World Of Darkness General (VtM, WtO, MtA, etc.)

[Hummingbird]

Probably Monica Speca’s work. She’s ridiculously woke and all about shoehorning LGBT content in wherever she can; very much one of those “queer ALL the things” types. The line was also formerly developed by our own David Hill. The Tzimisce clan picture in the core book? Yeah, that’s a troon. A troon who was seen for what they really are, embraced and wifed by none other than Vladimir Rustovich.

Yes, THAT Vladimir Rustovich. The Voivode of Voivodes.

No wonder Legacy of Lies had that crappy character if she was behind it. When you say core book, which edition? Just curious.

 

[EnemyStand]

Has anyone had their eye-rolling moments with WoD/CoD? I'd have to say one of them for me was in Legacy of Lies were they have a ready-made Dark Ages character who is non-binary Asian Vampire and has they/them pronouns. I can understand Sascha Vykos having them since they're an inhuman creature that has a more alien way of thinking and can easily change gender and form. Granted my knowledge of dark age era Asia is little to none, but wasn't it very patriarchal? This kind of character would be laughed at (at best).

"Excuse me, honorable shogun. But as I am genderfluid, I must respectfully request you refer to me by my preferred pronouns."
Shogun: Executes in shogun.

 

[Emperor Julian]

I'd have to go with clan hecata and the incorperation of obtenerbration into death magics. They've welded seperate 5 bloodlines which don't match and a nerfed boring discipline which makes no sense and i still can't really play a modern Cappadocian who are the best clan of the 5 anyway.

 

[Adamska]

Has anyone had their eye-rolling moments with WoD/CoD? I'd have to say one of them for me was in Legacy of Lies were they have a ready-made Dark Ages character who is non-binary Asian Vampire and has they/them pronouns. I can understand Sascha Vykos having them since they're an inhuman creature that has a more alien way of thinking and can easily change gender and form. Granted my knowledge of dark age era Asia is little to none, but wasn't it very patriarchal? This kind of character would be laughed at (at best).

The one Mage organization that went all "men get out REEE~" if I had to really think of something, since that was embarrassing for all involved.

 

[Hummingbird]

I'd have to go with clan hecata and the incorperation of obtenerbration into death magics. They've welded seperate 5 bloodlines which don't match and a nerfed boring discipline which makes no sense and i still can't really play a modern Cappadocian who are the best clan of the 5 anyway.

Reminds me why I don't like how they dwarfed all the ancient and/or low-generation Vampires by refusing to have a stat or discipline go beyond five. (Even some of those that kind of like V5 thought that was stupid.) That just ruins the difficulty and prestige of them when you do that IMHO.

 

[Hummingbird]

Going back to the Kindred in a wheelchair, I can't help thinking of the wheelchair-bound Maureen O'Leary who (if I remember correctly) needed to spend three blood points to even function outside of it. There was also the Angry Young Man template in the revised Lasombra Clanbook where he just used the shadows the carry him. So a disabled Kindred can be done.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

No wonder Legacy of Lies had that crappy character if she was behind it. When you say core book, which edition? Just curious.

20th Anniversary Edition

 

[Pentex]

Has anyone had their eye-rolling moments with WoD/CoD? I'd have to say one of them for me was in Legacy of Lies were they have a ready-made Dark Ages character who is non-binary Asian Vampire and has they/them pronouns. I can understand Sascha Vykos having them since they're an inhuman creature that has a more alien way of thinking and can easily change gender and form. Granted my knowledge of dark age era Asia is little to none, but wasn't it very patriarchal? This kind of character would be laughed at (at best).

Everyone's favorite '5s in all combat stats' Brujah KANGZ Theo Bell supposedly fighting Karsh, a 5th generation Gangrel warlord and not getting his shit pushed in all the way to his lungs.

Also this hilarious two pages of V5 fuckery which endorses political violence (bordering on terrorism considering its Cainites vs. unwitting mortals), so long as it is done by the 'good people' to the 'bad people.'

 

[Hummingbird]

Everyone's favorite '5s in all combat stats' Brujah KANGZ Theo Bell supposedly fighting Karsh, a 5th generation Gangrel warlord and not getting his shit pushed in all the way to his lungs.

Also this hilarious two pages of V5 fuckery which endorses political violence (bordering on terrorism considering its Cainites vs. unwitting mortals), so long as it is done by the 'good people' to the 'bad people.'
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Oh ugh! That is just pathetic. Thank God I skipped out on the Camarilla and Anarch V5 books. As for the first part, I like Theo Bell, but you're right, he should be the one who was staked and thrown into a river, not Karsh. Also, I don't like how they've drawn him in V5...

I always pictured Theo being played either by Wesley Snipes or a young Samuel L Jackson. He should look like a tough guy.

 

[Pentex]

Oh ugh! That is just pathetic. Thank God I skipped out on the Camarilla and Anarch V5 books. As for the first part, I like Theo Bell, but you're right, he should be the one who was staked and thrown into a river, not Karsh. Also, I don't like how they've drawn him in V5...

Ver archivo adjunto 2011783

I always pictured Theo being played either by Wesley Snipes or a young Samuel L Jackson. He should look like a tough guy.

I was never a fan of Theo Bell, but his V:tES art was probably the best rendition of him:

Going back to the Kindred in a wheelchair, I can't help thinking of the wheelchair-bound Maureen O'Leary who (if I remember correctly) needed to spend three blood points to even function outside of it. There was also the Angry Young Man template in the revised Lasombra Clanbook where he just used the shadows the carry him. So a disabled Kindred can be done.

Vampires are not above Embracing someone as kind of an eternal 'fuck you' to whatever mortal offended them (Clan Nosferatu). The Lasombra wouldn't as they view it as a privilege to be one of them (why the Tzimisce and the Lasombra leave the shovelhead parties to the antitribu). Now, if a Lasombra ran across someone like Elijah Price/Mr. Glass, yeah, they'd be a candidate for the Lasombra, working legs or not.

More WOD eye-rolls:
Heylel Teomim and the betrayal of the First Cabal. An alchemist and a whore do the fusion dance to create a fujoshi-bait Mage with super-charisma (nerd wish fulfillment) who names himself LUCIFER(Heylel). Betrays his allies to the Order of Reason, so that they will unite against a common enemy. Mages instead execute him by ripping his soul to pieces. One of the First Cabal who survived, Salonikas, like Q-Anon, predicted Teomim's betrayal, but kept his mouth shut so that Teomim would be executed instead of imprisoned. Why? Because if he was imprisoned, he would unite the Traditions and the Order of Reason into a dictatorship of mages and become Lord Voldemort...I mean, MOLOCH.

Goatboy Phil Brucato, ladies and gentlemen. He might be a cringey, chaos magick paganfag, but at least he doesn't bore me like Matthew Dawkins.

 

[Individualism Incarnate]

so long as it is done by the 'good people' to the 'bad people.'

Jesus, did MovieBob write that?

 

[Hummingbird]

I remember this eye-roller where there's a rite in the revised Child of Gaia tribebook called, Rite of the Clouds and Rain. FATAL and Friends can explain it better than I can...

This rite is kept a careful secret by Children of Gaia, and all who so much as know of it must swear never to mention it among non-initiates - if revealed, anyone involved would likely be ostracized by the rest of the Garou Nation. It allows the partial control of Rage at the price of violating a basic Garou law: the first precept of the Litany.

The rite involves channeling the force of Rage by having sex in Crinos form. To avoid injury or death to the partners, both must be Garou. Because the fear of producing a metis is so great, metis are often asked to perform the rite, as they are sterile. Some Garou often enjoy multiple partners while performing this rite, although having more than one sexual partner during the rite can be somewhat confusing. Some say that the more Garou are involved, the more powerful the rite becomes. The truth of this is unknown.

System: The sexual partners invoke the spirits of peace and of desire, spending a point of Gnosis. They must demonstrate genuine affection for each other , or the rite will not work. If it works, the Garou can control the tendency to frenzy for the rest of the story. The storyteller must determine the chance of pregnancy, if it is possible at all. Everyone involved in the rite loses a temporarily point of Honor; the spirits who empower the rite, permissive though they may be, are still witnesses to the participants' transgression.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I remember this eye-roller where there's a rite in the revised Child of Gaia tribebook called, Rite of the Clouds and Rain. FATAL and Friends can explain it better than I can...

Ah, yes. Coomers on deck there.

I would like to draw attention to one specific passage you emphasized there:

Some Garou often enjoy multiple partners while performing this rite (...)

Really, now?

Let's check the Wiki, shall we?

Wolves are monogamous, mated pairs usually remaining together for life.

Ooooh, swing and a miss! Can't even get your fucking furry totem animal right. If they wanted crinos group sex, they should have given that one to the Bastet instead.

 

[Snekposter]

Meh. Only the Anansi will give you proper Big Tiddy Goth Spider GF. @Arachnophile will concur with me on that.

 

[Individualism Incarnate]

Aren't Anasi real skinny/small boobed?

 

[Snekposter]

Um... not really, no.

 

[ThatOneLurker]

More updates for my re-write of 5th lore, biggest change so far to address an internal paradox in the writting.

Caitiff/thin blood/dhampir-The Caitiff population has largely been decimated in the wake of the 2nd inquisition. The lack of clan support structure, abilities or even masquarade awareness ensured that Caitiff were the first up against the wall when the crackdown began to the point where early inquisition studies considered clans minority aberations . Remaining Caitiff are either typically countryside autarkis, Clan adoptees or Sabbat where pander cohesion and sect support provides them a fighting chance.
The thin Blood have fared even worse, The decimation of neonates and caitiff has effectively pushed the generations further back to an mean average of 11th in young vampires making their creation difficult bordering on impossible. Combined with a "kill on sight" standing orders in Both Sabbat and Carmarilla and the mass exections of the 2nd inquisition ensures thin bloods are borderline extinct. The few stragglers are oddly enough found either in Clan Tremere who have adopted them for blood magic research or are adopted in Mage/sorceror society as they are mistaken for hedge wizards.

Practical mechanics means all starter characters now begin at 12th before backgrounds. 3rd edition thin blood mechanics are still in place with Thauturgy simulating blood alchemy. Paths are limited to the extreme.

I don't know if I like the idea of the Thin-bloods being totally decimated. Yeah, no one is playing vampire to play a thin-blood, but I think they're a cool part of the setting and there's lots of room to tell weird stories about them and their powers and what happens when one fucks up. It's also worth noting depending on your game Thin-bloods don't necessarily have to be extremely high generation. There's also the fact that their being more "Half-vampire, half-human" means they can navigate the day world much better than any elder can. They're young, and they have the advantage of being much more connected to the world than most kindred.

Also, I feel they would be more useful to the Inquisition than anything. These are young licks who have been ostracized and bullied by literal monsters since the day they were created. These are exactly the kind of "informants" that the Inquisition can make use of before silently blowing their heads off after they've outlived their usefulness. I agree that Thin-bloods have essentially no networks and are basically on their own, but they're definitely not going to get completely slaughtered by hunters. They have powers and weaknesses that both kindred and humans can find useful—a certain thin-blood with the ability to walk in daylight can make a very, very useful messenger or powerful retainer while being strong enough to handle jobs ghouls can't. In that regard you can make thin-bloods the "real" dhampir style characters of the game. Some of the strengths of the vampire, and some of the strengths of a human. Just get rid of actual Dhampirs entirely since they're basically revenants and add nothing to the game. The thin-blood stands in the twilight, walking the line between kindred and human.

Caitiff can get fucked though. They're everything shitty about a thin-blood minus the lessened curse. They can't "cope" with daylight or do anything that the Prince can't just have a proper kindred do. So they're likely still ostracized, and that leaves interesting story potential, as it means the only organized group of Caitiff left would be Panders. Boom. You just got a hook for a Sabbat game. A couple of Caitiff on the run from First Light hear about the Sabbat's Panders and decide to join up. The Sabbat, hemorrhaging Lasombra neonates and ancilla, are happy to accept them as more canon fodder; maybe even sending this group off to fight in the Gehenna war—leading to some incredibly frightening and traumatic experiences on that front as these young licks go from being on the run from Alphabets armed to teeth, to vainly picking fights with Elder vampires and Methuselahs in the Middle East. Those that survive end up becoming the next generation of the Sabbat's hardened shock troops.

Besides I really don't like the idea of someone getting the idea to buy five dots of generation to bounce all the way down to 6th generation. Then again, I play V20 mostly. I'm not quite sure how that system would work in earlier editions. Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[knightlautrec]

I remember this eye-roller where there's a rite in the revised Child of Gaia tribebook called, Rite of the Clouds and Rain. FATAL and Friends can explain it better than I can...

It also had the gay lupus and Garou couple. Like...openly gay and fucking in their pack and nobody said any sort of shit? At all? Also gay lupus. A gay wolf. Like...okay. Whatever. Is that maybe a really rare instance? But for wolves it's an aberration - procreation above all because they're goddamn animals.

That tribebook is just cringe.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Oh ugh! That is just pathetic. Thank God I skipped out on the Camarilla and Anarch V5 books. As for the first part, I like Theo Bell, but you're right, he should be the one who was staked and thrown into a river, not Karsh. Also, I don't like how they've drawn him in V5...

Ver archivo adjunto 2011783

I always pictured Theo being played either by Wesley Snipes or a young Samuel L Jackson. He should look like a tough guy.

It's a minor thing but how are his ears pierced? He's two hunded years old and kindred bodies revert to death norms every night so cannot keep piercings.

I don't know if I like the idea of the Thin-bloods being totally decimated. Yeah, no one is playing vampire to play a thin-blood, but I think they're a cool part of the setting and there's lots of room to tell weird stories about them and their powers and what happens when one fucks up. It's also worth noting depending on your game Thin-bloods don't necessarily have to be extremely high generation. There's also the fact that their being more "Half-vampire, half-human" means they can navigate the day world much better than any elder can. They're young, and they have the advantage of being much more connected to the world than most kindred.

I could see that working but with the second inquisition the sheer scale of kindred neonate casualties is going to make it difficult to even create one eventually especially if we conceed caitiff are fucked.

 

[ThatOneLurker]

It's a minor thing but how are his ears pierced? He's two hunded years old and kindred bodies revert to death norms every night so cannot keep piercings.


I could see that working but with the second inquisition the sheer scale of kindred neonate casualties is going to make it difficult to even create one eventually especially if we conceed caitiff are fucked.

Any 13th generation vampire has a 50% chance of embracing a thin-blood, and the way that generations work is that typically, it takes around three centuries for new generations to mature (the 13th generation being thin-blooded in the dark ages, but are fully "matured" full vampires as of the 20th century and have been for at least a century or two). That'd make the 14th close to the "mature" age—especially since half their numbers are full kindred themselves. If anything, elevate the 14th generation to full maturity, though with the same innate 14th generation limits, and make the 15th generation only 1/2 thin-blooded as of 2021. The Inquisition has killed off a lot of the thin-bloods from 15th and 16th generations, but the 14th generation who were older used connections with kindred like Cross to survive and make themselves useful, and now that the Inquisition has been doing it's thing for about five years now—kindred are wising up to their tricks. Meaning this fully matured 14th generation is embracing again, thus creating new thin-bloods.

Doing this also moves the Thin-blooded metaplot away from the "habingers of the end" and more toward a cyclical thing that happens every so often as hinted at in BJD. If Gehenna is still very much a thing that is for sure going to happen very soon, then it still works because thin-bloods still hold the same position they've always had, it's just now the numbers are smaller and more balanced, and the thin-blooded trait has been bumped up a generation. The reason thin-bloods survive the Inquisition to an extent and the Caitiff don't is because the latter lack the innate advantages of kindred, but retain most of their weaknesses, are shunned and feared by all other kindred for the most part, and don't have any of the advantages that thin-bloods have such as not needing to feed as often or a lessened curse. A Caitiff's one advantage is they can theoretically pick any starting disciplines they want (but even then, this is up to the ST, and regardless they develop these disciplines much slower than other kindred). Caitiff don't have anything unique to them that could help them survive or make them useful. Thin-bloods do.

Thin-bloods could be agents for the Inquisition or movers for the Camarilla, Anarchs, etc. They've got a place. Caitiff are just kind of boned, like the Ravnos; because honestly if we're saying the week of nightmares happened they get fucked hard by the Inquisition and are basically exterminated. There's already only a handful of them left and the rest of kindred society hate them almost as much as they hate Caitiff.