Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

>Kris doesn't have his or your soul
>'hang on, doesn't he just die without a soul?'
>wait on the fight menu without inputting anything
>his skin slowly becomes greyer and greyer
>eventually passes out without the need for killing him

That would be really clever

 

[Puck Clown]

I love how some deltarune youtubers are calling people critical of the chapter "theory brainrotted" and insist thats the only reason why they have a problem with it, meanwhile they're entire existence is to just pump out theory pig slop.

Theories are not what made me disappointed, it's that every chapter it's the same bullshit. Weak payoffs, events and emotional beats written off as jokes, and stakes that feel weak because the only thing we (allegedly) have to take seriously is the roaring/kidnappings that Susie herself doesn't even seem to give enough shit about to not goof off every chapter. but god forbid we aren't reminded constantly how IMPORTANT it is NOT to force Noelle to do anything other than throw herself at Susie. THAT is the one thing you HAVE to take seriously.

Edit: also lol everyone pretending they actually give a shit about gameplay now LOL. Probably because that is the only thing everyone at least can agree with being enjoyable in chapter 5, but I know none of these niggas really cared.

I JUST talked about this in the Digital Circus thread because of something Caine, or in this case, Spamton said

Link

The post itself wasn't about Deltarune specifically but a LOT of the replies immediately pointed to Deltarune.

To repeat what I said on the Digital Circus thread, theories are just another form of expectations created by what the author chooses to show us. Most theories come up or agree with are based on what we want out of the story, so if our theories turn out to be wrong, its only disappointing because the true outcome was disappointing. Even if our theories turn out to be wrong, if what we get is still very good, then its fine.

If "muh theories" were the only reason people didn't like chapter 5 then Chapter 3+4 would've been universally panned.

Do you have any idea how many chapter 2 era theories were completely annihilated when 3 and 4 came out?

This is a good example. Toby made the right call ending Chapter 3 with the Knight reveal. Its not Kris, but getting to meet Knight and getting a taste of how powerful he is sets a very strong precedence. Having the "TV Guy" people have been theorizing about turn out to be very likable even if all theories about him were wrong. Maybe you still don't like Chapter 3 for other reasons? Good thing then that its followed up with a far more serious chapter that focuses on Susie's character and giving us a taste of what the Roaring will be like by having us fight the Titan.

 

[Angry Muda]

I don't think Jevil is even mentioned more than twice, offhandedly, past chapter 1 lmao.

Dude really did just vanish

Jevil is mentioned when you have Ralsei and Seth go on a date.
Also something I hope chapter 6 does is bring back some battle gimmicks, like the shield in Gerson, and the shootings in Spamtom Neo. I noticed Toby Fox only reserves those gimmicks for one time bosses which is disappointing. It was a problem in Undertale too.

 

[needforsneed]

Imagine the kind of writing we could have gotten with the 7 flowers:

We could have had each of them representing an inversion of their soul colors' values while aspiring to embody them. Ch.5 did this with bravery and patience, but I guess they got too lazy to keep up with that for the others?

At the same time, Aqua, Purple, Blue, Yellow, Orange, and Green could have been children of various ages. Each could have provided a mirrored look into an aspect of Kris's coping with his parents' divorce - Green being moody and rude while trying to be nice ("maybe if I'm nice enough, Asgore will stay"), Orange being cowardly while trying to be brave ("I don't need Asgore, I'll show him"), etc. It could have then culminated with Flowery being an Asriel stand-in, hearkening back to Ralsei's Ch.1 reveal: the older brother figure trying to corral his flower siblings and keep Asgore as their "father". It also would have provided an easy way to show character development: maybe we end up helping the first 6 flowers to grow and embody their respective values. This framing could have also better explored a jealousy dynamic between Kris and the flowers, and revealed a lot about the histories of Kris, Asriel, and the Dreemurrs through parallels.

This would have made them much more sympathetic, and SHOWN rather than TOLD us about the struggle to justify closing this fountain while keeping Castle Town. Hell, if they were so dead-set on rehashing chapter 1, they could have had Susie once again leave the party when she realizes that we'd have to essentially condemn the flowers to death, since we can't move them to Castle Town. This would also serve to foreshadow the closing of Castle Town when Susie eventually comes to terms with closing the Flower King fountain.

What did we get instead? Lmao everyone's gay and bisexual and trans and polyamorous. Ignore the fact that the flowers see themselves as Asgore's children yet Flowery is doing questionably gay shit with his "father". Ignore that almost no story progression happened. Ignore that Susie literally A FEW HOURS AGO in-game just went through a life-changing horrible night where she witnessed Kris' broken home life and the kidnapping and potential death of the chief of police, she's just a goofy happy lesbian now.

Also, they could not have packed in more contrived wacky random internet references and self-references if they tried, even in the weird route. And what the fuck is up with ruining leitmotifs? Sorry for acknowledging your musical storytelling skills Toby, won't make that fucking mistake again.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Jevil is mentioned when you have Ralsei and Seth go on a date.
Also something I hope chapter 6 does is bring back some battle gimmicks, like the shield in Gerson, and the shootings in Spamtom Neo. I noticed Toby Fox only reserves those gimmicks for one time bosses which is disappointing. It was a problem in Undertale too.

The Soul changing colors and switching it's powers on the fly seems to be completely brushed over despite how big a deal that is. A soul changing color is incredibly unique, it's like morphing into a completely different person.

The only person who seems to be taken aback by it is Spamton with the BIG SHOT.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

The Soul changing colors and switching it's powers on the fly seems to be completely brushed over despite how big a deal that is. A soul changing color is incredibly unique, it's like morphing into a completely different person.

The only person who seems to be taken aback by it is Spamton with the BIG SHOT.

Kris always seemed to be more prepared to use a little bit more strength than usual on Spamton NEO. The Yellow Soul stuff was entirely the Soul's doing there, or maybe Kris helped by allowing it who fuckin know?
But the fact that Kris has X-Slash up his sleeve and only ever used it when Spamton was freaking him the fuck out in Weird Route makes me hate that lil nigga more than I should.
Little cunt wouldn't even pull that shit out on the Titan. 2/3rds of the potential party members are sandbagging and not fighting to the level they should.

 

[Sigmund Freud]

Guys, what if there's no deeper meanings and the story is just shit?

 

[Slumbie]

I do miss when this game was fun to speculate about. Back after Chapter 2 when there seemed to be endless possiblities for how the story could go. Where the weird route would go. Speculating on who would join the party next, how the stakes would rise in the coming chapters.

Now these chapters are out and I am positively underwhelmed. It's almost seems like Toby went out of his way to make the story as boring and basic as he possibly could. I'm honestly glad I didn't go through all the effort of making a new file for the weird route. All that effort just for a cutscene of a character I barely care about having a breakdown after the slightest provocation, and then no gameplay. Lame, especially after the Weird Route in Chapter 2.

 

[NSJAP]

0:33

 

[Colon capital V]

I do miss when this game was fun to speculate about. Back after Chapter 2 when there seemed to be endless possiblities for how the story could go. Where the weird route would go. Speculating on who would join the party next, how the stakes would rise in the coming chapters.

Now these chapters are out and I am positively underwhelmed. It's almost seems like Toby went out of his way to make the story as boring and basic as he possibly could. I'm honestly glad I didn't go through all the effort of making a new file for the weird route. All that effort just for a cutscene of a character I barely care about having a breakdown after the slightest provocation, and then no gameplay. Lame, especially after the Weird Route in Chapter 2.

Some of the fan content for what the future chapters could be about was pretty fun. Shout out to when people made un-hatted Ralsei sprites before he dropped in 2.

I'll share a little fun anecdote myself, before 3 and 4 dropped I was on character.ai dicking around (not literally, FREAK) with a few characters, came across a Ralsei chatbot and asked what the secret boss of chapter 3 would be. He said it was a creature made of wood/leaves holding a knife who had a really creepy smile and laugh. Now of course AI has no way of predicting IRL events (hopefully ), and the details aren't that "out there" given how things like knifes and "creepy smiles" was probably common words you'd see around Undertale/Deltarune that was used for C.AI's training data, but it's still kind of amusing how the AI really wasn't that far off from predicting Roaring Knight's reveal. Spooky

 

[Eternal Struggler]

(YT)
Kris Swoons EVERYONE That Interrupts Their Date.webm

> Jevil didn't get put in the fucking wheelchair

 

[Dorothy]

If you have the devilknife, we know Jevil is with you and can even influence. Spamton is also with you in non-snowgrave.

 

[Bixnood]

Ver archivo adjunto 9236114
I hope we see more of Noelle Holiday vs SS Starwalker in Chapter 6 Side B

They really have no response to people saying things like "Noelle is Heterosexual".
they try to argue in good faith that she is gay or bi, they simply dont understand that the posters dont care and that this is only being done to upset them. this fanbase is so autistic its fucked.

 

[Retarded Weeb]

In the scene if you have Kris and Noelle ride the ferris wheel together, if you have Kris sit quietly then the scene ends with Noelle doubting her new idea that Kris was trying to cheer her up or wanted to win the King/Queen vote and that he was just doing whatever she said, "Just like..." There's some ambiguity in that last line that some people are picking on, but I'm playing the chapter in Japanese and can say that line was translated to いつだって… basically meaning "Like always..." So it seems the line is as simple as Noelle feels she herself was always telling Kris what to do growing up.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

In the scene if you have Kris and Noelle ride the ferris wheel together, if you have Kris sit quietly then the scene ends with Noelle doubting her new idea that Kris was trying to cheer her up or wanted to win the King/Queen vote and that he was just doing whatever she said, "Just like..." There's some ambiguity in that last line that some people are picking on, but I'm playing the chapter in Japanese and can say that line was translated to いつだって… basically meaning "Like always..." So it seems the line is as simple as Noelle feels she herself was always telling Kris what to do growing up.

Huh. I mean if that's true then that seems like a bit of a change to their dynamic. I couldn't imagine Kris being super eager to do what Noelle says in most of the stories she remembers about the two of them.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I couldn't imagine Kris being super eager to do what Noelle says in most of the stories she remembers about the two of them.

"Kris I need you to scare the fucking shit out of me, no seriously, I want that."
"Kris why the FUCK did you scare the shit out of me, I'm going to hold this against you for years."
Being a human in this fucking town must suck bro.
No wonder Sans is keeping Papyrus hidden away, place is full of genuine sociopaths.

 

[Retarded Weeb]

"Kris I need you to scare the fucking shit out of me, no seriously, I want that."
"Kris why the FUCK did you scare the shit out of me, I'm going to hold this against you for years."

Woman moment.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

BPD Noelle is one of the few positives of ch 5

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

BPD Noelle is one of the few positives of ch 5

Weird Route Noelle going full schizo mode instead of being an "uwu aboos victem" instantly made her one of the best characters in the game and is sort of giving me hope for the normal route Noelle also having an inevitable schizo meltdown. It'd really suck if Toby didn't do anything interesting with her in the Normal Route.
I'd laugh so fucking hard if Rudy dying in the normal route followed by Susie prophecymaxxing at her causes her to just absolutely lose her shit and go full Columbine on Castle Town.
Unfortunately, that'd require Toby to be based.