Culture US to pull jets, destroyers and submarines from NATO - 100 years later, you're on your damn own


BRUSSELS — Washington told allies it will gradually scale down the number of strategic bombers, fighter jets, drones, submarines and warships dedicated to NATO as it continues pressing Europe to do more for its own defense.

The announcement was made in a closed-door meeting of NATO policy directors on Friday by Pentagon adviser Alexander Velez-Green, according to two alliance diplomats who were granted anonymity to speak freely.

The reductions reflect a long-running effort by U.S. President Donald Trump to pare back America’s role in an alliance he has repeatedly criticized as useless to Washington. It also underscores the administration’s military pivot toward other regions, like the Indo-Pacific.
Trump has dismayed European allies by announcing he would pull 5,000 troops out of Germany, which later turned out to include 4,000 soldiers from Poland — before U-turning and saying he would deploy an additional 5,000 troops to Poland.

The exact nature of the cutbacks is not yet finalized, the diplomats said, and the U.S. did not attach any timelines to the reductions. Washington also reassured allies there would be no changes to its nuclear deterrence, they added.

The meeting did “not [give] exhaustive details … but it is much clearer now,” said a third NATO diplomat, also granted anonymity to speak freely. “It will depend on the capacity of the others to come in with alternatives … some are not touched, others go completely, others can go to one-half or one-third.”

“The timeline is more complicated because it is linked with the credibility of deterrence and defense,” they said. “That said, everything is not yet definitely decided, even in the U.S.”

European allies and the U.S. are likely to discuss the issue further at NATO’s Force Generation conference next month, the two diplomats said. That is a meeting where national military planners define the capabilities they can offer the alliance, and under what conditions.

Under NATO's Force Model system, alliance members periodically identify the soldiers and equipment they will commit to NATO operations — making them available to the alliance’s top commander in the event of a war. The specifics are a closely-guarded secret, but Washington now wants to scale back those commitments.
Jennifer Kavanagh, director of military analysis at the Washington-based Defense Priorities think tank, said the reductions would create gaps that would be particularly difficult to fill rapidly for some types of military assets, including submarines and strategic bombers.

But European allies should not seek to replace them like-for-like, she argued. “The important thing with these U.S. withdrawals is not that Europe matches what is lost but [that] Europe figures out what it really needs to defend itself and procure those capabilities,” Kavanagh said. “Across the board Europe can do this within five years.”

U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio made clear to fellow NATO foreign ministers on Friday that further American troop and weapons drawdowns were on their way — while reassuring them that this would be done in a coordinated fashion.

“It’s well understood in the alliance that the United States troop presence in Europe is going to be adjusted — that work was already ongoing, and it’s been done in coordination with our allies,” Rubio told reporters in the Swedish city of Helsingborg. “I’m not saying they’re going to be thrilled about it, but they certainly are aware.”

NATO spokesperson Allison Hart told POLITICO that "there has been an over-reliance on US forces and capabilities" by the alliance, adding: "But as Europe and Canada are investing more in defence and developing more capabilities, the balance of responsibility can shift."

"This change strengthens NATO’s defence plans by reducing over-dependence on one (LOL MORE LIKE YOUR ONLY) ally and is a reflection of a broader shift happening within the alliance," she said.
 
Makes no difference if all of the materiel that can be offered will be transported to the region at a moment's notice due to the NATO defense alliance compact.

NATO membership is the actual issue, talking about Europe being 'on its own' whilst we're still a member is retarded. Until the U.S. isn't a member, we're still paying for their defense one way or another.
 
Hopefully their leaders at least have the braincells to realize the need for strong defense, but they already don't when it comes to borders.
Not just with Europe, but I wonder how many of the world leaders are soulless academics, blackmail compromised, or just want to sit at the cool kid's table. They are all so fucking maliciously stupid, I'd consider it at least a little honorable if they'd just come out and say "Yes, we're trying to crash Europe and murder all the white people." Because I can't hear about how important democracy and all the other shit is, while everything fucking falls to ruin around them and they rely on telling lies to try and keep the facade up. Just admit you're fucking evil, most of the soulless fucking husks won't fight you on it, and if they do, just tell them that your relative died in the holly, that'll stop most of them.
 
You didn't address my point.
Oh no, I addressed it fully. We, as in the United States of America, are not at the beck and call of the ungrateful bastards dwelling upon the European continent. The only thing I have seen from Europe is derision and scorn at those barbaric Americans that deign to have a military. At the same time, any time shit stirs up over there Europe comes bleating across the pond like a frightened lamb any time someone else flexes - and even during that there's always been such a smug sense of superiority that I see you as even less of my respect than I do the average Californian.

Fuck off. You want defense? Do it yourself. Show us colonial mongrels how it's supposed to be done
 
Oh no, I addressed it fully. We, as in the United States of America, are not at the beck and call of the ungrateful bastards dwelling upon the European continent. The only thing I have seen from Europe is derision and scorn at those barbaric Americans that deign to have a military. At the same time, any time shit stirs up over there Europe comes bleating across the pond like a frightened lamb any time someone else flexes - and even during that there's always been such a smug sense of superiority that I see you as even less of my respect than I do the average Californian.

Fuck off. You want defense? Do it yourself. Show us colonial mongrels how it's supposed to be done
Relax Johnny Tremain, I'm not coming for your guns. Yet.

I'm just pointing out the God Emperor getting told to fuck off by Saudi Arabia and the US withdrawing its forces from Europe isn't a show of strength.
 
Did they really think it was contracted that America pays for everything, forever, for all time? All this talk of Euro power and nary a manufacturer. Considering a lot of Euro firearms companies sell guns to the US market, you'd think they'd be capable of making some for their own country. You mean to tell me with over 100 years of free gibs, not one penny was spent so that we would be able to be self sufficient at our own defense? The globe is ruled by clowns, or are we the real ones for electing such people. It's all the same joke in the end.
 
The only thing they know is that if the US pulls out of NATO? They have to start paying for their own defense, and that means the absolute death of their political systems that were built upon unsustainable gibs and a promise that no European would ever have to make a personal sacrifice for King or Country ever again. Their welfare state/trade union on steroids cannot sustain a single cut in the handouts for any reason.
So all that needed to kickstart Western Europe getting Muslims out of there and knocking it off with "Yookay" managerial nonsense was NATO dissolving? Based.
 
No, they know it's not the Cold War - back during Trump I they openly laughed at Trump for suggesting the Russians were not an ally and not someone they should be buying their energy from and that he needed to check a calendar.
Today, I will remind them.

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This exchange happened 2 years before the CIA-backed Maidan coup, and the resulting annexation of Crimea. It happened 3 years before the Ukraine civil war with their Russian-majority provinces. 4 years before the left suddenly started raving about Russian election interference. All of these happened during the 2nd term a retarded American left gave their guy because he looked black while talking white.

Never let people forget that Obama, the guy elected to "fix" our foreign policy, was wrong about every single foreign policy issue he ever encountered.
 
Iran was probably the breaking point. If it was Europe only being neutral it wouldn't have been as bad, but they outright supported Iran either due to short term economical preferences or to "own Trump". With allies like those what's even the point of any defence pact? Especially as the risk of communism died 20 years ago and nowadays Europe is more commie than Russia is.
 
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