Are cities obsolete? - Is it time to retire these wretched hives of scum and villainy?

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HumanHive dijo:
My overall point is that cities should collapse under stress, which they did historically
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Even that isn't entirely true. There's a fair number of examples of cities that have been inhabited continuously for thousands of years. It's honestly dubious to say these are the exception rather than the rule given how few and far between city building was in that time.
 
Cities aren't obsolete, but "downtowns" are (which functionally only are about 100 years old). The weird obsession of how we must abandon the suburbs in favor of overpriced inner-city housing is confusing, especially as how even the "best" downtowns have just storefront convenience stores and restaurants, as well as a version of a chain grocery store that's a third the size of the suburban ones. That's not even counting the inherent problems (homeless everywhere, expensive parking, echoing of sirens, closing streets and transit for downtown events, tiny parks, etc.). I get the appeal of downtown areas and why people flock to them, but rather accept that people have different tastes in living, downtown/urban apologists will often use mental gymnastics to convince people why anything else is inferior.
 
Watermelanin dijo:
Even that isn't entirely true. There's a fair number of examples of cities that have been inhabited continuously for thousands of years.
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Mostly true is still true enough. I don't know the history of every city, but constantinople/ istanbul is in that list and it was depopulated numerous times. At least once to such a degree that they were starting large scale farms inside the city walls. Was it really still a city at that point?
 
Lemmingwise dijo:
Mostly true is still true enough. I don't know the history of every city, but constantinople/ istanbul is in that list and it was depopulated numerous times. At least once to such a degree that they were starting large scale farms inside the city walls. Was it really still a city at that point?
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What I'm questioning here is if it's "mostly true" at all, especially given the fact that the only way for this distinction to make any sense is if it held true in relation to smaller townships. Obviously, if rural communities depopulated at the same (or greater) rate as cities, the whole idea that cities were ever inherently unstable by virtue of them being cities goes out the widow. Whether that is the case, I honestly don't know.
 
ZeCommissar dijo:
Over 50% of humanity lives in a city, with it being over 60% in the coming decades.

Tell me something; where the fuck are all those people going to go? 3.75 billion people isn't a small number

And yes cities are still important in a modern industrial society. Unless you want to revert back to pre-industrial agargian society cities will always be around....well there goes your "advances in transportation" argument.
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The Netherlands is a great example of a highly dispersed country with only one big city centre, that being Amsterdam. And the Netherlands has one of the highest, if not the highest, agricultural capacity in the world. I'm pretty sure the Netherlands could feed itself 2 or 3 times over. If we really want a sustainable world I think the Dutch model of a highly dispersed population is the way to go.
And to add to this it also makes for stronger communities. People are always whining about the modern world being so isolating, well if we had just a bunch of small cities instead of one mega city I'm sure this would improve the situation.
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HumanHive dijo:
We're not talking about six degrees of separation, we're talking about how cities are cold anonymous places where nobody bothers to get to know their neighbor. Can you have a close knit urban neighborhood? Sure, but it requires some degree of tribalism and a lack of mobility. But in modern times that's practically unheard of. It's why urban dwellers are considered so rude, because they don't bother making social investments in a city of ten million.

My overall point is that cities should collapse under stress, which they did historically, but not anymore.
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Cities only fall apart when they're at the core of an empire that dies. Most cities are sustained by the fact they supply the countryside with manufactured necessities. Kindof why you have cities that are 4000 years old.

Cities tended to have local pubs and marketplaces so I doubt they're the cause of our current social alienation.

Heck, rural America is where the drug epidemic is.
 
I get nervous when people start questioning the greatness of urban life, like I'm at the top of a pyramid scheme whose base is rumbling.

No seriously, cities are the best way to live. Diversity and culture and science and whatnot.
 
Ted_Breakfast dijo:
I get nervous when people start questioning the greatness of urban life, like I'm at the top of a pyramid scheme whose base is rumbling.

No seriously, cities are the best way to live. Diversity and culture and science and whatnot.
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I haven't been here long enough to know how many layers of irony we're on, but you're making fun of narcissistic yuppie fucks, right?
 
People who live in the country do so for a reason. Same goes for city dwellers. Suburbanites, well, no idea about those folk. Never lived in a burb. There will always be people going from one to the other, but in general, no. Major metropolitan areas aren't going anywhere.
 
Given the current and frequent news pertaining to mass exoduses around the US, I was pondering on whether big cities (Brooklyn, Seattle, Los Angeles, etc.) were still worth living in, in contrast to the small and more rural areas, which seem to prime locales for the fleeing.

For other city-slickers like myself, what are the happenings in your cities? Are people dipping out quick? And for those who live in the suburbs or closer to small towns, how's it going?
 
I guess it really depends on the city, but most city propers are a no-go for me. There's cities like Phoenix which have low-population density, sprawl, and more suburban feels in many areas. I still like the suburbs best, and many people are now living in the exurbs.

Expect the suburbs to keep getting more diverse, and the exurbs to be mostly white. That's how it is in my metro area.
 
Cities are great. Everyone should stay in theirs. The boondocks are full of inbred hillbillies who smoke meth who will shoot at you in your car if they hear you listening to anything but Johnny Rebel. Plus, there are no jobs. You can't even get Cambodian takeout at 1am. No reason to leave y our city.
 
We left our city a few years ago because houses are completely unaffordable thanks to Air Bnb and dirty Chinese money driving up the price of real estate to insane levels. For instance my parents paid about $300K for their house back in the early 90s. Today it’s worth about $1.5 million. It doesn’t have a huge lot, nor is it particularly nice, nor is it located in a super nice neighbourhood. If you were to look for something closer to downtown proper, you’d easily be looking at $2-$3 million for any sort of house.

If you’re an average middle class person, and you want to live in the city, your only option is to buy a tiny overpriced condo, which sucks because you essentially have less rights than a renter, with the added responsibility and expense of being an owner. Condo fees are retarded too. It’s calculated based on the square footage of your unit, so if you had a 1000 square foot unit and your building charges $0.70 per square foot, you’re looking at $700 a month on top of your mortgage and property taxes. And that’s if you’re lucky enough to find a place with more than 1 bedroom.

Moreover, hubs and I want to have kiddos and couldn’t imagine trying to raise them in the city. Shit has gone downhill in the past 5 years and violent crime is on the uptick. I also don’t want to have to explain to my future children why some homeless guy is taking a shit in the middle of the street.

Our options were to buy an overpriced condo or move out of the city to a more rural area. We chose the latter and it’s the best goddamn decision we made. We have an honest to god detached house and a half acre of land. Our neighbours are awesome and there’s more of a sense of community here. At this point, you couldn’t pay me enough to move back to the city.
 
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