Are Russians white?

[Overly Serious]

Russians are routinely allowed to be the Bad Guys in media, favoured as such even. There is no greater cultural signifier of being White than Hollywood and Netflix making you the villain. Unless we mean in terms of skin, in which case they're paler than most Americans.

Honestly, the question only arises because America developed where White correlated with Anglo so much that they becamse synonymous. Like someone who grew up knowing only lemons and now debates whether limes are or are not citrus fruit, because they have only ever known citrus = lemon. Americans didn't even think the Irish, who are paler than the potatoes they eat, were White, until the cultures blended enough that American's Culture = Race effect kicked in.

 

[Fishnumm]

Russians are routinely allowed to be the Bad Guys in media, favoured as such even. There is no greater cultural signifier of being White than Hollywood and Netflix making you the villain. Unless we mean in terms of skin, in which case they're paler than most Americans.

Honestly, the question only arises because America developed where White correlated with Anglo so much that they becamse synonymous. Like someone who grew up knowing only lemons and now debates whether limes are or are not citrus fruit, because they have only ever known citrus = lemon. Americans didn't even think the Irish, who are paler than the potatoes they eat, were White, until the cultures blended enough that Americans Culture = Race effect kicked in.

its common for libshits to say "le murica has only killed brown people since ww2!" or something to that effect

are serbians not white reddit?

koreans arent really brown either too their yellow

 

[AMHOLIO]

Honestly, the question only arises because America developed where White correlated with Anglo so much that they becamse synonymous. Like someone who grew up knowing only lemons and now debates whether limes are or are not citrus fruit, because they have only ever known citrus = lemon. Americans didn't even think the Irish, who are paler than the potatoes they eat, were White, until the cultures blended enough that American's Culture = Race effect kicked in.

I think Euros also debate over it due to country rivalries and historical enemies, where western europe tenuously recognizes several countries as superior to others, which then goes to even european located internet supremacists picking up the habit of calling white skinned people "niggers". As you implied, Euros treat racism along country and nationality (and even provence lines) more for sure as they just have the history to facilitate it. Basically, you can be as pearly white as possible, but if your culture clashes with others or has more visible problems & corruption, you're subhuman rather than white in some circles. Or snownigger.

Shit, I don't even know if the eugenicists of 19th-20th century England considered the Irish white or something lesser. That's a history project for you I'm too lazy to look up.

 

[Overly Serious]

I think Euros also debate over it due to country rivalries and historical enemies, where western europe tenuously recognizes several countries as superior to others, which then goes to even european located internet supremacists picking up the habit of calling white skinned people "niggers". As you implied, Euros treat racism along country and nationality (and even provence lines) more for sure as they just have the history to facilitate it. Basically, you can be as pearly white as possible, but if your culture clashes with others or has more visible problems & corruption, you're subhuman rather than white in some circles. Or snownigger.

Shit, I don't even know if the eugenicists of 19th-20th century England considered the Irish white or something lesser. That's a history project for you I'm too lazy to look up.

No, you're right. I enjoy reading period novels and you get a lot of such attitudes expressed in them depending on who you read. And it's heavily entwined with class as well. Really, perhaps a better way to put it is that the amateur racists of America tie themselves in knots over who is or isn't White, when an English gentleman of the 19th Century would be "Is he English? Is he of good family? Was his grand father rumoured to be a Dago". Arguing over whether or not some group were White would be like a whole bunch of pedigree dog breeders being asked if a Pekinese were a dog. Of course it is - but that's hardly the question - it doesn't make it an English setter or a Dalmatian.

And if they do discuss cats by some chance, it's not in the bland "is a cat" generalities but they'll be as willing to discuss distinctions there as anywhere else. Read some old letters and some British officer will be remarking "but your Ethiope is not like your Bantu, no, ..." and such.

"White" as a category has been elevated to a prominence never known before now, and that presents problems for your modern racist who wants to draw fine distinctions but lacks the tools and language of their predecessors. Harry Flashman would twirl his moustache and say "dammit, man - I know what skin colour he has, but is it true his father's Scottish?"

 

[Otterly]

Shit, I don't even know if the eugenicists of 19th-20th century England considered the Irish white or something lesser.

Some didn’t, which is kind of ironic because the very whitest tone of skin is prevalent there (the see though, freckly type that never tans.) although some Irish are swarthy.
Was it Ben Franklin who insisted the Swedish weren’t white?

 

[Unredacted TND]

The map is this. Although I would move Spaniards one tier below.

 

[AMHOLIO]

"Is he English? Is he of good family? Was his grand father rumoured to be a Dago".

Could you fucking imagine Americans giving the same shit about class or position nowadays for a "good" or "well bred" family? God, what a culture shock.

I've probably said in this thread I cannot give too much of a shit about racism and want to focus on actions of individuals. My ideal is we encourage 3rd world cultures who intergrate with 1st world cultures to get with it or get bent and such, and to encourage any marginalized people out of victim mentality and empower themselves. That is a ton of effort over long term, so it sadly won't happen. But I genuinely think that modern racism should focus more on sociological factors, psychological factors of a culture, and genuine DNA shit. It's something people can subtly drop so they can actually change people's minds instead of boilerplate stuff that makes them look like they're no smarter than the people they hate. Not only that, it can actually help with health when dealing with mix raced kids as they might have risk factors or dietary concerns that could impact their health.

The big problem right now are Somalis, low IQ Indians, and Middle Eastern extremist folk who are actively harming people of all races in the place they immigrate to who aren't taking advantage of them. It's culture clash of extreme ideologies and a fear of overcorrection to harm a whole group of people, but stomping out extremist beliefs and horribly unsanitary actions is not racism, just a clash of ideology so insurmountable that it's best to kick them back out because they're stubbornly not changing. Focusing more on psychological and sociological factors can also help with that, but it will take a change in culture and reinforcement of laws to change it.

An ethnostate is short hand for preventing hard culture clash, competing for resources, and fostering trust in your own community. It doesn't solve everything and retards will foster in your community regardless. Plus, sending people outside to gather resources or interact/learn shit elsewhere will lead to genetic mixing no matter what. It can make us stronger if we use it right. Ethnostates are short term solutions for long term problems of social order and culture. I don't blame some who have that shitty of luck with other races that they want that, but IDK, working to force humans to comply or GTFO is better, along with maintaining a healthy attitude about your own heritage without letting it be your only "achievement" or being super overcorrecting.

 

[𝕺𝖑' 𝕯𝖎𝖗𝖙𝖞 𝕱𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖔]

Debate whether Russians are white or some other race here.

No