Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker - Won an Oscar

[OttoWest]

I didn’t care for the director trying so hard to imitate King of Comedy and Taxi Driver. Did the joker have to be Rupert Pumpkin? Actually having DeNiro step into the old Jerry Lewis role to hammer the obvious home was terrible.

To be clear The King of Comedy is one of my all time favorite movies but between the constant recycling comic book characters and ripping off Scorsese’s OC’s, it seemed pretty stale and calculated.

Phoenix put in a great performance but the director and script were disappointing.

For me this was a case of a great performance in want of a great director. I felt like Phoenix was propelling the movie into the stratosphere, but Phillips just couldn’t keep up.

That’s not to say Phoenix overwhelmed the movie— it’s a very contained performance— but the film itself felt too referencial to other works rather than creating something unique. Phoenix was doing something genuine and original, that’s why the performance feels so singular; Phillips not so much, though I think the effort is clearly there. He lacks an auteurist sensibility, and this was a performance worthy of a more artful vision.

 

[ZMOT]

Yeah, Harley Quinn hanging off of him really helped him...

you mean the "gf" he only met when he was already the joker? or are you saying someone like harley would even be in the picture before he went down the rabbit hole?

 

[Pumpkin Girl IRL]

Phoenix was fucking amazing. Critics whining about incel violence are spineless faggots.

Only slight criticism I have is

Spoiler

explicitly showing the Wayne's death. With the film using direct violence in a relatively subdued way, the shot of a guy in a mask readying his gun outside the cinema would've done the trick much better. "

 

[Kyria the Great]

Just recently came back from The Joker with my folks and it is very, very easily going to be in my top films of the year and it is one where I think I want to see it again for repeat viewings to pick up on things that I have missed.

Spoiler: Spoilers

I especially love everything about Joaquin Phoenix as Arthur Fleck where this man from the very beginning you understand is not well. His laughter in the film for most of it is because of the mental trauma and his abusive past where he laughs uncontrollably where it is painful where you can very much see that pain on Arthur's face. The delusions of Arthur are especially saddened as his delusions are simply of those going to love and accept him, when in reality he is a creepy and gaunt man and is treated as such. It is just little by little in the film you see all the positive things taken away from his life whether by bad decisions on his part or from people and a system that doesn't care.

The way this film is shot is nothing short of perfect where Gotham is very much inspired by late 70s and early 80s New York where trash is piled up in the street, anger and depression being the main feelings of the public at large. I especially love how all the outside shots are so bleak, overcast, or at night until Arthur properly dons the Joker attire and him dancing down the stairs with the Sunlight properly out finds that he is finally happy in embracing the murderous and violent monster within. This is especially great at the very end where in Arkham he goes out of the interrogation room with the Sunshine down the hallways and his steps are with the blood of the lady who doesn't get his brand of "Comedy". The musical selection in this film is also spot on with the young Wayne Enterprise employee going to sing "Send in the Clowns" being reprised at the end with the Joker being all that is left of Arthur.

This movie also had excellent gut punches where he lost his gig as a clown dancing for children as one of the few things that would put a smile on people's faces. The one that was truly the one that hurt was that he found out he was adopted and his mother ignored the abuse he received as a child with him likely memoryholing it and him going to smother his mother to death was one that truly sad.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I didn’t care for the director trying so hard to imitate King of Comedy and Taxi Driver. Did the joker have to be Rupert Pumpkin? Actually having DeNiro step into the old Jerry Lewis role to hammer the obvious home was terrible.

To be clear The King of Comedy is one of my all time favorite movies but between the constant recycling comic book characters and ripping off Scorsese’s OC’s, it seemed pretty stale and calculated.

Phoenix put in a great performance but the director and script were disappointing.

For me this was a case of a great performance in want of a great director. I felt like Phoenix was propelling the movie into the stratosphere, but Phillips just couldn’t keep up.

That’s not to say Phoenix overwhelmed the movie— it’s a very contained performance— but the film itself felt too referencial to other works rather than creating something unique. Phoenix was doing something genuine and original, that’s why the performance feels so singular; Phillips not so much, though I think the effort is clearly there. He lacks an auteurist sensibility, and this was a performance worthy of a more artful vision.

I saw it as a definite ballet between the director and actor. It's a very fine balance but I do think it was balanced and they played off each other. The way he used the camera and watched Phoenix reminded me a lot of Herzog filming Klaus Kinski.

But I guess some people here would be like "Bah! Herzog couldn't keep up with Klaus. What a hack! Give this shit to a better filmmaker like Rian Johnson and then it would have truly been great!"

 

[Commander X]

Society, this says a lot about it.

 

[OttoWest]

I saw it as a definite ballet between the director and actor. It's a very fine balance but I do think it was balanced and they played off each other. The way he used the camera and watched Phoenix reminded me a lot of Herzog filming Klaus Kinski.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JrokMa1QlKo
But I guess some people here would be like "Bah! Herzog couldn't keep up with Klaus. What a hack! Give this shit to a better filmmaker like Rian Johnson and then it would have truly been great!"

Todd Phillips is no Werner Herzog.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Todd Phillips is no Werner Herzog.

You totally got my point, breh.

 

[OttoWest]

You totally got my point, breh.

Ver archivo adjunto 961590

Then explain it. You said people, specifically here, would complain about Herzog not keeping up with Kinski and suggest Rian Johnson(?!) as a replacement. My comment that you were responding to simply said that Phoenix’s talent isn’t matched by Phillip’s. That’s it.

 

[💗Freddie Freaker💗]

you mean the "gf" he only met when he was already the joker? or are you saying someone like harley would even be in the picture before he went down the rabbit hole?

A male bff would have been more helpful than a gf, anyways.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Then explain it. You said people, specifically here, would complain about Herzog not keeping up with Kinski and suggest Rian Johnson(‽) as a replacement. My comment that you were responding to simply said that Phoenix’s talent isn’t matched by Phillip’s. That’s it.

If you cannot understand the relationship between the actor and director and how the camera moves and blocking and all that then I don't think you'd ever get it TBQH. You just come off as a nit-picky faggot. One of those guys that just has to complain about something, you specifically not so much the other guy I quoted. Not that I enjoy starting a pissing contest over something so menial but I don't think you understand. Shit, you'd probably complain about Christian Bale "Overhwelming" American Psycho. I'm sorry but if you genuinely believe that Philips just turned on the camera and let Phoenix do his thing or simply couldn't keep up with him then I don't think we saw the same movie.

 

[Judge Holden]

Society, this says a lot about it.

FTFY

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Spoiler

The more I think about it, I wonder if Joker did actually murder his mother. What the odds nobody would walk into the hospital room and see what was happening? Then again if he did do it, that'll could add credence to the cops wanting to question him. The mom is found dead with signs of being smothered and going to the apartment, they discover the dead coworker.

Spoiler

Yeah, I question that as well given we don't hear the heart monitor flat line even though you can hear it going nuts from the adrenaline. It was eerie, but it might've slipped off or something lol. So either his mom did die that day (whether by his hand or not), since his co-workers were stopping by to check up on him for that, or he planned the murder. Given he slipped the scissors into his pocket before answering the door, he premeditated to kill whoever was at his door, and so may have planned who would be his victim.

 

[Bogliacci]

I think that is one reason why this movie should be a standalone feature. Both Joker and Burton's Batman established the character as being older than Bruce when the latter dons the cowl while other versions (both live action and animated) don't explicitly give Joker's age. That way people can presume he is either the same age or slightly older/younger than Batman.

Spoiler

The more I think about it, I wonder if Joker did actually murder his mother. What the odds nobody would walk into the hospital room and see what was happening? Then again if he did do it, that'll could add credence to the cops wanting to question him. The mom is found dead with signs of being smothered and going to the apartment, they discover the dead coworker.

We're specifically shown what are hallucinations and what aren't. A guy I know who went to it was wondering if he actually killed the 3 dicks and because everyone was reacting to it, we know it happened. People were reacting to his mother's death, and we were shown him going down the path of finding out about the abuse and trauma he suffered because of her neglect, that he did indeed kill her.

The only event that we aren't explicitly shown is a hallucination, but I think might have been, was when he was dancing on the car. He had a cut up face, with a big gash on the side of his head, but when it cuts to the hospital he's perfectly fine. It still could have happened, but imo that was him hallucinating that everyone was praising him and finally paying attention to him and giving him glory.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Spoiler

I think he definitely killed his mother. Remember, the city was cutting back on health care so totally plausible the nurses weren't paying attention to her. Plus there's no hinting that the other killings were in his mind. The only thing, in relation to the murders, being in his mind was the gang saving him and he dances for them.

 

[Notgoodwithusernames]

Society, this says a lot about it.

Calling it now the shooter will be a journalist

 

[captkrisma]

A male bff would have been more helpful than a gf, anyways.

So...like a Bob from the original Batman movie (who ends up nonchalantly shot), or Jonny Frost from the comics (also shot)?

 

[OttoWest]

If you cannot understand the relationship between the actor and director and how the camera moves and blocking and all that then I don't think you'd ever get it TBQH. You just come off as a nit-picky faggot. One of those guys that just has to complain about something, you specifically not so much the other guy I quoted. Not that I enjoy starting a pissing contest over something so menial but I don't think you understand. Shit, you'd probably complain about Christian Bale "Overhwelming" American Psycho. I'm sorry but if you genuinely believe that Philips just turned on the camera and let Phoenix do his thing or simply couldn't keep up with him then I don't think we saw the same movie.

Dude, chill. You love the movie, fine. I thought it was pretty good, also fine.

I don’t genuinely believe that at all, but you could’ve asked rather than just assume and projected a lot of weird shit just because we don’t agree on one aspect of a movie. Maybe we could’ve had, you know, an actual discussion on the relationship between actors and directors in films like this one. Maybe you have some insights on something specific to Phillips’s technique that might change my opinion. Who knows?

For the record, Bale in American Psycho is an all-time top five performance for me.

 

[Gordon Cole]

About to head out to see Joker for myself, but I spotted this on my timeline so I wanted to post it before I leave.

CNN on Twitter

“The true appeal of the new "Joker" movie lies in its invidious validation of the white-male resentment that helped bring President Trump to power, writes Jeff Yang for @CNNOpinion https://t.co/WcLJUAJ7Zb”

twitter.com

Clown World etc etc

And consider that CNN's owned by Time Warner too.

Imagine trying to sabotage your own product for clicks.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

And consider that CNN's owned by Time Warner too.

Imagine trying to sabotage your own product for clicks.

I assume it's intentional at this point. Like a weird, fucked up viral marketing strategy.