Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Milkmaid Man]

bet if he made the last two chapters as DLCs these people would buy it

If he did that, Steam better be willing to refund me because hell if I pay more in the face of blatant false advertising. What really gets me though is the excuse of "one last fun adventure before shit really hits the fan" is complete bullshit for several reasons.

First and foremost is how that could not only have been said for Chapter 3, but that chapter actively moved the plot forward despite being entirely filler because the goal was specifically to make you burn time. And it still managed to meaningfully advance Ralsei, Susie, and Kris's characterization in addition to doing a significantly better job at conveying the gravity of Deltarune's story taking a darker turn after the Roaring Knight appeared.

Secondly, Chapter 5 failed to adequately follow up on what happened in Chapter 4 and it makes Susie feel dissonant with what happened earlier in the game. It doesn't feel like an organic continuation, it feels like an abridged fanfiction. Even Chapter 2 did a better job after Chapter 1 because at least there, the stakes weren't fully realized yet

Third, good stories don't need to take breaks. And with how Deltarune has only 7 chapters, realistically it should take as few breaks as possible both to avoid the consumer getting bored and because there's still a lot of story that has yet to be properly communicated. Sure, people need to take breaks every now and again, but that's the thing. No self-respecting human is going to play the whole game in only one sitting, leave that for speedrunners. And they sure as hell won't care about the story, they're just trying to go fast.

Fourth (and last for now), I and others would argue Chapter 5 is already showing what bad pacing can do with too little happens and there isn't enough to break up the monotony. Breaks may be nice for really long shows, but even then, they need to flesh out what's already been established. All Chapter 5 did was repeat what was already known for the most part, sacrifice Asgore to the shadow realm and denying him anything meaningful later, and fag up an already sloppily written game with self-fellating garbage about lesbianism and they/themdom.

As it stands, Chapter 5 is just going to be a letdown that fails to leave any meaningful impact and anyone who can't see that now, I hope they experience the worst of buyer's remorse later down in their lives.

 

[Irrational Exuberance]

Alphys has been giving kids used needles and drugs in the alleyway to try and fix their attention spans. The secret boss of chapter 6 is heroin

So that's where all the marauders have been coming from...

 

[Hideous K]

I'd just like to mention that HDG is so rancid and disturbing that it's banned off of all the main tranny subs on reddit.

The same can be said for another infamous kink disguise as a fanfic, anyone remember the The Conversion Bureau?

 

[harmy.kook]

I like TF2

All you niggas are masochists.

Trve chuddy perspective would be labelling the game troonslop and not playing it (or playing a bit and then dumping it).

I like TF2

How ironic.

Bonus points for the locked profile.

 

[Cucktry Roads]

The final boss is a giant enemy from the prophecy that the game's been building up for a good while and it's not even that hard.
The way they were built up it was like meeting one would be instant death.

That was my main problem with chapter 4. You have this giant apocalyptic level event in it that the story is building up to, but we see that there is a way to deal with the problem. So the question is, where do we go from here? Only way to escalate this is multiple titans.

But we got a filler chapter where the titans aren't even mentions.

People were expecting this to be "the Asgore chapter", but as it turns out, the emotional core of the chapter is really Ralsei and Flowery. Asgore is actually kind of unimportant. So that mismatch in expectation leads to people thinking Asgore was straight up written badly this chapter.

And that's the problem. If the Flowery and Ralsei drama didn't exist, what would be missing from the story? Nothing cause it added nothing and went no where. There's a problem if a 10 hour chapter gets released and 10 lines of dialog about a fucking cat that's been stalking us for years, which is added 2 weeks after launch, advances the plot more than 10 hours.

There's 7 chapters to represent 7 days of a week,

Reminder: Chapter 3 takes place the night between day 2 and 3. Chapter 4 is day 3.

I recall there's some subtext that she wants to kill herself and it's all very "boo hoo woe is me".

You are correct. If you call Undyne in the garbage dump, she tells you that this spot was where she met alphys, that she walked up to her and she looks scared while looking into the black void, which means she was about to jump in and kill herself. Also, at the end of the true lab when she stops the amalgamates, she says this, which implies she may have been debating killing herself.

Fourth (and last for now), I and others would argue Chapter 5 is already showing what bad pacing can do with too little happens and there isn't enough to break up the monotony. Breaks may be nice for really long shows, but even then, they need to flesh out what's already been established. All Chapter 5 did was repeat what was already known for the most part, sacrifice Asgore to the shadow realm and denying him anything meaningful later, and fag up an already sloppily written game with self-fellating garbage about lesbianism and they/themdom.

The festival was a break. But Toby decided to double down and make the dark world a break too. He really should have fucking switched chapter 4 and 5.

 

[justakiwi69]

Its really funny that more and more youtubers are coming out with videos saying "Huh, chapter 5 was actually kind of shit wasn't it?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=88qzOSA6y0E
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZYvJSoZV8E4
And the comments are always filled with the same brand of niggercattle going "omg you didnt gettt itttttt, you only care about the plottttttt its actually a last fun adventureeeeeeeeeeee".

As if caring about the plot in a story based game that literally sold itself on the mystery is somehow a bad thing, and the same mongrel tier excuse of "one last fun adventure" as if we aren't in the third act of the story with literally 70% of the game behind us and the literal world about to end in 2 days unless we stop it. These fags would literally be happy if toby shit in their mouths.

I'm just happy that chapter 5 was so shit it shattered the illusion for a ton of people and people are actually talking against it instead of blindly praising it and ignoring its flaws. I get the feeling toby has been in an echo chamber of praise for so long its distorted his perception of the game's quality.

honestly the only way to make it better now is for chapter 67 to be a GOT season 8 tier shitty finale

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Some comments on one of the videos:

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

Everytime I bare witness to this blugger I'm filled with tremendous rage.

They gave him a neckbeard though which is pretty funny since even they know xhe will never be a real woman

 

[Usean Allied Forces]

Everytime I bare witness to this blugger I'm filled with tremendous rage.

Blugger sounds like a slur for terminids

 

[electrician's apprentice]

This thread might the only good place to talk about this game
I saw a Xeet of someone wishing the secret bosses were more like chapter 1 and 2 where they used their crystals but they had to dress up with stuff like "I STILL REALLY LIKE ALL THE BOSSES PLEASE THE GAME IS FUCKING PERFECT THIS IS JUST MY OPINION OK!!"
And guess what people still shat on him for "not getting the game" or just mocking his opinion
It's depressing to see honestly you can even have a discussion about the game anymore

 

[Newcomer 42]

AfiniHug

Troons once again being degenerates. Does this count as early porn introduction for the children looking this up?

 

[Puck Clown]

Its really funny that more and more youtubers are coming out with videos saying "Huh, chapter 5 was actually kind of shit wasn't it?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=88qzOSA6y0E
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZYvJSoZV8E4
And the comments are always filled with the same brand of niggercattle going "omg you didnt gettt itttttt, you only care about the plottttttt its actually a last fun adventureeeeeeeeeeee".

As if caring about the plot in a story based game that literally sold itself on the mystery is somehow a bad thing, and the same mongrel tier excuse of "one last fun adventure" as if we aren't in the third act of the story with literally 70% of the game behind us and the literal world about to end in 2 days unless we stop it. These fags would literally be happy if toby shit in their mouths.

I'm just happy that chapter 5 was so shit it shattered the illusion for a ton of people and people are actually talking against it instead of blindly praising it and ignoring its flaws. I get the feeling toby has been in an echo chamber of praise for so long its distorted his perception of the game's quality.

Setting aside the plot and pacing issues, if Chapter 5 was supposed to be "One last fun adventure before shit gets real", did it even accomplish that?

To me, a decompression chapter isn't just for the audience, but also for the characters. Having our main cast share one last happy moment before things start to get dramatic.

The festival was mostly a Suselle moment with small bits of Krusie or maybe Kriselle here and there. Considering how little Noelle has appeared up to this point outside of the Weird Route, the Suselle moments feel less like one last happy moment, and more like speedrunning Susie and Noelle's relationship before it becomes a point of conflict in Chapter 6.

Outside Flowery, we have the 6 flowers to deal with. That's WAY more side characters than there were in previous chapters, which also causes the issue of needing to give all 6 enough screen time to get you to care about them. Screentime devoted to characters that, by the game's own admission, will not show up in the future.

Ralsei was more about hating Flowery and being worried about the Prophecy. He doesn't seem to be having a lot of "Fun" in this "Fun adventure". Susie spends most of the chapter Noelle-rotted. Even though Noelle isn't present, she still rather think about her than hanging out with the friends that are literally standing next to her.

Gameplay-wise, I suppose the platforming segments were fine, and the fight with Pink and Flowery were decent. The chapter's not all devoid of Fun Gang moments, but there's so little of it, with more time devoted to the flowers and Noelle.

Maybe its just me, but I don't think this chapter accomplishes being a "Calm before the storm" moment. Ironically, its because the chapter was so busy vagueposting and setting up a relationship that's only going to be important in the next chapter that I think it failed at just giving the Fun Gang a break and have them spend one last happy moment together.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Or it could mean absofuckinglutely nothing and the knights just a titan that obtained some level of sentience. Maybe someone stabbed a thing with a knife and it became a sentient dark fountain.

Is this not literally the plot of samurai jack? Aku was formless evil until someone shot it with a flaming arrow and the harmful intentions of a weapon meant to kill/destroy touching it gave it sentience.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Honestly, I'd almost be willing to say that the Dark Worlds for Chapter 4 and 5 were probably meant to be switched but the Church Dark World was done first so got released as Ch. 4 with some edits.
The fact that the church being trashed had 0 consequences for example. Or the fact there was a Titan fight where shithead Ralsei refused to use FireShock.
Ch4 seems like the story turning point so going back to hoohoo haha bullshit nothing happens immediately after is stupid

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Is this not literally the plot of samurai jack? Aku was formless evil until someone shot it with a flaming arrow and the harmful intentions of a weapon meant to kill/destroy touching it gave it sentience.

Not really "formless" per-se his form was just a kind of primordial evil goo in space that shot around like a comet, but yes the arrow shot at him snapped him to reality after he got his ass whooped by the three gods and crashed on Earth, which allowed him to become sentient and take an intentional form.

Iirc he actually possesses a dead tree at the crash site, hence why he always makes those creaking noises when he moves.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Maybe its just me, but I don't think this chapter accomplishes being a "Calm before the storm" moment. Ironically, its because the chapter was so busy vagueposting and setting up a relationship that's only going to be important in the next chapter that I think it failed at just giving the Fun Gang a break and have them spend one last happy moment together.

The main issue imo is that out of 5 chapters so far, fuckign FOUR of them have been the gang "decompressing spending happy moments toogether".

Like, bitch what the fuck are you taking a break from, with the sole except of a SINGLE chapter every single other chapter has been the gang spending time in a literal daycare center and the characters explicitly have fun in all those chapters, prefering being there to their real lives. What, you need a break FROM the break?

Not really "formless" per-se his form was just a kind of primordial evil goo floating in space, but yes the arrow shot at him snapped him to reality and crashing on Earth allowed him to become sapient and take an intentional form.
Ver archivo adjunto 9275476

He crashed to earth first and possessed a dead forest, he became sentient after someoen tried to burn the forest down.

Iirc he actually possesses a dead tree at the crash site, hence why he always makes those creaking noises when he moves.

Oh that's cute I didn't knew that.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Oh that's cute I didn't knew that.

I mean I don't know if it's 100% confirmed that's why, but he took the form of trees and he makes creaky tree noises. Makes sense to me.

But on the subject of the Knight, the idea that the Knight isn't anyone and is just a titan that gained a mind would probably be the lamest possible explanation Toby could go with.

Like the game teases you about who the knight is throughout the story, even outright blueballing you from seeing the knight take off it's helmet in Ch 4 when Kris actively stops you from seeing their face. Why the fuck would he do that if it's just a random shadow-being?

It also raises the question of how the hell a primordial mindless darkner can gain a mind from nothing or exist outside of a dark world, but maybe the Knight's armor is made of shadow-crystals and wearing it allows them to exist outside the fountains because the SC keep their form between worlds idfk. If the Titans can become sentient and are only mindless right when they're born then that means Ralsei and the gang essentially killed a fucking baby at the end of Ch 4 lmao.

The only explanation I could think of to explain away all the Dess setup and the very clear deer influences is if it was some kind of Alex Mercer situation where Kris and whoever else tried to revive Dess but this... thing just kind of took her place and absorbed her identity as it's own instead.

 

[Goodstuff Goose]

Personally I will only start shitting on the game hard when it's fully complete and hasn't resolved its plot threads and mysteries properly or in a satisfactory manner.

Though I do think that the longer they wait, the harder it gets to resolve things properly.

 

[Nameless One]

Ver archivo adjunto 9272796

I hate this. It's so forced and contrived. Don't do that to him. @TobyFox DONT DO THAT TO HIM

 

[ita]

I still keep thinking about chapter 5 and how it was so packed with references that it exceeded the point where it became hacky. Yes there’s always been references but many of these were so blatant and out of place that it’s just demanding the audience laugh because they know reference too. Here’s some that I can think of off the top of my head:

• An Umamusume joke on an impromptu racetrack in CastleTown
• A Roblox joke (ugh) by the mouse cursor guy; I will at least give his particular line some minor kudos because it’s actually alluding to the secret boss of the chapter
• Wololo (Age of Empires) guys in the CastleTown church. This one was subtle and easily missable though so I personally don’t see harm in it, but it’s still another reference to add to the pile
• A few anime references in the CastleTown dojo fight including DBZ
• Yellow having a “family guy death pose” meme sprite
• Seth herself is a reference to another JRPG
• One of Seth’s attacks with words literally just spelling out “FAMILY GUY FUNNY MOMENTS”
• Yet another family guy reference with Yellow’s Cheerios spelling the message “ooooo”
• “We’re going to beat you to death with hammers for your crimes” in a Seth cafe dialogue. I hate this one so much it’s unreal. It doesn’t even make any sense outside of it being a reference so that’s literally the only purpose the line serves!
• Ralsei smoking weed in his dialogue with Yellow
• Seth and Aqua reenacting Ratatouille in another cafe dialogue
• The (poorly executed) trial sequences having the Fun Gang dress as Ace Attorney characters
• Ralsei disappearing into the bushes like Homer Simpson before Kris and Susie are ejected out of the dark world
• The Fun Gang referring to “I choo choo choose you” from the Simpsons on a small train in Orange’s platforming section