DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Incecticyder]

And that pairing never made sense because Bruce Wayne is only superficially charming. Bats in general is too emotionally closed off to have a relationship like that, which is why the old man is alone.

While we're talking about Wondy, her powers need to be revamped the most. Currently, she's got far more durability than the other Amazons, the Lasso of Truth makes interrogations boring, and depending on the continuity, flight. The result is she's a weaker version of Superman with a weak supporting cast. She should be downgraded to peak Amazon (like how Capt. America is peak human) and the Lasso of Truth is now the Lasso of Hypnosis. The efficacy of lie detector tests aside, being forced to tell the truth leads to flat exposition. Now, what if goons still had the ability to say no? Now Diana has to use her brain and ask leading questions and suggestive language to get the information she wants. So, she can't ask "Where's the boss's hideout?" because the target will just say the boss won't let him answer that, but he can answer indirect questions like "how was your day?" or "who were you meeting?" in detail.

A revamp is a nice idea. A nerf is not. Give her some powers Superman does not have that could be used in many situations instead.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Hollywood executives need to grow a spine and tell Gunn to stop making the same GOTG movie since 2014. The market and climate of the industry has changed.

If you count copy cats like Concord, and the recent failure of Supergirl, people might had lost just as much or even more money trying to recapture the success of those movies than they even earned.

While we're talking about Wondy, her powers need to be revamped the most. Currently, she's got far more durability than the other Amazons, the Lasso of Truth makes interrogations boring, and depending on the continuity, flight.

I agree, for instance her being bullet proof makes no sense if she spends most of her time blocking bullets, and to this day I have yet to hear a good reason on why an Amazon can fly or why she is the only Amazon that flies. She just does.

I know I will hear that because she is a demigod, but even Greek myth demigods weren’t know to randomly fly. Not even Zeus children. She used to rely on a plane for a reason.

Making her weaker doesn't degrade her. They tried giving Captain Marvel every power they could think of and her comics never sold. Sometimes less is more.

 

[BubbaRobot887]

A revamp is a nice idea. A nerf is not. Give her some powers Superman does not have that could be used in many situations instead.

My solution was always to make the greek gods evil super natural false Gods that only the Amazons could stand up to and Superman was weak against and could not hurt.

Diana is the result of her mother getting tired of the fight that never ended and making a deal that she and the Amazons will stay out of their way and stay on their island if the false gods will give her a daughter. Diana finds out and leaves amd she spends her time fighting the false greek god Superman can't even hurt.

I admit I haven't worked out all the details and it isn't perfect but it gives her a dramatic backstory and a cast of villains pulled from greek myth.

Also if the writers decided they wanted to appeal to the WoderBat shippers it gives that relationship the comminality of both Batman and Wonder Woman fighting an endless war against evil.

 

[DocAwe]

Just make Absolute Wonder Woman the only Wonder Woman.
Problem solved.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

And that pairing never made sense because Bruce Wayne is only superficially charming. Bats in general is too emotionally closed off to have a relationship like that, which is why the old man is alone.

I mean, yeah, I didn't think we were supposed to think that it was some great romance, especially with the fact that Batman Beyond existed to show that DCAU Bruce had basically ruined all but a handful of his relationships. I think the scenes were just memorable, because Bats occasionally gets thrown out of his usual stoic loop, and it gives Diana literally anything to do.

Bruce Timm and the other managed to make people care about his OC Harley Quinn, and even, C-listers like Hawkgirl, Huntress,and Vixen. But their Wonder Woman was bland.

"Still trying to figure out the proper earth protocol for this situation. It's not like I can just assassinate you in your sleep or poison your water.

I miss Thanagar."

The problem with Diana is they refuse to give her any major flaws or quirks. She's tougher than nails (according to one production note, apparently in every group fight, she was supposed to be shown doing the best, even above Clark) and the closest we ever get to an emotional beat is her being banished from Themyscira, which would probably have more impact if we saw her childhood there, or if she spent more than like half an hour of screen-time there over the course of five seasons. Diana is the tofu of the Justice League, she is wholly dependent on whatever the other characters bring to give her any flavor.

I'd argue that's a flaw transferred over from the Tom King comics' source material (amplified by the film's shitty script). Tom King's stereotypical: "I made a superhero character depressed!" deconstruction miniseries are always meandering and shallow. King's inexplicably award winning Mister Miracle miniseries has the exact same problem (if anything, it's waaaay worse). Mister Miracle just wastes 12 issues wandering around acting depressed and skitzo. The ending implies he's in some anti-life world or something??? IDK the writing was unclear and I think that might just be a fan theory.

Tom King's Mister Miracle comic was itself the anti-life equation, because holy fuck did that run make me want to slit my wrists. Its so meta!

 

[Incecticyder]

My solution was always to make the greek gods evil super natural false Gods that only the Amazons could stand up to and Superman was weak against and could not hurt.

Diana is the result of her mother getting tired of the first and making a deal that she and the Amazons will stay out of their way and stay on their island if the false gods will give her a daughter. Diana finds out and leaves amd she spends her time fighting the false greek god Superman can't even hurt.

I admit I haven't worked out all the details and it isn't perfect but it gives her a dramatic backstory and a cast of villains pulled from greek myth.

Also if the writers decided they wanted to appeal to the WoderBat shippers it gives that relationship the comminality of both Batman and Wonder Woman fighting an endless war against evil.

Sorry but that would never work. Making the gods evil would create nothing but backlash. No one likes it when they take other cultures and change things. The gods have to remain as they are. Rarely were the Greek gods the purely evil ones. Thy are truth/nature and thus not always kind. Even Hera was bound to hurt kids only because her domain of marriage was threatened and that was sacrilege. Also, the gods are the ones that keep the island a paradise. Fighting against them after all that is purely ungrateful.

If you want EVIL creatures from Greek mythology then demigods, nymphs and other such being could serve as such without breaking canon. Cacodemons would be an excellent choice too. Why even stick to just Greek mythology? Amazons are of various races and cultures that have gathered in one place. Have her fight Oni, Fairies, anything. There are so many choices.

 

[BubbaRobot887]

Sorry but that would never work. Making the gods evil would create nothing but backlash. No one likes it when they take other cultures and change things. The gods have to remain as they are. Rarely were the Greek gods the purely evil ones. Thy are truth/nature and thus not always kind. Even Hera was bound to hurt kids only because her domain of marriage was threatened and that was sacrilege. Also, the gods are the ones that keep the island a paradise. Fighting against them after all that is purely ungrateful.

If you want EVIL creatures from Greek mythology then demigods, nymphs and other such being could serve as such without breaking canon. Cacodemons would be an excellent choice too. Why even stick to just Greek mythology? Amazons are of various races and cultures that have gathered in one place. Have her fight Oni, Fairies, anything. There are so many choices.

Oh, I knew I was forgetting something. My idea was that the Greek God destroy the island and the Amazons so Diana also has the comminality with Superman that her home is gone and she is the last of her kind.

There is merrit to what you say but I think making her the only one of the big three that can stand against some sort of over powered magical threat is the main point, as it give her a clear cut purpose in the universe and along with Batman and Superman.

Batman deals with street level threats, Superman deals with aliens and mad scientists, and Wonder Woman deal with the supernatural and together they form the core of the DC universe.

 

[Newcomer 42]

Batman Beyond existed to show that DCAU Bruce had basically ruined all but a handful of his relationships.

Wasn't that a dark future timeline that may not necessarily happen?

Tom King's Mister Miracle comic was itself the anti-life equation, because holy fuck did that

His Rorschach had good art and terrible writing that was a sacrilege, randomly dissing against Rob Liefeld IIRC plus Drumpf. As well as ignoring the OG world.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Wasn't that a dark future timeline that may

No. The Batman Beyond era is the canonical future of the DCAU. They even doubled down on Justice League by linking the whole Cadmus plot to explain why Terry Is Bruce's son

It's canon that the Kevin Conroy Batman ended up single. All shippers lost.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

Wasn't that a dark future timeline that may not necessarily happen?

His Rorschach had good art and terrible writing that was a sacrilege, randomly dissing against Rob Liefeld IIRC plus Drumpf. As well as ignoring the OG world.

If you're referring to the episode Epilogue, all the black and white bits are a hypothetical.

But even best case in the DCAU + Batman Beyond universe, and its expansion in the comics, Bruce really did a good job burning his bridges.

 

[Eventide]

Tom King's Mister Miracle comic was itself the anti-life equation, because holy fuck did that run make me want to slit my wrists. Its so meta!

Wait, was it genuinely trying to be meta? 'cause I do remember the series leaning heavily on the 4th Wall/alluding to all of DC's recent crisis' & continuity reboots, in a very heavy handed "look at me, I'm being postmodernist!" sorta way.

One could argue Tom King's popularity and universal praise as a comic book writer is a CIA psy-op in and of itself...

His Rorschach had good art and terrible writing that was a sacrilege, randomly dissing against Rob Liefeld IIRC plus Drumpf. As well as ignoring the OG world.

Isn't Rob Liefeld in-comic dissing generally the result of Liefeld apparently being an arrogant asshole (like, personality wise)? On the topic of 90's goo Supergirl, I remember once reading somewhere that the late Peter David had some ongoing feud with Liefeld in the 90's, to the point where they had to be seated on opposite sides of the convention floor in comic cons. Liefeld also has had a feud with Jim Lee, Deadpool writer Joe Kelly, Gail Simone, Chuck Dixon...there's definitely more but these are the ones I remember off the top of my head. Anyway, it wouldn't shock me if Liefeld ran his mouth at Tom King at some comic event, and pissed him off enough to get shit on in one of King's book.

 

[Incecticyder]

Oh, I knew I was forgetting something. My idea was that the Greek God destroy the island and the Amazons so Diana also has the comminality with Superman that her home is gone and she is the last of her kind.

The idea that ONE god will be enough to destroy an island powered by the entire Greek Pantheon is ludicrous. Typhon fits the bill but he is a monster. Also, Typhon is absurdly strong and very difficult to draw. As for Diana being alone, I think that would be too much. Having the Amazons as a fictional human group is fairly interesting in the dynamic perspective.

You could have the Pantheon having to lesser their power on Themiscyra temporarily after an attack by Typhon and needing to fend for themselves for that time as there are bad harvests, ill weather, plagues etc for the first time since it was picked to be the Paradise Island.

There is merrit to what you say but I think making her the only one of the big three that can stand against some sort of over powered magical threat is the main point, as it give her a clear cut purpose in the universe and along with Batman and Superman.

Batman deals with street level threats, Superman deals with aliens and mad scientists, and Wonder Woman deal with the supernatural and together they form the core of the DC universe.

You can have her tiara make her resistant to magical mental attacks, her bracelets create barriers, her armor create resistances to curses and seeing that she was handcrafted by the gods, she could damage magical beings in a way that makes it hard to regenerate or resist. There are options.

No. The Batman Beyond era is the canonical future of the DCAU. They even doubled down on Justice League by linking the whole Cadmus plot to explain why Terry Is Bruce's son

It's canon that the Kevin Conroy Batman ended up single. All shippers lost.

If you're referring to the episode Epilogue, all the black and white bits are a hypothetical.

But even best case in the DCAU + Batman Beyond universe, and its expansion in the comics, Bruce really did a good job burning his bridges.

And I think it makes sense. His version of the Batman was too traumatized to want to settle down. He went to his parents' grave to apologize for being happy. Kind as he was, that man wasn't healthy. That is why he slept with Barbara. He needed companionship even when he was too traumatized to want it. This Batman was a great hero but he was a mess behind the cowl.

 

[BubbaRobot887]

I meant to type Gods, they come toghter to detroy the Amazons because they broke the truce. Sorry I mistyped and left out the s at the end.

It doesn't have to be the Gods, just some over powered threat that the Amazons got tired of fighting and now with them gone Diana is the only one who can stand against, that is the main point.

As long as there is a story reason the rest of the Amazons don't want or can't join Diana in battle is what I think works.

I like your idea of the different parts of her outfit have different powers.

As i said it doesn't have to be the gods she is fight but something supernatural and something that produces good villain characters for her to take on.

 

[Newcomer 42]

sn't Rob Liefeld in-comic dissing generally the result of Liefeld apparently being an arrogant asshole (like, personality wise)?

Can't say, never know that guy other than being peak 90s for good and bad. Plus I tihnk I may be mistaking him with someone else, the point is that one of the characters in that book is a fellow comicbook writer who's brutally murdered, right after being shown as an elderly and somewhat unstable man, then brainwashed into being an assassin. It was a poor taste joke IMO.

 

[A Very Big Fish]

Wait, was it genuinely trying to be meta? 'cause I do remember the series leaning heavily on the 4th Wall/alluding to all of DC's recent crisis' & continuity reboots, in a very heavy handed "look at me, I'm being postmodernist!" sorta way.

One could argue Tom King's popularity and universal praise as a comic book writer is a CIA psy-op in and of itself...

I mean, I think it wanted to be. Though frankly, I just remember finding it really boring.

 

[Incecticyder]

It doesn't have to be the Gods, just some over powered threat that the Amazons got tired of fighting and now with them gone Diana is the only one who can stand against, that is the main point.

As long as there is a story reason the rest of the Amazons don't want or can't join Diana in battle is what I think works.

The Amazons largely live on their island. They don't join often.

I like your idea of the different parts of her outfit have different powers.

I mean, they ARE forged by Hephaestus. They should be great.

As i said it doesn't have to be the gods she is fight but something supernatural and something that produces good villain characters for her to take on.

You can have a cabal of demigods trying to control the world behind everyone's back. That could work.

 

[BubbaRobot887]

The Amazons largely live on their island. They don't join often.


I mean, they ARE forged by Hephaestus. They should be great.


You can have a cabal of demigods trying to control the world behind everyone's back. That could work.

I like that idea.

As long as she has an ongoing threat only she can handle.

 

[oh no its pipkun]

I know everyone love's Wonder Woman in the DCAU because of the Wonder bat ship (that canonically never went anywhere). But just remove her from Bruce for a sec. Can you honestly tell she is interesting on her own? Unless it's in the context of that ship nobody cares about her that much.

She is not even a top 5 DCAU female character.

Bruce Timm and the other managed to make people care about his OC Harley Quinn, and even, C-listers like Hawkgirl, Huntress,and Vixen. But their Wonder Woman was bland.

Even they couldn't escape from making Diana a symbol instead of person.

I think they should stop focusing on her as the feminism icon and start thinking of her as a woman if they want people to start liking her more.

isnt she a god or demi god? she's not human and comes with all the baggage aliens like the super family have neigh immortality and super strength: boring unless fighting other power scaling villians.

whats great about the bat family is that they arent perfect or powerful and sometimes people die because they cant stop the crime.

 

[Mystery Spy]

isnt she a god or demi god? she's not human and comes with all the baggage aliens like the super family have neigh immortality and super strength: boring unless fighting other power scaling villians.

whats great about the bat family is that they arent perfect or powerful and sometimes people die because they cant stop the crime.

While I agree some writers try to make her too overpowered, to compensate for her blandness, Powers are not the reason she is boring. Heroes are not fighting 24/7.

Rather you should be asking if they are fun to watch even when they are not fighting. This is a yes from Batman as he can do detective work, or Superman who is a reporter and can be inspiring.

This is not the case with Wonder Woman. Most people writing her can't even a answer who she is outside of fighting criminals, and being a feminist icon.