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Its gonna be really really really fucking funny when it turns out the twisted sword is just an easter egg OP weapon and has absolutely fucking nothing to do with either route or the plot at all.
So after finishing the Giga Queen fight in chapter 2, Ralsei goes into a cutscene explaining what would happening during the Roaring. And we get this.
None of these things look like the Titan we fought. I think what the plan with Asgore/Toriel and Undyne is is to turn them into another set of Roaring Knights, hence the 3 figures. This would represent the 3 symbols, The badge for Undyne, the tree for Rudy/Dess, and the Deltarune for Asgore.
think about this every time I'm forced to use a ReviveMint; I've got this constant thought in the back of my head that I've just used a really valuable resource that might have come in handy for whatever fight still lurks ahead at the end of the game.
Yeah, that's a huge problem with chapter 4 and 5, the game just ain't giving them anymore. I'm still low after fighting the Knight in chapter 3. Apparently I heard that you can farm them off the mizzles in chapter 4, but that requires advanced knowledge and can't do that now without replaying. Toby really needs to make them purchaseable going forward.
Its gonna be really really really fucking funny when it turns out the twisted sword is just an easter egg OP weapon and has absolutely fucking nothing to do with either route or the plot at all.
It's just the Black Shard in terms of stats, there's no reason to make you collect all the crystals and thornring just to get a reskin of a weapon you don't even get to physically see
I like Deltarune but I think any esoteric parallels are purely coincidental. Toby Fox writes at a high school level at the best of times so the most you could realistically apply are straightforward Abrahamic allegories since he was raised Christian.
However. Even if coincidental I still have seen some strange things concerning Deltarune and Christian mysticism, especially in light of the weird route's twists and turns. If anyone is interested, I'll do a dedicated long post on it in this thread.
Hmm....maybe the Knight is kinda like the sanctuary guardians of Earthbound: a lightner of some kind who Kris knows and is working with (begrudingly, due to the soul's presence greatly affecting him) to create a world of darkness where they can rule as gods across the universe, and acts as a living legend within the dark dimension or something (which would explain why King and Queen heard about the Knight and its accompanying power to create Dark Worlds despite being a darkner, but not actually anything else.) Kris is tasked to prevent the Vessel/us/the SOUL from uncovering the codes and unlocking the shelter, allowing it to purge the Dark Worlds forever, and only a select few know about the SOUL's existence it seems (the Holidays.)
Also the Titan is straight up just a bootleg colossal titan from AoT, just rehashed with ugly angel wings and eyes all over it. The star-shaped "mask" on its face is a cool touch at least.
EDIT: And another thing, looking up this troon "SaraJS", I found that he made this thing for Game Maker on how to make melee attacks for platform action games....and the character/sprites suggest to me that this was indeed his work (or really, the basis) on the platforming sections for Chapter 5: https://sarajs.itch.io/saras-melee-example
Looks a lot like Kris, doesn't it?
Today I got thinking about the overall story with Gaster and stuff and started to make a breakthrough, so let me present me newest theory:
Hijacked Game Theory
So, in UT, we all know that Gaster was the royal scientist who most likely fell into the code of the game. We know UT was a game since Flowey was using the Save/load mechanics, Asriel points it out during his fight, and Sans has written all this off as Time travel.
The theory is that there was another game on the machine named "Mantle", which has a hero fighting fighting against a demon. He rewrote the game and the reason we see UT characters in DR is because those are the people that Gaster is familiar with (Though I think Sans and Papyrus jumped games, I've always theorized that they were shards of Gaster). Remember, Ramb said that The Legend of Tenna wasn't the original version of the game.
The reason WE are playing DR is because something has gone wrong and the vessel we were supposed to be would've been put up in a messed up game, so Gaster inserted you earlier in the story into Kris to fix all this.
The reason the game is messed up is because the hero and the villain are still in there trying to get their game back and win the new game. That's what the Eram/shadow mantle demon is, the main villian trying to lead Kris to the weird route of the game, likely to finish off Gaster and take control over the game. The reason we need the shadow mantle to fight the Roaring Knight is that the knight isn't supposed to be defeated that earlier in the story, so Eram is giving it to you to bust Gaster's game, and of course Gaster appears during the knight's game over screen, so he's likely trying to use it as a learning experience and track down the Eram demon.
Meanwhile, the reason Gaster and Eram hate the Egg Man is because he's the hero of the game trying to get the game back. It's a 3 way battle between the three. Eram is sending his cats to hunt the eggman, and Gaster likely has his Goners monitoring everything.
As for Spamton, I think originally he was programmed to be an antagonist in chapter 3, but he made a deal with the Eram demon and left for the Cyberworld and do things. The big thing to remember here is that when Tenna listened to the phone he heard nothing. Well, Spamton fucked up along the way and likely learned about the Egg man and created/took the Pipises, which marked him for death by Eram. The Phone call Spamton's ex-friend listened had the Gaster sound on the line. I think that was Gaster warning Spamton what was about to happen, likely trying to turn him into a Goner eventually. Remember: Spamton has way too much information on the direction the story is going talking about the Angel and heaven.
I think the main route of the game will just have you fight the Angel and then happy ending, nothing revealed about Gaster or Eram, but when you start digging into the eggs and weird route, that's when the story will shift to dealing with this behind the scenes stuff. I know Gaster won't be in the main story cause John Normie playing the game doesn't even know who Dess is, let alone Gaster, and Toby likely won't want to muddy the story up with this obscure character unless you know where to find the eggs and shadow crystals and stuff where you likely know who gaster is.
The eggs are not too important, as they're useless in the Deltarune version of the game, while they are not too unimportant and will be used as evidence later as they prove that Deltarune is a hijacked game.
The eggs are not too important, as they're useless in the Deltarune version of the game, while they are not too unimportant and will be used as evidence later as they prove that Deltarune is a hijacked game.
I'm saying it'd take 2 months under the assumption that streams were limited to 1-2 days a week. But it also depends on how long the streams are, so idk.
I still feel the need, though, to stress that Deltarune has much more replay value than Undertale.
Undertale has two significantly different routes, but the "incredibly wild and different special endings" are mostly just a new small dialogue by sans and whatever else you miss by ticking one less "spare this monster" box through your failed Pacifist route. That's hardly replayable, it's a slog for very short sans epilogues you can just look up on youtube. Same for most of the secrets and flavor text- it's a matter of making sure to call Papyrus or Papyrus/Undyne in every possible room, but you can do that all in one playthrough. You can always walk back to talk to new NPCs or whatever.
In the face of Deltarune having "only 1 ending" (setting aside that there are clearly at least 2 routes). There's a deeper system to personalizing scenes depending on your choices that is written into your save data. And items/equipment are much more diverse, lending room for exploring different playstyles and challenge runs- for instance:
Playing through most of the game with Silver Cards and Dealmaker equipped to maximize the money you gain between chapters
Stealing Noelle's watch (by unequipping it from her) to increase the length of a bullet pattern
Making choices on what type of weapons/armors you get from beating the secret bosses, like Jevil's weapon reducing the cost of Rude Buster, or Spamton's Puppet Scarf making Ralsei as viable for FIGHTing as Kris and Susie.
Additionally, Chapter 5's armor/weapon rewards are even more varied, giving you access to 3 of 6 special weapons/armors to choose from, that significantly impact gameplay in different ways.
Item fusing recipes that are introduced in subsequent chapters that encourage new ways to prepare between chapters, by holding onto items like the Frayed Bowtie, or Glow Wristband
All of this, on top of the separation of Chapters with both normal saves and completion data, meaning you aren't locked out of rewinding just 1-2 chapters' worth of progress.
There is so much packed into these chapters not only to accommodate the different types of players, but to offer different ways to experiment on replays. Undertale doesn't have much of that. It's already a much bigger and more complex game that encourages replayability beyond just the two or three overarching routes it's foreshadowing.
There is so much packed into these chapters not only to accommodate the different types of players, but to offer different ways to experiment on replays. Undertale doesn't have much of that. It's already a much bigger and more complex game that encourages replayability beyond just the two or three overarching routes it's foreshadowing.
He's blatantly just based on Ares( Varik in the halloween hack) Who's a protag in another video game toby played to the point it's a common thing brought up I see even when looking him up when I remembered his name lmao
There's a deeper system to personalizing scenes depending on your choices that is written into your save data. And items/equipment are much more diverse, lending room for exploring different playstyles and challenge runs
However, as mentioned earlier, you can start playing any chapter without "Completion Data." When you do so, the game will be in a specific "Default State":
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A number of characters will be RECRUITed and the game will assume you have never been unnecessarily violent. (However, not all characters will be recruited, so some activities may not be unlocked.)
You will begin with no usable Dark World items or Dark Dollars.
The characters' default equipment will be a mix of the equipment found in the previous two Chapters.
My goal is that if someone wants to casually replay a Chapter from scratch, or if they start playing on a brand-new platform, there's no hurdle to jumping back into the game. Normally, it would be really discouraging to have to start a long game like this over from the beginning... I hope this encourages many players to play more lightheartedly.
It seems evident to me that Fox is more interested in making Deltarune a novel experience rather than an actual game with solid RPG design, pretty much confirming everyone's suspicions raised in this thread. I think the better word to use here is the gameplay being diverse more so than deep. Moving on to Chapter 5. First, the elephant in the room.
What kind of Chapter is Chapter 5?
In Chapter 4, we saw dark clouds on the horizon…
That’s why, let’s not look there for now. Let’s turn around and watch the sun, before it goes down completely.
Let’s smile again.
Let’s have one more fun adventure, okay?
...
In my opinion, it fits well in the overall story of the game.
When the chapter was first teased to the public. (Autumn 2025 Newsletter. There is a proper progress report further down the newsletter, but no storyline teases):
Instead, let's talk about Chapter 5!
Some of you might be wondering what kind of Chapter it is...
Well, right now, there is no reason to tell you that...
Both of us like surprises, right?
If I think of everything in the Chapter, there is very little I would like to share...
That being said, as an act of goodwill, I would like to spoil one optional Castle Town scene. This scene assumes you have seen the Special Room in Chapter 4...
Coupled with what Undertale shows us, I think Fox prefers a character-driven approach in his stories (to his own detriment, as already pointed out by others). With Deltarune, this basically means:
Act 1: Introduction, setting up stuff and teasing a bunch of mysteries. (Chapter 1-2)
Act 2: Developing character relationships, teasing even more mysteries. The plot begins to splinter into multiple routes. (Chapter 3-4-5)
Act 3: Resolving the character arcs. There are reveals, but they will likely be route-dependant, requiring players to beat the game multiple times to understand everything. Some mysteries are left up to audience imagination. (Chapter 6-7)
Lastly, I want to offer my perspective on the development of Deltarune post-Chapter 3+4.
Notably, Fox has been transparent on Deltarune's progress, and since Chapter 3, the game has a non-linear development pipeline. Below is Chapter 5's process (Autumn 2025 newsletter):
And here's a summary of Deltarune's development since Chapter 5 was first mentioned to the public.
Winter 2023: Chapter 3's Japanese translation was being worked on. The team has set an internal deadline for Chapter 4, helped by the newly-hired producer. "Minor work" being done on Chapter 5. (For some reason, Fox categorized this as Winter 2024. I suspect that's why he later titled Winter 2024 as Holiday 2024 instead.)
Summer 2024: Chapter 4 approached the finish line. Some members of the team began drafting Chapter 5.
Autumn 2024: Chapter 5 entered full production. Chapter 3+4's post-production process (QA, Japanese translation, porting etc.) began.
Winter 2024: Chapter 1 + 2 + 3 received bugfixes. Chapter 4's first translation draft completed. Newer hires continued to work on Chapter 5.
Chapter 1-4 ReleaseAnnouncements: "Game is launching in June on multiple platforms, and will also be a Switch 2 launch title". Each platform also has unique perks. For example, only the PS versions have achievements, and the game will play a special cutscene if you didn't get any of them. There are no mentions of Chapter 5 in both posts.
Autumn 2025: Chapter 5's cutscene and boss designs are done.
Winter 2025: Chapter 5 post-production (Japanese translation, testing) began, with most of the content fully functional. 8-4 and Fox had been working hard on script annotations and translation notes. Chapter 6 was expected to began development in a few months.
Chapter 5's Release Announcement: Chapter 5 will be launching in June. Chapter 6's gameplay is mostly completed. Chapter 7's development may began development before 2026 ends.
As shown, there are two major factors preventing each chapter from releasing faster. Deltarune is on multiple console platforms, and they typically have a vetting process before developers can ship public updates. Taking also Fox's hyperfixation on Japanese into account, and you have a multiple-month delay after each chapter's done, even with multiple chapters being handled at once.
Chapter 6 is noted as "easier to make than others", so we can assume it follows the same pipeline and will feature minimal gameplay changes. In fact, the reported gimmicks have already been shown in previous chapters and the boss fight was being completed.
Unless things change down the line, Chapter 6 will likely have the same length as Chapter 5, considering that major work on it has been done, with Chapter 7 being started soon.
Since Chapter 3+4, Fox has also shipped "story hotfixes" to address major issues around the releases. First was the infamous thorn ring scene in Weird Route, and now new "lore reveals". There likely will be similar patches for Chapter 6+ addressing such surface criticisms / controversies if Fox continued to not deliver on what he promised his audience.
I suspect that at worst, Chapter 7 will be shipped in 2028.
It seems evident to me that Fox is more interested in making Deltarune a novel experience rather than an actual game with solid RPG design, pretty much confirming everyone's suspicions raised in this thread. I think the better word to use here is the gameplay being diverse more so than deep.
That system is just in place in case someone has to switch over to a different console or lost save data from the previous chapters. It doesn't mean there isn't deliberate hidden progress you can accumulate in save files, it's just additional accommodation. That reminds me, there's an item you can get called the Ancient Chocolate that's basically meant for those jumping in to Chapter 4 without using old completion data...
