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- 4 de Feb, 2015
Exactly
Autistic Culture Movement / Neurodiversity
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- Registrado
- 21 de Mayo, 2015
- Registrado
- 8 de Jul, 2015
You know what, I figured it out. The only people who don't want these disorders to be viewed as disorders are kids on Tumblr who want to pull a Web MD PhD and diagnose themselves with everything and the kitchen sink. They want to carry the oppression label of mental illness but don't want to actually accept that mental illness comed with a lot of pain and suffering. They want to be oppressed the easy way.
I don't think this is the full backing behind the neurodiversity movement but I think it's disturbing how many self dxers are involved.
This whole thing reminds me of that shitty transabled movement or whatever. "We have serious problems but we're really totally normal, and we should just be allowed to do what we want, for reals guize! [Insert dis order here] is just a sociAL construct!!"
- Registrado
- 28 de Nov, 2014
Smallpox is literally better than having to put up with autistic people. [/sarcasm]
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- Registrado
- 3 de Jun, 2014
Mostly it seems these disability movements don't want to have to improve themselves or change anything, because they want everyone else to change for them. They want to be special and treated differently, but not have any of the disadvantages that come with the disorder. They essentially want everyone to cater to their needs, no matter how eccentric or obtrusive those needs are.
Do you know who are the only people on this earth that get all of their eccentric needs catered to? Rich people.
Everyone else just has to deal.
- Registrado
- 3 de Jun, 2015
'Pologies for adding another "I AM OFFENSIVE AND I FIND THIS AUTISTIC" to the pile, but I figure I could add an inside perspective to all of this. Hopefully I've exerted correct judgement and avoided making myself haraam.
The whole "oppose the cure, they're trying to kill us all!" view spearheading the movement is obvious sensationalist idiocy, but it has its roots in a long-standing problem many autistic people have with the original movement. Back when autism was just starting to become recognized, it would have been a major long shot for someone who actually had it to be able to articulate their problems and advocate for themselves. Therefore, the first activist groups were populated with the next best thing - people who have observed autism in action for a significant period of time, which largely translates to parents with autistic children. A good stopgap, much better than nothing, and it ushered a lot of information about the syndrome into the public eye.
However, times be a-changing. These days, autistic people who are actually well-informed about their condition and the politics surrounding it are much more common, to the point of being a fairly vocal minority. This is something of a problem for these old-school activists, for which Autism Speaks was founded, because they are so used to the idea that they are the real ears and voices of the autistic people that cannot speak for themselves. They have been the center of attention for so long that you can see them emphasizing the difficulty of being a parent of an autistic child (which, granted, is a challenge in and of itself) over the plight of someone who will be suffering from autism firsthand for their entire life. Many even seem to treat autism as if it robs people of their humanity, in spite of the fact that most autistics are well within a normal range of cognitive ability.
Simply put, when you see stuff like this and this, it's kind of hard to feel like you're really accepted and respected by the people who are supposedly fighting for you.
So there is where the neurodiversity movement was born, but why did it all fall apart? The answer is that it, ironically, succumbed to much of the same problems as the very movement it was created to oppose. Autistic people are, by the very definition, socially impaired, and almost always find it directly at odds with their impairment to create messages that are accessible to a wide audience. It would be an extraordinarily difficult feat to create an organization of autistic people that could rise to prominence without losing its integrity. So lose integrity it did! For years now, long before Tumblr sank its filthy talons in, self-diagnosed autistics and outright liars have been the ones to reign over the neurodiversity movement, as a cheap and manipulative way to score social justice brownie points. People who are not autistic have a great advantage, because inexperienced autistics are quite easy to manipulate, and even the wiser ones tend to experience a lot of STRESS when they're made to feel like their social skills are too inadequate to correctly express what they are feeling. A little bit of exploitation goes a long way.
I'll leave it off there, since the full story runs into fairly personal territory. But the point is - the neurodiversity movement is going absolutely nowhere. Even if you feel sympathetic to the cause of autism rights, you shouldn't support it, since it's by and large a bunch of autistic people flailing about coupled with idiots who are roleplaying a developmental disorder. You cannot trust these people with the future of the movement any more than you can trust the guys who're calling for autistic people to get cancer.
If anyone wants to sift through the abyss on their own, Wrong Planet has quite a lot of talk about neurodiversity and autists generally being autists. They're not above accepting sponsorship from Autism Speaks, though. Tumblr's #actuallyautistic tag encompasses a subgroup of people who pretend to have autism and espouse most of the same viewpoints.
The whole "oppose the cure, they're trying to kill us all!" view spearheading the movement is obvious sensationalist idiocy, but it has its roots in a long-standing problem many autistic people have with the original movement. Back when autism was just starting to become recognized, it would have been a major long shot for someone who actually had it to be able to articulate their problems and advocate for themselves. Therefore, the first activist groups were populated with the next best thing - people who have observed autism in action for a significant period of time, which largely translates to parents with autistic children. A good stopgap, much better than nothing, and it ushered a lot of information about the syndrome into the public eye.
However, times be a-changing. These days, autistic people who are actually well-informed about their condition and the politics surrounding it are much more common, to the point of being a fairly vocal minority. This is something of a problem for these old-school activists, for which Autism Speaks was founded, because they are so used to the idea that they are the real ears and voices of the autistic people that cannot speak for themselves. They have been the center of attention for so long that you can see them emphasizing the difficulty of being a parent of an autistic child (which, granted, is a challenge in and of itself) over the plight of someone who will be suffering from autism firsthand for their entire life. Many even seem to treat autism as if it robs people of their humanity, in spite of the fact that most autistics are well within a normal range of cognitive ability.
Simply put, when you see stuff like this and this, it's kind of hard to feel like you're really accepted and respected by the people who are supposedly fighting for you.
So there is where the neurodiversity movement was born, but why did it all fall apart? The answer is that it, ironically, succumbed to much of the same problems as the very movement it was created to oppose. Autistic people are, by the very definition, socially impaired, and almost always find it directly at odds with their impairment to create messages that are accessible to a wide audience. It would be an extraordinarily difficult feat to create an organization of autistic people that could rise to prominence without losing its integrity. So lose integrity it did! For years now, long before Tumblr sank its filthy talons in, self-diagnosed autistics and outright liars have been the ones to reign over the neurodiversity movement, as a cheap and manipulative way to score social justice brownie points. People who are not autistic have a great advantage, because inexperienced autistics are quite easy to manipulate, and even the wiser ones tend to experience a lot of STRESS when they're made to feel like their social skills are too inadequate to correctly express what they are feeling. A little bit of exploitation goes a long way.
I'll leave it off there, since the full story runs into fairly personal territory. But the point is - the neurodiversity movement is going absolutely nowhere. Even if you feel sympathetic to the cause of autism rights, you shouldn't support it, since it's by and large a bunch of autistic people flailing about coupled with idiots who are roleplaying a developmental disorder. You cannot trust these people with the future of the movement any more than you can trust the guys who're calling for autistic people to get cancer.
If anyone wants to sift through the abyss on their own, Wrong Planet has quite a lot of talk about neurodiversity and autists generally being autists. They're not above accepting sponsorship from Autism Speaks, though. Tumblr's #actuallyautistic tag encompasses a subgroup of people who pretend to have autism and espouse most of the same viewpoints.
J
JU 199
Guest
kiwifarms.net
This thread is the most effective honeypot I've seen on this forum.
10/10 would observe again.
10/10 would observe again.
Última edición por un moderador:
- Registrado
- 30 de Nov, 2013
if i had my hand on a button that would erase autism from the universe i would giggle and flap my arms for hours
- Registrado
- 8 de Jul, 2015
This makes me so annoyed; I do quite a bit of activism work for the blind and out of all the disability groups I've found, those who aren't linked with some organization like the NFB just want access to the tools they need to be able to do what everyone else does.
Like, it's one thing to provide options for people, but these people don't want that. I said this earlier elsewhere but it's kind of like this - most people with disabilities, for example the blind, just want reasonable accommodations. So, in their case, in a class, they could be provided with a braille display to write down notes and retrieve them. Disability "activism" movements though act more like the blind kid deserves a higher grade simply on the merit that he's blind, which is dumb, because the blind kid could have probably figured it out without needing such a handicap if he was provided with the necessary tools.
In fact this is ultimately the reason why claiming it's not a disorder is so detrimental - you're cutting off those tools for the autistic people who are raised to play by the rules and learn that yes, life is a little more difficult for them but they have ways to work around it.
This isn't equality, it's just ass patting. These people should be focusing on how to help autistic people become independent adults rather than patting their asses and basically making them even more withdrawn from society than their enabler parents have already done.
EDIT: This reminds me of this autistic faggot who would talk down to one of my blind friends for promoting the idea that disabled people should be given accessibility so that the gap between the disabled and the able bodied shrinks. He kept talking about how "we should be treated differently" and he pissed off his family so much that the dude's wife wants nothing to do with him. Like, I'm sorry; a mildly autistic person vs. someone in the final stages of glaucoma aren't even comparable, get your ignorant soapboxing ass out of here. I have no idea why my friend keeps interacting with him, we both agree he's a trainwreck. I guess he's too much of a nice guy.
- Registrado
- 3 de Ago, 2014
I think that if someone does make a cure for autism, it should only be given to autistic people whose disorder has kept them from living a decent life. Many people with autism can live pretty normal lives, so it would be pointless to cure them.
- Registrado
- 10 de Abr, 2013
Nobody that likes trains like autists do deserve acceptance.
- Registrado
- 8 de Jul, 2015
I think honestly this is why mild auties are sperging out so much over this. Then again, I think that doctors wouldn't actually "cure" those who are able to deal with it. There's no point and it'd probably be quite expensive.
I mean I thought about it and honestly the only reason why I don't agree with promoting the whole "Aborting autistic babies" thing is that there's no real way to know how autistic that kid could be. A lot of autistic people manage to live pretty normal lives and the disorder has a few "advantages" such as being able to focus on one subject. Seriously, if most autistic people shifted their obsession from "stupid pokemon/sonic crossovers" to something useful like accounting, computer science or something, they could really thrive.
I mean, "advantages" is a weird word to use. Going back to blind people, you could argue that the totally blind have an advantage over sighted people in a dark room, but that doesn't really mean they don't have difficulty with their lives.
I just find it astounding that providing accessiblity for autistic people such as through those talking iPad apps or whatever seems to be a hugely rejected solution but just acting like EVERYTHING IS FINE DON'T HURT THEIR FEELS is considered a more ethical response by these people. Absolutely disturbing, I guess it's okay to leave people mentally crippled because their life is a little harder than everyone else's.
J
JU 199
Guest
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 3 de Jun, 2015
- Registrado
- 8 de Jul, 2015
Well lets be honest, it's because I'm a lolcow myself, hence "lolcow double agent"
In all truth though I do a lot of work with blind people, they're a huge part of my life; it's also because the blind community may be one of the few untouched havens that, while full of weird ass people, at least doesn't have retards going around saying "THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH US OUR FEELINGS ARE NUMBER ONE" so the way that they conduct *most* of their activism is a good example of an activism model that works.
It's good to compare it with stupid shit like this and illustrate why it doesn't work. Besides, I'm knowledgeable on the subject, may as well use examples I can back up.
Eh, to go into more detail because I don't think this post explains itself very well... because autism is a relatively new disability, its activism hasn't had the hundreds of years of development of other, more well known disabilities. Blind people have been recognized pretty much as far as people go back, so there's a lot of history involved with them. And in general the community knows better than to pull stupid shit like this. There are other disabilities like this as well but since I pretty much have my life surrounding this culture it's what I know best, as opposed to say someone who lost a leg or has cancer or something.
It's also a good example because they face a lot of the same issues that autistic people do, due to the nature of their disability, but because they don't act completely fucktarded about it, people tend to at least try to give them support. The biggest problem that they face is trying to communicate their needs to people who can't really personally understand it.
This is the exact opposite problem the autism community has which is a bunch of flaming idiots who got extremely butthurt that the world isn't given to them on a silver platter and they expect the world to change for them - and not in a reasonable way such as giving them tools to help them communicate - they want the world to just pamper them up because their lives are soooo hard. Of course, blindness is also a good example because the life of a blind person is usually more challenging than that of an autistic person, and they don't usually act like whiny little bitches. (Usually)
I've dealt with both since I wanted to get involved and help people out, and after like 5 months I retreated the fuck away from autism activism because quite honestly it's a basket case at this point. I encourage autistic people to self advocate because it's honestly that bad.
Neurodiversity is just one of the sprinkles on the huge shit cake that is Autism Activism.
Última edición:
- Registrado
- 31 de Jul, 2014
What really annoys me, is that people treat words "mental illness", "mental disorder" and such, as some kind of terrible stigma. It's not. It is just a satement, that something in the person's psyche deviates from normal status. Obviously, I don't see that as a ground for prejudice against those people, but fuck me if autism isn't a deviation from norm. It is a pathology, that affects your mental status. I can totally understand that autistic people want to be normal, as everyone do, but they are approaching the problem from a different side.
I guess in 1990 WHO gave precendece for that, by removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders, but I still feel it isn't the right way to do that. Homosexuality is a deviation from "norm", that significantly lowers one's reproduction chances. Is it wrong? Not. Is it normal from a biological point of view? No, it isn't. Does it require a treatment? No.
Simillar, autism isn't wrong, it doesn't require a cure (because there isn't one), but it isn't normal.
tl;dr mental disorder isn't something inherently bad
I guess in 1990 WHO gave precendece for that, by removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders, but I still feel it isn't the right way to do that. Homosexuality is a deviation from "norm", that significantly lowers one's reproduction chances. Is it wrong? Not. Is it normal from a biological point of view? No, it isn't. Does it require a treatment? No.
Simillar, autism isn't wrong, it doesn't require a cure (because there isn't one), but it isn't normal.
tl;dr mental disorder isn't something inherently bad