Better Call Saul

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soy woah jaque dijo:
I feel like throughout the thread people have been slowly going down the slope of "X was good, X was okay but it had some issues, X was never good and it sucked actually"
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This is a natural progression for lots of media. People love it at first when it is new and they have a surface level understanding. Then they watch it over and over, and start to take mental notes on specific details, and the flaws becomes apparent that no one caught the first time. Or you have a show where you watch it a second time, and there's too much depth to keep track of, and you realize the show was far more complicated than your initial impression when you were just watching it for the basic plot.
 
I wanted more funny hijinks from Jimmy and got Season 6 instead.

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TheHarbinger dijo:
This is a natural progression for lots of media. People love it at first when it is new and they have a surface level understanding. Then they watch it over and over, and start to take mental notes on specific details, and the flaws becomes apparent that no one caught the first time. Or you have a show where you watch it a second time, and there's too much depth to keep track of, and you realize the show was far more complicated than your initial impression when you were just watching it for the basic plot.
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Or you never noticed something until someone pointed it out, and now you can't ignore it and it sours your experience.

I didn't mind Skyler the first time around, but then later people pointed out what a nag she was and how useless Junior was as a character. Now I fast forward through the family scenes because they just seem to have no reason to exist for me. I think that's why I liked BCS better, the characters were all part of the plot and Jimmy wasn't trying to hide from Kim.
 
We needed more Lalo and less cartel dogshit featuring cock lover and elephant man, with a special cameo from vaas from the far cry 3 series.
 
So I'm rewatching BCS and I think it's because I was watching it as it came out over several years, but I forgot what a prick Howard could be. Him sending Kim to the cornfield the second time, and being a bastard to her while she's meeting with Mesa Verde, he comes across way worse than I remembered him being. Chuck is also worse than I remember. Yeah, Jimmy had trouble with the straight and narrow, but smugly mocking your brother with fake concern, insisting that this is the right thing for everyone, while he's waiting to be arrested? No wonder his parents loved Jimmy more.

One thing I missed the first time around is that they did give an explanation for the origin of Chuck's condition: His divorce. During Jimmy's bar hearing, he brings up the fact that Chuck's allergy to electricity started two years prior, which is also when Chuck and Rebecca divorced. So, guess I was wrong about it being Jimmy becoming a lawyer.
 
Arthur Morgan dijo:
One thing I missed the first time around is that they did give an explanation for the origin of Chuck's condition: His divorce. During Jimmy's bar hearing, he brings up the fact that Chuck's allergy to electricity started two years prior, which is also when Chuck and Rebecca divorced. So, guess I was wrong about it being Jimmy becoming a lawyer.
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Chuck's "condition" was before the divorce and canonically we see it first appear right after they had dinner with Jimmy. Specifically after Jimmy effortlessly charmed her and Chuck couldn't get her to utter a single laugh at his "jokes".

Chuck was terrified of history repeating with his wife favoring Jimmy because of his raw charisma and quick wit over himself like what happened with their parents. So he subconsciously created his allergy to electricity as a way to maintain control of himself, his wife and Jimmy. Naturally, this incredibly harmful coping mechanism lost him his wife, Jimmy and his life.
 
Chilson dijo:
Chuck's "condition" was before the divorce and canonically we see it first appear right after they had dinner with Jimmy. Specifically after Jimmy effortlessly charmed her and Chuck couldn't get her to utter a single laugh at his "jokes".
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Chuck's hatred of Jimmy was seen in the dinner meeting where he cracks lawyer jokes. His allergy to electricity didn't manifest until the divorce. When his wife Rebecca leaves him he shuts off the power to his house and lives alone in the dark. She visits Chuck years after the divorce and he and Jimmy come up with a lie that the power is out in the house due to a wiring issue to cover up for Chuck's mental illness.

Chuck's dinner with Rebecca and Jimmy is in 1992 after Jimmy is arrested for shitting into a sunroof. Rebecca divorces Chuck in early 2001. Then in late 2001 Chuck takes a leave of absence from HHM. He goes home. And shuts down power to his house. It's impossible to keep track of the timeline on this show because the actors all look in their 50s or 60s no matter what decade they are supposed to be in at any scene.

The Breaking Bad timeline is also impossible to follow (even the writers had no idea).
Chilson dijo:
Chuck was terrified of history repeating with his wife favoring Jimmy because of his raw charisma and quick wit over himself like what happened with their parents.
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That's not the issue. He was never afraid of Rebecca leaving him for Jimmy. He was angry that Jimmy could make strangers laugh and was easy to befriend. Whereas Chuck is a loser snob who has zero sense of decorum or class. You see when Chuck asks Kim for coffee he can't even do that without sounding like a complete elitist. He also is a terrible trial lawyer because he acts out in court. But just using the law on paper he's a genius.
Chilson dijo:
So he subconsciously created his allergy to electricity as a way to maintain control of himself, his wife and Jimmy. Naturally, this incredibly harmful coping mechanism lost him his wife, Jimmy and his life.
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His wife was gone before the electricity allergy. Her leaving causes Chuck to lose his mind. When she returns for Jimmy's trial against Chuck the electricity is shown prominently returning in several scenes. And Chuck restores power to his home even. But when she leaves again he goes berserk and finally kills himself in a blaze of glory.
 
TheHarbinger dijo:
That's not the issue. He was never afraid of Rebecca leaving him for Jimmy. He was angry that Jimmy could make strangers laugh and was easy to befriend. Whereas Chuck is a loser snob who has zero sense of decorum or class. You see when Chuck asks Kim for coffee he can't even do that without sounding like a complete elitist. He also is a terrible trial lawyer because he acts out in court. But just using the law on paper he's a genius.
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It's also that you had that scene before the dinner where Chuck is apologetic about doing this to Rebecca and they come up with a tell so Chuck can kill the night. Not only does Rebecca never use it, when Chuck does she ignores him and continues being charmed by Jimmy. Chuck only brought Jimmy down to Albuquerque for their mother's sake, not because he actually wanted to give Jimmy a chance... and here Jimmy was not being the delinquent shit heel Chuck described him as.

As for him as a trial lawyer, I think that's just because we only ever saw Chuck after his mental breakdown. Howard and Hamlin senior never would have tolerated Chuck as a partner if he couldn't control himself in court. But yeah, the hearing with Mesa Verde showed just how egotistical he was.
 
Arthur Morgan dijo:
Chuck only brought Jimmy down to Albuquerque for their mother's sake, not because he actually wanted to give Jimmy a chance... and here Jimmy was not being the delinquent shit heel Chuck described him as.
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Peter Gould said in interviews that Chuck also brings him to ABQ to prevent him from tarnishing their name any further (imagine being a high profile lawyer with a sex offender brother). And also to keep him as a permanent member of the underclass by giving him a job in the mailroom (mailroom jobs are a common plot device on television shows to punish a character). He never imagines that Slippin' Jimmy will slip his way into a law degree.
Arthur Morgan dijo:
As for him as a trial lawyer, I think that's just because we only ever saw Chuck after his mental breakdown. Howard and Hamlin senior never would have tolerated Chuck as a partner if he couldn't control himself in court. But yeah, the hearing with Mesa Verde showed just how egotistical he was.
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We saw Chuck as a piece of shit before the mental breakdown. Him lying to his brother about their mother's death. He sabotages Jimmy's law career behind his back at first. These happen before his divorce. It's also implied he cons someone out of their inheritance using a legal loophole. The opposite of Jimmy writing legitimate wills for the elderly. He was always a selfish mess but the divorce made him have his thoughts burst out loud. And probably also being isolated for several years in your home with no human interaction would cause someone to lose their courtroom decorum.
 
TheHarbinger dijo:
It's also implied he cons someone out of their inheritance using a legal loophole.
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So I just watched that episode, what happened was a man died and his shares in a company were deemed worthless, but it was discovered that the people behind the company had started a new business virtually identical using money from the first company, so he managed to convince the judge that this meant the shares were still good for the new company. Watching Kim get so wet while explaining this leads Jimmy to the path to lawyerdom.
 
TheHarbinger dijo:
We saw Chuck as a piece of shit before the mental breakdown. Him lying to his brother about their mother's death. He sabotages Jimmy's law career behind his back at first. These happen before his divorce. It's also implied he cons someone out of their inheritance using a legal loophole. The opposite of Jimmy writing legitimate wills for the elderly. He was always a selfish mess but the divorce made him have his thoughts burst out loud. And probably also being isolated for several years in your home with no human interaction would cause someone to lose their courtroom decorum.
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The thing I liked about Chuck is that the creators perfectly captured a guy who was both right and wrong at the same time. Chuck probably wasn't incorrect that if Jimmy was given a chance as a lawyer that he would fall back into his old ways and abuse his power. However, by not giving Jimmy the chance to change and stabbing him in the back Chuck only caused Jimmy to go down a far worse path.

On top of that, Chuck despite talking about how sacred the law is would only reveal that he himself was a deeply corrupt narcissist who only cared about himself and making sure those around him like Jimmy knew they were beneath him. He was the exact abuser that shouldn't have been allowed to be in the position of a lawyer.
 
Arthur Morgan dijo:
Or you never noticed something until someone pointed it out, and now you can't ignore it and it sours your experience.

I didn't mind Skyler the first time around, but then later people pointed out what a nag she was and how useless Junior was as a character. Now I fast forward through the family scenes because they just seem to have no reason to exist for me. I think that's why I liked BCS better, the characters were all part of the plot and Jimmy wasn't trying to hide from Kim.
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He doesn't like to be called Junior! He likes to be called Phlegm. Or whatever.
 
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