Apple TV's "Foundation" - Based on the Isaac Asimov books

[Sam Losco]

Set to premiere later this year.

 

[Dagobert]

I never understood why people were so autistic about their hatred of the new Star Wars movies until seeing the Foundation Trailer and reading about the work.

There's an insane amount wrong with Apple's Foundation; it's immensely disappointing that what we've seen indicates it will be normie-fodder bland CGI shit and basically will ignore the source material for the writer's own spergry. Plus the insertion of politics will only be a determent to a work like Foundation.

I want to see Weenis getting dabbed on by Salvor Hardin through cunning and words, or Hobor Mallow using the power of "lods emone" to strangle Korell FFS, not Gale Dornick and Hari Seldon's shooty adventures through the Empire. Hell, the opening shot with fem-Dornick getting to see Trantor from space demonstrates how little they actually read the books or gave a shit about them.

 

[L50LasPak]

People said Dune was impossible to adapt into a movie but I always disagreed with that notion. I do adore the 1984 movie though, but I'm not blind to how terrible it is as a straight adaptation of the source material. In my opinion, if you want a series that cannot be adapted to a movie, it would be Foundation.

Speaking conventionally, Foundation does not have a plot. At least not a singular, contiguous one. It definitely does not have a main character. The important characters throughout each story are almost always unrealted to each other as well, so you can't pull any bullshit with identical descendants. The series also lacks a singular villain or villanous faction. Technically if you count regime chages as a change in faction, there isn't even one protagonist faction that stays in power. (The Foundation is only a country, its internal factions change and evolve as time goes on; from the Encyclopedists, to the Merchants, to the Mayoral Dynasty, etc). You can't even reuse sets and props because of the immense time span between segments; you'd have to dress at least interiors differently depending on the era.

The only way I could see Foundation coming anywhere near being faithfully adapted would be to turn it into a sort of anthology show. Episodes about an hour each, with only three at most devoted to each segment of the story. I'd actually dare say that almost every segment of the story can be boiled down into only a single episode, with the exception of the longer ones like the Mule plotline and the Second Foundation plotline.

More importantly though the show lacks all of the draws that Star Trek, Star Wars, Bablyon 5, even Known Space and such have made people accustomed to. There are almost no space battles, no sword duels, no bombastic Flash Gordon-esque supervillains, nothing. Just politics and the occasional detective plot, with science fiction trappings. You could hypothetically film the entire series in one room with a few people talking, boring as that would be. There's an audio drama out there that does exactly this. People like me would be fine with that, but modern audiences would be bored to tears most likely.

More than anything else though the series has no ending, and consensus is that Foundation and Earth is widely disliked. There's not really a good solution to this.

 

[mayonnaise]

First 2 episodes are out and it's pretty meh.

They forgot the science in science fiction. First episode they tell you that they can't use jump drive tech, so the 50,000 lightyear journey to Terminus will take 887 days (!?). And second episode, they are journeying to Terminus and the guy say they have 52 month left (which is 1500+ days) of an 887 day trip...If those guys are supposed to save the universe with science, its not off to a good start.

CGI is nice though, I'll probably just watch for that and skip the boring part where they talk.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

First 2 episodes are out and it's pretty meh.

They forgot the science in science fiction.

In fairness, so did Asimov. The series' entire conceit is that this one guy randomly figures out how to be the Great Value version of Laplace's Demon.

 

[Dagobert]

First 2 episodes are out and it's pretty meh.

They forgot the science in science fiction. First episode they tell you that they can't use jump drive tech, so the 50,000 lightyear journey to Terminus will take 887 days (!?). And second episode, they are journeying to Terminus and the guy say they have 52 month left (which is 1500+ days) of an 887 day trip...If those guys are supposed to save the universe with science, its not off to a good start.

CGI is nice though, I'll probably just watch for that and skip the boring part where they talk.

I haven't seen it yet, although I might look to some method of pirating at least the first episode to give myself an excuse to be angry. Is there even a trial in the opening episodes? I know they've basically wrote their own stories draped in the skin of Foundation, but I'm curious if they kept that in.

In fairness, so did Asimov. The series' entire conceit is that this one guy randomly figures out how to be the Great Value version of Laplace's Demon.

The concept of psychohistory is definitely a very fluff thing, but I do think the concept might hold some value. Predicting an individual human's actions are functionally impossible, but as collective sums we might be able to draw some conclusions. Certainly not as actively as initially presented in Foundation, but I imagine on a galactic scale the action of human masses might be somewhat predicable.


Also, while checking the spelling of Dornick, I stumbled on this artwork of Hobor Mallow and the Korellian Secret Police agent. I really wish they went down this route instead. The audiobook I listened too was nothing exciting, but the voice given to the Agent really conveyed the slightly mad-sounding figure he was described as.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

I haven't seen it yet, although I might look to some method of pirating at least the first episode to give myself an excuse to be angry. Is there even a trial in the opening episodes? I know they've basically wrote their own stories draped in the skin of Foundation, but I'm curious if they kept that in.


The concept of psychohistory is definitely a very fluff thing, but I do think the concept might hold some value. Predicting an individual human's actions are functionally impossible, but as collective sums we might be able to draw some conclusions. Certainly not as actively as initially presented in Foundation, but I imagine on a galactic scale the action of human masses might be somewhat predicable.

In a closed environment over a limited period of time, perhaps, but a single unforeseen scientific breakthrough, charismatic leader, or outside context problem can cause the who thing to go tits up. Asimov even acknowledged that problem with The Mule, but didn't apply it to the infinity other things that could make the wheels come off the plan, probably because that would require acknowledging how untenable the premise was.

Asimov was, frankly, a good scientist but a crap novelist.

 

[KillEmAll1989]

The actor (Leah Harvey) playing Salvor is a they:

 

[Dagobert]

In a closed environment over a limited period of time, perhaps, but a single unforeseen scientific breakthrough, charismatic leader, or outside context problem can cause the who thing to go tits up. Asimov even acknowledged that problem with The Mule, but didn't apply it to the infinity other things that could make the wheels come off the plan, probably because that would require acknowledging how untenable the premise was.

I think that the reason why the Second Foundation was given the psychic powers and become this shadowy cabal of infiltrators was to explain how the plan survived as long as it did. The First Speaker in Second Foundation actually points out how Seldon wasn't able to produce a perfect plan and it has actually been in continual development since the Second Foundation was established.

But, I do think it is a weaker part of the story.

Spoiler: Spergery about The Plan

Personally, I think it should have been that the Seldon Plan only worked for the first century or two of the Foundation, with the twist in Second Foundation being that neither the Plan nor Second Foundation were still around. Remember how Kalgan fucking eats shit despite not having a single planet be lost? It's because Kalganians think the Foundation is led under a mystical plan thought up by a seeming superman, and that a bunch of Mules are running support if the Foundation eat shit too hard.

By the time of Second Foundation, neither the Second Foundation or the Seldon Plan are actually necessary for the Foundation to kick the shit out of its neighbors. Even by the beginning of the Mule's story in Foundation and Empire, everyone is scared of the Foundation. IMO, the story would have seemed more believable if the Seldon Plan was just a piece of psychological warefare/religious prophecy by Foundation and Empire.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

It's out?

Is it worth pirating? I loved the series.

 

[Dagobert]

It's out?

Is it worth pirating? I loved the series.

From the description alone, it's nothing like the original. The Empire is ran from a clone series of Emperors, the Galaxy is no longer united in Seldon's time and it seems more like an action series.

Also, Dornick isn't a fresh-minted PhD student, but a "special" person who magically solves a certain math problem. That's why he she joins the Seldon project.

Haven't watched it, but it sounds not good.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

It's sad. It's a cool show, but I think it's going to be on par with the Dark crystal series. The budget is way too ambitious for streaming services. I really, really like it, but I'm not holding my breath for season 2. I liked Dark Crystal too, and I was heartbroken.

 

[Mullti Port RDRAM]

I never read the Asimov books so I came in with a fresh perspective. It certainly has great production values, the sets and effects make it feel more epic than it really is. I don't think Apple or Skydance can maintain something this sprawling and ambitious for even a whole season.

Jared Harris is basically playing the same character from Chernobyl. Same goes for Lee Pace and Guardians of the Galaxy. This is a problem. If the performances are this predictable...

 

[TaimuRadiu]

Everybody here should listen to the BBC's 1970s adaptation of The Foundation Trilogy.

Foundation Trilogy, The -- BBC 1973 Radio Drama, 8 hours : PEDRO GREENAWAY : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Foundation Trilogy, The -- BBC 1973 Radio Drama, 8 hours

archive.org

 

[Rarghs]

So I read the trilogy just before the show came out and I have been watching it with someone who hasn't read the books and they asked me if certain things were in the books and I had to say that of the two episodes we watched the only things that were in the books were the two planets, Harry Seldon, and the court scene and exile. But I do enjoy what I've seen so far. I'm just going to go into thinking of it as a re-imagining

 

[Mullti Port RDRAM]

Spoiler: dog penis

I guess Jared Harris can't be typecast if he's fucking killed off two episodes in

In fact, the faster we get thrown new characters the less interested I get in this show. I feel like the budget was front-loaded and the lull is starting.

 

[Dagobert]

Spoiler: dog penis

I guess Jared Harris can't be typecast if he's fucking killed off two episodes in

In fact, the faster we get thrown new characters the less interested I get in this show. I feel like the budget was front-loaded and the lull is starting.

To be fair, Seldon canonically suffers from crippling boneitus and died within two years of the trial. Did they accelerate that in Apple's "Foundation" ?

 

[Mullti Port RDRAM]

To be fair, Seldon canonically suffers from crippling boneitus and died within two years of the trial. Did they accelerate that in Apple's "Foundation" ?

yeah he gets fucking stabbed at the end of the second episode and we're not clear on the time that passed, it's been a couple of months at least.

 

[Rarghs]

Is the Android emperors assistant in the robots series or the two books outside of the foundation trilogy?

 

[Mullti Port RDRAM]

Is the Android emperors assistant in the robots series or the two books outside of the foundation trilogy?

I don't know but I doubt they are if they are lax about letting humans suffer like in episode 2's open. Asimov's three laws and all that.