World Of Darkness General (VtM, WtO, MtA, etc.)

[Emperor Julian]

Any 13th generation vampire has a 50% chance of embracing a thin-blood, and the way that generations work is that typically, it takes around three centuries for new generations to mature (the 13th generation being thin-blooded in the dark ages, but are fully "matured" full vampires as of the 20th century and have been for at least a century or two). That'd make the 14th close to the "mature" age—especially since half their numbers are full kindred themselves. If anything, elevate the 14th generation to full maturity, though with the same innate 14th generation limits, and make the 15th generation only 1/2 thin-blooded as of 2021. The Inquisition has killed off a lot of the thin-bloods from 15th and 16th generations, but the 14th generation who were older used connections with kindred like Cross to survive and make themselves useful, and now that the Inquisition has been doing it's thing for about five years now—kindred are wising up to their tricks. Meaning this fully matured 14th generation is embracing again, thus creating new thin-bloods.

I think this is were I'm seeing the issue. I honestly can't see that many 13th generation being around by the 2021 due to the absolute shit show that is the 2nd inquisition. I think the problem is the 5th wanted its cake and to eat it. It wants the gehenna war which ties into thin blood prophecies and such but this sort of setting requires a massive overpopulation of vampires which can't mesh with the absolute descimation of their societies. By pushing the plot forward they wrote themselves into a corner where heavy kindred casualties are going to be a pressure release via depopulation like they were in the long night or 14th century but they can't have that happen.

 

[Techpriest]

It's a minor thing but how are his ears pierced? He's two hunded years old and kindred bodies revert to death norms every night so cannot keep piercings.


I could see that working but with the second inquisition the sheer scale of kindred neonate casualties is going to make it difficult to even create one eventually especially if we conceed caitiff are fucked.

You can make small changes permanent by spending willpower.

 

[ThatOneLurker]

I think this is were I'm seeing the issue. I honestly can't see that many 13th generation being around by the 2021 due to the absolute shit show that is the 2nd inquisition. I think the problem is the 5th wanted its cake and to eat it. It wants the gehenna war which ties into thin blood prophecies and such but this sort of setting requires a massive overpopulation of vampires which can't mesh with the absolute descimation of their societies. By pushing the plot forward they wrote themselves into a corner where heavy kindred casualties are going to be a pressure release via depopulation like they were in the long night or 14th century but they can't have that happen.

I generally agree with this. I think 5th realized this and decided that instead of doing the rational thing and killing off younger kindred, they tried to kill off most of the Elders and move everything up—but doing that kind of ruins the setting in a way. If the Antediluvians, Methuselahs, and Elders are dead why is the Jyhad still going on? Who the fuck is still operating the Camarilla? What makes someone an Elder? Is it generation? Blood potency? Age? 5th expects you to come up with all of that by yourself and thinks it's being cool and "open" with it's story telling, but really it's being lazy.

Also, the story-telling contradicts itself at the same time because every fuck old vampire from Chicago by Night minus like three or four are still around—even the ones that should be dead. Not only are they still around, they feel young again, and revitalized so they're probably back in the setting for good. If that's a taste of how it's going to be across the entire World of Darkness than the Beckoning as a plot point is fucking pointless. The Elders are still there. The Elders are still operating the Camarilla. Everything is operating just as it always has expect now dumber and more SJW.

 

[Adamska]

I generally agree with this. I think 5th realized this and decided that instead of doing the rational thing and killing off younger kindred, they tried to kill off most of the Elders and move everything up—but doing that kind of ruins the setting in a way. If the Antediluvians, Methuselahs, and Elders are dead why is the Jyhad still going on? Who the fuck is still operating the Camarilla? What makes someone an Elder? Is it generation? Blood potency? Age? 5th expects you to come up with all of that by yourself and thinks it's being cool and "open" with it's story telling, but really it's being lazy.

Also, the story-telling contradicts itself at the same time because every fuck old vampire from Chicago by Night minus like three or four are still around—even the ones that should be dead. Not only are they still around, they feel young again, and revitalized so they're probably back in the setting for good. If that's a taste of how it's going to be across the entire World of Darkness than the Beckoning as a plot point is fucking pointless. The Elders are still there. The Elders are still operating the Camarilla. Everything is operating just as it always has expect now dumber and more SJW.

They tried to thread the needle it sounds like, where they wanted a nuke to zero approach where there's a ginormous power struggle as the lower tiers of the Camarilla try to hammer out a new order (and the power struggle that creates). But the problem is they didn't just nut up and do a full levelling, since they had too many pet favorites to keep or were terrified at demolishing the lore to do it.

So you have something that sucks in both way; you don't get the changed situation if you wanted something like that, and you don't get the bajillion bits of establishment if you prefer just the old lore.

TBH, the full decapitation sounds more interesting to me, but that's due to my own peculiarities with lore... that and my most successful Vamp game did this when I took Phoenix and trashed everything due to Gangrel suicide bomber being shockingly effective.

 

[Hummingbird]

Was anyone else kind of bummed that they decided to wipe-out the Vampires of Montreal? Granted the mortals of the city can breathe a sigh of relief, but I liked most of the characters and the Path Nocturnal Redemption is a vastly underrated path.

TBH, the full decapitation sounds more interesting to me, but that's due to my own peculiarities with lore... that and my most successful Vamp game did this when I took Phoenix and trashed everything due to Gangrel suicide bomber being shockingly effective.

This I gotta hear.

 

[Adamska]

Was anyone else kind of bummed that they decided to wipe-out the Vampires of Montreal? Granted the mortals of the city can breathe a sigh of relief, but I liked most of the characters and the Path Nocturnal Redemption is a vastly underrated path.

This I gotta hear.

Basically you know how TheSpoonyOne talked about his one attempt at doing a VtR LARP? Well, I just took that and converted it into the oWOD setting. Invictus were treated as Giovanni, Lancea Sanctum was Sabbat, and the players were a part of the suicide squad of Cammies sent to try and take the city under their Malkie Prince. The whole set up was that this was not likely to succeed so the higher ups were oddballs being kindly sent to their deaths, including the party for reasons unknown.

It was a game of reclamation and social engineering, since they were somehow an All-Tremere party.

 

[Emperor Julian]

I generally agree with this. I think 5th realized this and decided that instead of doing the rational thing and killing off younger kindred, they tried to kill off most of the Elders and move everything up—but doing that kind of ruins the setting in a way. If the Antediluvians, Methuselahs, and Elders are dead why is the Jyhad still going on? Who the fuck is still operating the Camarilla? What makes someone an Elder? Is it generation? Blood potency? Age? 5th expects you to come up with all of that by yourself and thinks it's being cool and "open" with it's story telling, but really it's being lazy.

Also, the story-telling contradicts itself at the same time because every fuck old vampire from Chicago by Night minus like three or four are still around—even the ones that should be dead. Not only are they still around, they feel young again, and revitalized so they're probably back in the setting for good. If that's a taste of how it's going to be across the entire World of Darkness than the Beckoning as a plot point is fucking pointless. The Elders are still there. The Elders are still operating the Camarilla. Everything is operating just as it always has expect now dumber and more SJW.

Yeah the more I think on it the less it makes sense the Sects should have largely collapsed and we should be looking at a sitution simular the the long night were regional powers are the norm and in some places its just one vampire .

Wonder how 5th vtm would affect the garou nation if the writters were competant? The decimation of the vampire nations would take a lot of pressure of them so white wolf are going to have to write around that.

 

[Hummingbird]

So does anyone follow any WoD podcasts or YT channels? The main podcast I follow is 25 Years of Vampire the Masquerade (they are starting to cover WtA and VtR as well). They also have a great YT channel with a fun parody character called, Professor Powergamer. They're also one of the only people I know that go over the Storyteller's Vault stuff and sadly, they won't do more of it unless there's more demand.

 

[Syaoran Li]

Personally, I take the approach that V5 never happened and no V5 settings or material will ever be allowed at my table if I run oWoD.

Requiem was pretty good though, and I think it gets a lot of undue hate.

 

[Adamska]

Requiem is fine, my biggest gripe is you kind of have to read both the first and second editions of it since 1e's fluff is good, and 2e's mechanics are good.

But 2e's fluff is shit due to its abridged nature and 1e is clunky due to being the first nWOD book to be made.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I like Requiem, I just want to take an axe to the Covenants. Or at the very least make their members pretty rare and have most vampires be unaligned. Two playable factions (Anarchs and Camarilla) is great. Three (Independents/Sabbat) is fine. Five? No. Whitewolf's insistence in adding yet another layer of tribal conflict to creatures that really should be individualistic (Vampires and Mages) and cooperate for the sake of survival never made any fucking sense to me. The Covenants were particularly egregious because they're so completely alien to one another there's no reason for them to remain separate beyond just the authors artificially trying to increase conflict in the setting.

Again, it would be perfectly fine to me if the Covenants were something vampires only joined if they had true conviction (or the skills necessary to be accepted), and most vampires, including powerful ones, would be unaligned. Secret societies, obscure cults and exclusive clubs, as opposed to something you have to be part of because it's in your character sheet.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I like Requiem, I just want to take an axe to the Covenants. Or at the very least make their members pretty rare and have most vampires be unaligned. Two playable factions (Anarchs and Camarilla) is great. Three (Independents/Sabbat) is fine. Five? No. Whitewolf's insistence in adding yet another layer of tribal conflict to creatures that really should be individualistic (Vampires and Mages) and cooperate for the sake of survival never made any fucking sense to me. The Covenants were particularly egregious because they're so completely alien to one another there's no reason for them to remain separate beyond just the authors artificially trying to increase conflict in the setting.

Again, it would be perfectly fine to me if the Covenants were something vampires only joined if they had true conviction (or the skills necessary to be accepted), and most vampires, including powerful ones, would be unaligned. Secret societies, obscure cults and exclusive clubs, as opposed to something you have to be part of because it's in your character sheet.

I think some of the Covenants like the Circle of the Crone, Lancea Sanctum, and Ordo Dracul could've also worked in a similar way as the Paths of Enlightenment in the old-school Masquerade or the Roads in Dark Ages oWoD.

Unfortunately, Justin Achilli hated Paths of Enlightenment as a concept and he's responsible for a lot of the more pretentious and proto-woke shit in oWoD, and he helmed the development of Requiem 1E.

The way I'd do it is have the Circle, Lancea Sanctum, and Ordo Dracul act as alternatives to Humanity and are more like sub-factions.

The majority of vampires would be unaligned with the Invictus and Carthians acting as rough analogues to the Camarilla and Anarchs respectively while Belial's Brood is more akin to the early versions of the Sabbat.

The average Kindred in a city may pay the most basic lip service to either the Invictus or Carthians depending on who runs the city but is really unaligned in practice.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

No wonder Legacy of Lies had that crappy character if she was behind it. When you say core book, which edition? Just curious.

Oh yeah, here's her twitter.

Enjoy!

 

[Hummingbird]

I came across this podcast that tells of a splat that didn't make it called, Alien the Hidden. It's interesting.

Other than that, is there anything you like about v5? There are updates that they've done on some of the characters that I've liked. Anastasia (Milwaukee by Night) has managed to free herself from her sire and make a name as one of Decker's judges. It's nice to see her be a stronger person without it being the SJW kind of "strong female".

 

[knightlautrec]

Other than that, is there anything you like about v5?

The idea of returning to 1st editions personal horror rather than a vampire political sim is a noble goal. LARP has coated VtM in a murky, cheeto dust of smarmy 'I'm so smart and manipulate others' cancer that it's made the general oldfag consumers cutthroat and annoying in a power trip sort of way. VtM servers are full of smug egos who think they're the best and love metagaming to murder other players and running off any new blood by being autistic and spergy.

Trying to get rid of that annoying patch of oldfags who play like that instead of make actual characters or a worthwhile story? Is a good thing but v5 falls down on the job making it still a political game but without any sort of infrastructure up top so the bulk of it is you trying to figure out what to do now that your ancient ass Elders holding the eternal game together are gone.

Just stupid.

 

[Adamska]

The idea of returning to 1st editions personal horror rather than a vampire political sim is a noble goal. LARP has coated VtM in a murky, cheeto dust of smarmy 'I'm so smart and manipulate others' cancer that it's made the general oldfag consumers cutthroat and annoying in a power trip sort of way. VtM servers are full of smug egos who think they're the best and love metagaming to murder other players and running off any new blood by being autistic and spergy.

Trying to get rid of that annoying patch of oldfags who play like that instead of make actual characters or a worthwhile story? Is a good thing but v5 falls down on the job making it still a political game but without any sort of infrastructure up top so the bulk of it is you trying to figure out what to do now that your ancient ass Elders holding the eternal game together are gone.

Just stupid.

Not really, it's more of a powervacuum that can lead to some impressive gang wars. Shuffle in lowtier older characters with some new blood, and you have a newer and more lively game of politicking.

v5 fucked it up by trying to eat the cake and have it too while also forcing a shitty narrative undead ravenous monsters shouldn't buy into at all given their new circumstances.

Oh and in other news, I find I grow much more fond of Kindred of the East as I read it. The idea of you being an asshole who died and is forcibly reincarnated into a Kuei Jin to pay off your karmic imbalance, all while trying to battle your inner demon (who is intelligent and based on your alignment and id), and always threatening to forget the journey and reason for your return? Interesting shit man.

It's like Wraith and Vampire had a kid and it's really good baring the cringe as fuck Asiabooism in it.

 

[Hummingbird]

Oh and in other news, I find I grow much more fond of Kindred of the East as I read it. The idea of you being an asshole who died and is forcibly reincarnated into a Kuei Jin to pay off your karmic imbalance, all while trying to battle your inner demon (who is intelligent and based on your alignment and id), and always threatening to forget the journey and reason for your return? Interesting shit man.

It's like Wraith and Vampire had a kid and it's really good baring the cringe as fuck Asiabooism in it.

Ah KoE. The Devil Tigers were my favorite of the original Dharmas. The Face of Gods were my favorite heretic Dharma.

 

[Mola Ram]

I just came here to whine about Mage, a game I loved in high school and college but whose 20th Anniversary edition might well be the most insufferable RPG book I've ever had the displeasure to read. Brucato's lunacy even infects the character creation chapter.

All takes on Mage welcome.

 

[WhatIsThePunchline]

I just came here to whine about Mage, a game I loved in high school and college but whose 20th Anniversary edition might well be the most insufferable RPG book I've ever had the displeasure to read. Brucato's lunacy even infects the character creation chapter.

All takes on Mage welcome.

It's the best wod game because it's the weirdest but it's difficult to run in modern times without a very depressing 'the technocrats beat the fuck out of the traditions and took the ascension war' setting.

 

[Adamska]

It's the best wod game because it's the weirdest but it's difficult to run in modern times without a very depressing 'the technocrats beat the fuck out of the traditions and took the ascension war' setting.

Uh... just do the Venture Bros. You can genuinely do that with Mage and it works perfectly; Dr. Venture and Dr. Orpheus are great examples of Mages.