, Henry Fondle. May flights of sex crazed angels wing thee to thy rest...
Far well, Henry Fondle. May flights of sex crazed angels wing thee to thy rest...
- Registrado
- 27 de Oct, 2017
RumblyTumbly
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 13 de Abr, 2018
How weird is it that this show got a "Series Premiere" on Comedy Central last night and most of us that love it are through 5 seasons of it already?
Oh well, the show is fantastic. Its funny when it needs to be, and good God almighty, when it gets real, it gets fucking real.
People told me how dark Rick and Morty was, but its got nothing on Bojack in that regard.
Oh well, the show is fantastic. Its funny when it needs to be, and good God almighty, when it gets real, it gets fucking real.
People told me how dark Rick and Morty was, but its got nothing on Bojack in that regard.
- Registrado
- 28 de Feb, 2015
it did? oh yeah, i forgot it was gonna do that
- Registrado
- 28 de Sep, 2013
I'm all caught up, really good show.
- Registrado
- 9 de Sep, 2013
I'm hoping Diane will finally get what's coming to her next season. Inviting Mr. PB into her apartment when she knows that 1. he's dating someone new and 2. in his heart he's still crazy about her is just scummy. Obviously Mr. PB is to blame for giving into temptation, but god damnit Diane, do you even look at yourself?
- Registrado
- 14 de Dic, 2017
Well, if you recall, she was referred to as 'Princess Diana' during that wacky recollection episode, and even appeared dressed as her. In the last scene of the last episode of this season, we see her driving into a tunnel, just like the late Lady D herself, did.
I'm not saying that Diane's doomed, but I do have to wonder if that all just happened to be a coincidence.
