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- 21 de Sep, 2024
Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion
- Iniciador del tema Len Kagamoney
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- Registrado
- 10 de Oct, 2020
I've put together a timeline of what happened to spamton in my head. I'll type it out when I get home tonight, but it looks like he was being hunted and was trying to find a way out.
- Registrado
- 25 de Abr, 2023
Imagine falling for Toby's vagueposting.
Again.
This is way worse than the Shadow Crystals being added after the SURVEY PROGRAM. Never before has there been a fucking monologue full of bullshit theorybait added after a chapter has been concluded. In case you needed proof that Toby's just making this up as he goes along, look no further than it being two weeks after the chapter launched.
If this was ever story critical in any way and someone just forgot to add it in, he would have patched this inside a few days.
I guarantee you he wrote this on the fly, somewhat tied it to previous characters, and shipped it to satisfy theoryschizos. And if that's the case, then there is absolutely no way he'll tie it into the story in any meaningful way.
If he's willing to do this, then get ready to play Alteruned coming in 2045 = the true and honest Deltarune.
Again.
This is way worse than the Shadow Crystals being added after the SURVEY PROGRAM. Never before has there been a fucking monologue full of bullshit theorybait added after a chapter has been concluded. In case you needed proof that Toby's just making this up as he goes along, look no further than it being two weeks after the chapter launched.
If this was ever story critical in any way and someone just forgot to add it in, he would have patched this inside a few days.
I guarantee you he wrote this on the fly, somewhat tied it to previous characters, and shipped it to satisfy theoryschizos. And if that's the case, then there is absolutely no way he'll tie it into the story in any meaningful way.
If he's willing to do this, then get ready to play Alteruned coming in 2045 = the true and honest Deltarune.
- Registrado
- 10 de Oct, 2020
I 100% believe this new lore was added in reaction to feedback that the chapter didn't move the story forward any and the secret boss was a nothing burger disconnected from the story completely. I think toby decided it would be fine revealing now that there are multiple friends and they're hunters, especially for eggs. I think Toby never intended for mew mew to be this important and changed the story because of that feedback.
Shamino
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 6 de Abr, 2021
watched that pokémon furry ass guy ch2 critique and among the hit or miss takes he had, the dumber one was about Susie.
Her whole ch1 edgy personality was a facade as a defense mechanism to the perceived rejection she got from the world, her whole concealed eyes sprites was to convey a mask that slips often during ch1 events. At the end ch1 She's encouraged to feel safer around Kris and the darkners so ends up dropping the act immediately to reveal her true self. As a parallel, Ralsei does the same, by taking off the hat he embraces more being a sissy people pleaser than a fatidic spellcaster.
As a foil, the king performs as the kind of person Susie wouldve eventually be if she was pushed further toward actually becoming her facade.
Her whole ch1 edgy personality was a facade as a defense mechanism to the perceived rejection she got from the world, her whole concealed eyes sprites was to convey a mask that slips often during ch1 events. At the end ch1 She's encouraged to feel safer around Kris and the darkners so ends up dropping the act immediately to reveal her true self. As a parallel, Ralsei does the same, by taking off the hat he embraces more being a sissy people pleaser than a fatidic spellcaster.
As a foil, the king performs as the kind of person Susie wouldve eventually be if she was pushed further toward actually becoming her facade.
- Registrado
- 29 de Mar, 2019
When all this is done, Toby should just cut the Gordian knot he created and release a "FULL AUTHORATIVE SERIES BIBLE" which lays out everything in black and white and which is guaranteed to piss at least part of his fanbase off.
- Registrado
- 26 de Oct, 2019
First one would be worse. If he could absolutely ensure we didn't have entire chapters full of traggot shit, I would wait.
- Registrado
- 3 de Abr, 2019
I had a interesting thought and figured I would share it here:
Toby mentions how the intro of Deltarune was very deliberately made to evoke Undertale. He specifically reused characters people were already familiar with, and sprinkles references here and there so the association is obvious. Undertale was a subversion of RPGs, so what if Deltarune is meant to be a subversion of Undertale? I came to this idea when I was considering how this would be accomplished. How could the narrative work in a way that causes recruiting everyone to have the worst possible ending and thats when I realized it. When you recruit a darkner, you're taking them as an object physically to the room in the light world where that fountain is. So the entire culmination of your adventures are being kept in this one spot, even the darkners you meet.
What if the school burns down, or some similar disaster happens in the last chapter, and everything inside that unused room, is irrevocably lost. Notice how you don't "kill" anyone if you choose to fight, they just run away and refuse to go with you to castle town. Meaning the whole point is that sometimes things are better left as they are instead of trying to force the best ending. Darkners are literally mundane objects in the light world, even if you opened the dark world that darkner originally came from, they wouldn't be there if they were destroyed in the light world. This is also shown when the Knight kills Tenna and Flowery and their physical object in the light world is broken, and presumably can't be brought back. The loss of all the objects that are darkners would be impactful to everyone, during the game, you're stealing shit from around hometown and stashing it in your secret base. Some of those things don't even belong to any of the characters involved. It would also be very in line with subverting the trope of "Protagonist is allowed to steal from people's houses with zero repercussions".
I always had a feeling that there was going to be some rugpull like in Undertale, and this may be it. Like digging deeper, or trying to get more out of Deltarune outside of one playthrough causes things to end up worse. Maybe its just a cope theory, but I feel like I'm the only one seeing the fanbase run headlong like Charlie Brown towards Toby holding a football and I just know he's gonna pull that shit away like Lucy at the last second. I think Toby is trying to put a big red flag on it with the Weird Route, letting you directly do something and see how it causes things to end up worse, its meant to be a microcosm of the narrative as a whole. People say it would be too mean, or not like Toby, but this is the guy that made a game where you can commit genocide as a specific story, or has a route that ivolves two teenagers drowning themselves in a lake to "escape", so I wouldn't put it past him. I know people here don't have the highest opinion of Toby, but do you really think he would just go with the same gimmick twice? I predict its going to be a message like "Obsessing over one story, and trying to get the "best ending" isn't healthy. Play it once, and move on and make your own stories" . Getting the happily ever after ending after doing a "pacifist" route, and indy games having alternative "secret" endings was someting popularized by Toby, so I never believed that Deltarune was going to do the same thing as Undertale did because its been played out. How more appropriate would it be to bookend the phenomenon of subversive secret game routes by the guy that started it all flipping the concept on its head like he did with RPGs.
Toby mentions how the intro of Deltarune was very deliberately made to evoke Undertale. He specifically reused characters people were already familiar with, and sprinkles references here and there so the association is obvious. Undertale was a subversion of RPGs, so what if Deltarune is meant to be a subversion of Undertale? I came to this idea when I was considering how this would be accomplished. How could the narrative work in a way that causes recruiting everyone to have the worst possible ending and thats when I realized it. When you recruit a darkner, you're taking them as an object physically to the room in the light world where that fountain is. So the entire culmination of your adventures are being kept in this one spot, even the darkners you meet.
What if the school burns down, or some similar disaster happens in the last chapter, and everything inside that unused room, is irrevocably lost. Notice how you don't "kill" anyone if you choose to fight, they just run away and refuse to go with you to castle town. Meaning the whole point is that sometimes things are better left as they are instead of trying to force the best ending. Darkners are literally mundane objects in the light world, even if you opened the dark world that darkner originally came from, they wouldn't be there if they were destroyed in the light world. This is also shown when the Knight kills Tenna and Flowery and their physical object in the light world is broken, and presumably can't be brought back. The loss of all the objects that are darkners would be impactful to everyone, during the game, you're stealing shit from around hometown and stashing it in your secret base. Some of those things don't even belong to any of the characters involved. It would also be very in line with subverting the trope of "Protagonist is allowed to steal from people's houses with zero repercussions".
I always had a feeling that there was going to be some rugpull like in Undertale, and this may be it. Like digging deeper, or trying to get more out of Deltarune outside of one playthrough causes things to end up worse. Maybe its just a cope theory, but I feel like I'm the only one seeing the fanbase run headlong like Charlie Brown towards Toby holding a football and I just know he's gonna pull that shit away like Lucy at the last second. I think Toby is trying to put a big red flag on it with the Weird Route, letting you directly do something and see how it causes things to end up worse, its meant to be a microcosm of the narrative as a whole. People say it would be too mean, or not like Toby, but this is the guy that made a game where you can commit genocide as a specific story, or has a route that ivolves two teenagers drowning themselves in a lake to "escape", so I wouldn't put it past him. I know people here don't have the highest opinion of Toby, but do you really think he would just go with the same gimmick twice? I predict its going to be a message like "Obsessing over one story, and trying to get the "best ending" isn't healthy. Play it once, and move on and make your own stories" . Getting the happily ever after ending after doing a "pacifist" route, and indy games having alternative "secret" endings was someting popularized by Toby, so I never believed that Deltarune was going to do the same thing as Undertale did because its been played out. How more appropriate would it be to bookend the phenomenon of subversive secret game routes by the guy that started it all flipping the concept on its head like he did with RPGs.
Última edición:
- Registrado
- 17 de Dic, 2019
Saw the video as well and pretty good point by point of why it's gone downhill and honestly hits it in the head when it comes to deducing that this is due to having a writing team (though he does not address that being coombrained trannies is a big part of why they suck).
Also, it's a critical video that doesn't give me second hand embarrasment...
Looking for critical videos found this faggot
And almost clicked out the moment he said that "Sussie and Noelle is one of the best written confession scenes I have had the privilege to read" showed me how much of a mental midget the average Deltarune fan is. This is a faggot that is supposedly publishing a book which makes me think he has some sort of education oriented into that. With that background he could say that phrase without an ounce of irony should tell you volumes about how BAD things are. Also "no, game is hard!"
SanelyInsane403
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 12 de Feb, 2026
Your observation is missing the forest for the trees. Recruits clearly help you right from Chapter 1 where King gets overthrown by everyone you spare. Ralsei outright says "You might not find the result... favorable." regarding if you want to fight anyone you can, validated by Jackenstein dying.
If I had to guess, your recruits will likely brutally fight against the Knight and give you an advantage of some sorts if you have everyone.
- Registrado
- 25 de Abr, 2023
I fully agree with the rest of your post. But I don't think Toby decided to "reveal" anything relating to FRIEND or eggs. I think he "made up" some bullshit to make it seem chapter 5 had something going on.
People like to think Toby has a huge mental corkboard of interconnected story beats and mysteries. I did too, before chapter 5. But I think the truth is that he just makes it up as he goes along. I think the only real thing that he has figured out is the ending of Deltarune. Not how it gets there, not how it's developed or paced, just the ending.
Ignoring schizotheories, how else do you explain Susie cheering up immediately after chapter 3's ending? How about in 5 when she got over Flowery dying immediately? Or most egregiously, her complete and utter lack of shits about what happened at the end of 4? Not a single moment of angst about it? Not one?
How can you look at Berdly and not see a character who is completely sidelined because he's the only character who has several different things that can happen to him? He can't even die because Toby isn't sure if he might need him at some point, so in the meantime he has to languish on a hospital bed in a coma while no one outside of Noelle and Susie ever comments on it. Why? Because every single character that ever mentions Berdly after chapter two has to have at least three separate lines of dialogue because three different things can happen to him.
And that's a lotta work. The solution? Just write him out of the story.
Look me in my chad Lancer avatar's eyes and tell me Toriel was always going to be asleep for the entirety of chapter 3. Tell me that Toby always planned for Undyne to be in it for only ten seconds before exiting the story entirely. No. He obviously planned to originally involve the two much more deeply into the story (or at least the chapter) but couldn't come up with a way to write them in, and so he practically gave up.
Toriel was right next to them man, c'mon.
The area in chapter 4 with Gerson's library was at some point going to be a completely interconnected level with branching paths and that flowed into each other and the like. But it was too hard to make! So they gave. Up.
If Toby gives up so easily when it comes to the major characters and plot points in the actual story... Why would you trust him to write a satisfying mystery beyond just vagueposting? If he's willing to go back and add in more mysteryboxes, then why would you ever get invested into any theorizing?
- Registrado
- 2 de Abr, 2019
The thing is, I remember people talking about the Friend in Chapter 5 setting a trigger that did nothing. I think this may have legit been a mistake, especially since a new function was added to properly manage calling flags from other chapters.
Edit:
Also we see multiple FRIENDs during the ERAM bossfight, I imagine in his mind that was a reveal, but one we didn't pick up on. That part of Pink's speech is just clarification.
Última edición:
Various Shades of Brown
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 16 de Sep, 2024
"Cats can be nasty creatures, can't they, mew...?"
"Of course, cats are fickle creatures, but they were very good at finding protein."
"Once they find a target, they never stop chasing it until they get bored."
"Of course, cats are fickle creatures, but they were very good at finding protein."
"Once they find a target, they never stop chasing it until they get bored."
smartgenius55583433157
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 23 de Feb, 2026
Days without Suselle fans being complete retards: 0
- Registrado
- 17 de Dic, 2019
"Shit, people are calling my game a waste of fucking time, got to push the emergency lore button!"
Pretty much, this is antihype to me. This just tells me that 1, Toby does not have a firm idea or conviction of his narrative and is going through it as he goes, which is a gigantic fucking problem when your writing team are Tumblr trannyfaggots, so being influenced by them is poison. And 2, that he is still not willing to say anything straight. One of the bigger problems Deltarune has is that a ton of things are outside of the game to understand the metanarrative. If you are not aware of Noelle's penchant for sequence breaking in videogames and fucking around, you would just assume the lake scene is a dual suicide when it's a very bold play to break bounds. I do like all of the easter egg culture in the game, though I have zero desire to hunt for them myself, but I do think the game should give more to the player that just plays the fucking game and that's it. But as of now, the player just playing the fucking game is lacking a ton of information if you aren't a tism hunter.
- Registrado
- 19 de Abr, 2023
This is why I dislike Deltarune's "Chapter" format because this kinda shit doesn't stay fresh in peoples' minds and they need to be reminded every 2 years that "oooooh something BIG'S gonna happen, just wait guys"!
Considering we see a computer at the end of Chapter 5 Side B, I hope that they'll actually let us browse the ARG shit in game without needing a real internet connection, having to look outside the medium for any sort of lore for the actual game is gay in practice even if it looks cool on paper.
Considering we see a computer at the end of Chapter 5 Side B, I hope that they'll actually let us browse the ARG shit in game without needing a real internet connection, having to look outside the medium for any sort of lore for the actual game is gay in practice even if it looks cool on paper.
smartgenius55583433157
kiwifarms.net
- Registrado
- 23 de Feb, 2026