BioShock, System Shock and other Immersive Sims and "Shock-likes" - or just the ImSim Thread

it has a point and clearly communicates it through every facet of it's design so i really don't know what more people want out of a game that's trying to say something. Jurassic park does the same shit and it's generally regarded as a great movie not because it's some kind of brilliant intellectual examination of man playing god but because it communicates all of it's points through symbolism a retard can understand, like giving a neckbeard shaving cream, or the helicopter having two female seatbelts. bioshock is pretty much operating on the same level, the first thing you see in the game is literally a statue of the final boss holding up a sign that explicitly states his goals and motivations. This is just the basics of storytelling

half life 2 does the same thing, what happens to you in the teleporter in kleiner's lab is literally entire macro plot of the game told to you in 30 seconds. mossman has responsibility she's going to falter on, and a rogue element of nature will jump in and fuck the whole system up.
Bioshock is just lazy plagiarism of Systemshock2's systems, with a shitty subversive Jewish story slapped over it.
It is literally about Jews being persecuted by goyim because the stupid goy are envious of how much smarter and better the Jews are then them.
They build an underwater utopia that gets destroyed by a goy, who then dies because he is a stupid goy that can't handle the power a chosen one wields, And like any Jewish writer he couldn't help himself but put some holocaust propaganda in there.


System Shock 2 is the peak of the genre to this day. Most that came after it didn't care to make a more immersive game with more logical emergent elements, they just wanted to make another System Shock or Deus Ex.
A sad reality for many genres.

Peripeteia is a great game. Lots of jank but a fantastic atmosphere.
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ive already sperged out about bioshock infinite so im just going to copy paste it into a big block here so my blood pressure stays low

they literally ran a fucking gamergate campaign on bioshock infinite that people still blindly repeat about sexism and elizabeth to cover for the most blatant example of band aid game design ever shipped. the reason elizabeth is shit is because she was an excuse to compromise on level design, they didn't spend effort putting items in the game world for the player to discover because elizabeth spawns them in front of you - and somehow people are not willing to take that as a worthwhile criticism of a game with "bioshock" in the title because of an aggressive ad campaign by journalists during peak gamergate

i could probably write a full blown academic dissertation about how ass bioshock infinite was but every aspect of the game's art direction, level design, and basic plot outline clearly indicated it was rushed out the door before anything they were proud of was ready to show off and the bare minimum viable product they shipped was so rough around the edges that they had to resort to nostalgia baiting and mystery box bullshit to get people excited for it before release,

the marketing for that game was just them showing off an exterior street corner shot of a movie theater playing star wars in 1977- which was also the only scene in the game where elizabeth uses her time portal powers the entire plot of the game revolves around - anyways the single time she uses those powers its an attempt to break the fourth wall and blatantly manipulate the player's emotions using nostalgia to a real life thing. game is astoundingly fucking shit

they literally forgot to come up with a mcguffin for the game because it was half baked and rushed out the door

in the original bioshock the mcguffin is a magic sea slug, its why there's a war in rapture, its why the little sisters and big daddies exist, its why everyone is methed up. there's obviously some kind of allegory for objectivism going on using the sea and the slugs. in infinite what the fuck do the quantum wormholes have to do with the city floating in the clouds? Is it because the first game had a city called rapture so they had to literally make the rapture physically happen for the sequel?
 
they literally forgot to come up with a mcguffin for the game because it was half baked and rushed out the door
And it was all because Levine is certified cretin that kept sabotaging development with his ineptitude.

There's tales of him rejecting a completed map that had been months in development for the pettiest reasons, when he was the one that approved the map, and then apparently forgot his own employees were working on it, when they could have been doing something more productive.

Levine is proof of Jewish nepotism, because no other game auteur would be given as many chances as he has after the financial disaster that BioShock Infinite was.

The most hilarious thing is that he learned nothing from the experience, Judas is now also in dev hell, grossly overbudget and a decade overdue, and will be just as subversively Jewish as BioShock 1 was.
 
It's not that Ryan is right, exactly. But the writing (Levine) is desperately trying to pretend his philosophy and morality was wrong because... a new sea slug extract let people inject superhuman abilities and become tweakers. That's the immediate reason for Rapture's downfall, not because of greed or anti-government sentiment or even regular hubris. It's lame as a "counter argument", but the game pretends it's conclusive.

(Fontaine moves things along but was defeated by Ryan; Jack, the protagonist sleeper agent, wasn't activated until Rapture fell apart.)

Ryan did not earn his downfall. Or at least, he didn't earn it in a way that validates the criticisms of his ideals.
i think this is a valid criticism of the game as propaganda, that's it's not really an earnest examination of objectivism and pussies out of actually trying to come up with a real argument against it in lieu of a generic downfall story. but that just means that it's easier for people who agree with those ideas to use the game to support them. the second game kind of flips the script and makes the big bad talking head a utilitarian communist and then gives HER a downfall story, so i guess it ends up working out in the end?

They build an underwater utopia that gets destroyed by a goy, who then dies because he is a stupid goy that can't handle the power a chosen one wields, And like any Jewish writer he couldn't help himself but put some holocaust propaganda in there.
i should probably replay the game now that i'm more aware of jewish trickery but i pretty clearly remember the game using persecution of christianity as a plot point that fontaine uses as a wedge to gain more power over ryan by importing bibles and feeding malcontent in the imported working classes disillusioned with his secular egalitarian world view. That's... that's not really a jewish plot point that's kind of the exact stuff that jews specifically don't want to talk about. i don't really understand
 
-quest arrow at the top pointing you where to go

The arrow helped me because I rarely play first person games and the perspective tends to confuse me. Although after awhile it can get annoying. I'm pretty sure you can toggle it though. It's been awhile. Highlighting is for noobs.
 
Arx Fatalis is pretty cool despite being so old, I got way more immersed in it than any other modern slop. I even wrote down every combination of rune magic on paper so I could be a fluent battle mage with my own spell book. It's not necessary as you've got an in-game one, but it's very barebones and slow to find what you're looking for.
It's also DRM free on GoG btw. But those paranoid about security might want to stay away from the game as the fan patch on github gives a false positive on virus scans.

I also tried Dark Messiah of Might and Magic after it was recommended as Arx-like, but didn't like that much. The physics were cool, but that's it. Everything else felt barebones and like there was the only proper way to play.
 
Yeah, Andrew Ryan as a superjew hero is an analysis that fails pretty fast given that the guy goes from libertarian to "mind control and murder everyone who mildly disagrees with me" at the drop of a hat, more or less. For all that he jerked himself off about being a self-made man and a titan of industry and whatnot, as soon as actual competition arose and he might not be the top dog of his city anymore, he immediately chucks any last shred of morality and does his best to sabotage, cheat, and steal. He's far from someone you'd want as a poster boy.
 
i think this is a valid criticism of the game as propaganda, that's it's not really an earnest examination of objectivism and pussies out of actually trying to come up with a real argument against it in lieu of a generic downfall story. but that just means that it's easier for people who agree with those ideas to use the game to support them. the second game kind of flips the script and makes the big bad talking head a utilitarian communist and then gives HER a downfall story, so i guess it ends up working out in the end?
I'm not an Objectivist or a defender, but as a basic storytelling enthusiast it bothered me. The Greek concept of hubris was designed for this exact purpose, to make a downfall feel earned and proper, but Levine bungles it.

A man stands against the gods (or the unchallengeable forces of the universe), declares victory with pride, then is brought down by the very force he challenged. If you're going to do that with Ryan or Objectivism, the force that brings him down should be economic, or moral, or at least human. Something like people being greedier than Ryan anticipates, or an underwater economy not working without government subsidies. Instead, it's brought down by superhuman drug addicts running rampant. Ryan even overcomes the forces that should bring him down (Fontaine, underclass resentment, business competition).

When you beat a man by supernatural deus ex machina, you're forced to reconcile that you and your ideals couldn't overcome him. His ideals remain untouched. It creates a martyr story, not a pride/hubris story. So yeah, anyone who already agreed with those ideals are right to use it as propaganda for their side.

i should probably replay the game now that i'm more aware of jewish trickery but i pretty clearly remember the game using persecution of christianity as a plot point that fontaine uses as a wedge to gain more power over ryan by importing bibles and feeding malcontent in the imported working classes disillusioned with his secular egalitarian world view. That's... that's not really a jewish plot point that's kind of the exact stuff that jews specifically don't want to talk about. i don't really understand
I'm not one of the ITS DA JOOZ crowd, but American Krogan's dissection on this is excellent. He's got the interviews and the research to definitively back up his exposure of Levine's Jewish insertions.

Someone above linked his Ethnic Struggle video, but he also did a 5 part series called The Hatred that's worth watching. (It's Jews hating on others, not hating on the Jews directly.) I recommend it to everyone, even to anti-/pol/ or anti-A&N leftists, because it's that strong. Full playlist here on Odysee, audio only here if you prefer.

TL;DR Levine completely, thoroughly fucked up as a writer.
 
This guy sets off my grift-dar, no thanks.
He's legit, and no he's not Indian.
The most hilarious thing is that he learned nothing from the experience, Judas is now also in dev hell, grossly overbudget and a decade overdue, and will be just as subversively Jewish as BioShock 1 was.
As I've gotten older, I've realized he's the Neil Druckmann before Neil Druckmann and he's just better at hiding it. 2K isn't around to save him this time. The Bioshock trilogy had some cool art direction and all 3 games came out before people were super JQ pilled and everything was mega polarized.

Judas won't have the benefit of the doubt Infinite got for years, especially with it's shit design.
 
You're making me want to actually play Bioshock 2. I never believed the hype, there was no way it could be good, but a lot of you fuckers seem to actually love it like pigeons love balconies
 
Krogan’s entire argument falls apart when you think about it for 30 seconds. “It’s about Jewishness and how great Jews are” fails when 80% of the Jewish characters are twisted and corrupted in their actions. Cohen’s ideals about art are lofty, and in the circle of high art commendable, but fail in practice when it requires setting people on fire and recording their final moments. Outside of his name I forget if he even mentions Judaism but he certainly doesn’t apply any recognizable practice of it.

Ryan has like a single line about his mother being treated poorly for being Jewish but much like Rand doesn’t apply any of its ideals into his philosophy. Rand was very much a staunch atheist who I don’t even think maintained any of the less religious, more cultural practices of Judaism. Ryan’s dislike of Christianity isn’t some statement of Judaism, but rather a reflection of Rand’s distain for the authority of religion. That entire plot point I’ve always read as the manipulation of good people to do bad things through the good word, not something tied to any specific religion but present when despots are in charge.

A couple interviews with Levine and he says some stuff. I’ve always felt that Levine was a yapper and not very consistent in his representation of the story presented. He has an opinion of what Bioshock was in his head and to him that’s a neat little nod to some aspects of the Jewish diaspora. But if you actually start to crack open some of these things at times they are completely antithetical to the point he claims to be making. Even Tanenbaum, the character people point to as the “look he’s making the good character a Jew” example isn’t a great person. She struggles with the reality of what she has done and in the end has a conscious.

Krogan is also the individual who spent like 3 years or something making a mod to remove black people from Fallout 4 (weird one to waste time on if you claim to be a chud) on the false argument that the civil right movement didn’t happen in the Fallout universe. He just makes stuff up to suit a narrative if he needs to.
 
You're making me want to actually play Bioshock 2. I never believed the hype, there was no way it could be good, but a lot of you fuckers seem to actually love it like pigeons love balconies
they fixed the combat and now the hacking is done in real time instead of pausing wjile you hack
 
Krogan’s entire argument falls apart when you think about it for 30 seconds. “It’s about Jewishness and how great Jews are” fails when 80% of the Jewish characters are twisted and corrupted in their actions.
Your argument here falls apart the moment you realize a lot of Jews, and their liberal golems, don't see anything wrong with behavior like that.

Take the Velma cartoon - the "good" characters are genuinely repulsive, evil people, yet the writers were shocked that the public would label them as such. Hell, take any shitlib show or movie made in the past decade and the same pattern emerges - unlikeable characters that the plot tries desperately to paint as good people because they're the writers' self-inserts or pets.

Rand was very much a staunch atheist who I don’t even think maintained any of the less religious, more cultural practices of Judaism
lol

lmao even

The vast majority of Jews in the West will describe themselves as staunch secularists and atheists, doesn't stop them from behaving like the most stereotypical Jew imaginable or favoring their coethnics any chance they get.

Are you Jewish? That's a lot of paragraphs to waste on "Levine dindunuffin", when his whole body of work starting from BioShock 1 was "White gentiles bad."

Can't exactly pretend not to be a Jewish stereotype if he keeps behaving like one.
 
I'm seeing Prey (2017) slander in this thread, and I'm tired of seeing it. Name me one other game that allows you to recycle people a lá Soylent Green. It's peak serial killer energy and I love it.

Also, why is Doom 3 considered an Immersive Sim? I have never heard of it being a ImSim once, and it's one of my favorite games. It's very atmospheric, but the game is very generous on resources and it's a shooter.
 
deus ex is still the best immersive sim

hell, even HR and MD are really good imo, yeah, they had issues, but i still really liked both of these

still tho DX1 is based as fuck

Who doesn't want to play as an augmented autist who deals with Globohomo Conspiracy while being able to do out of the box builds.
 
Also, why is Doom 3 considered an Immersive Sim? I have never heard of it being a ImSim once, and it's one of my favorite games. It's very atmospheric, but the game is very generous on resources and it's a shooter.
I played it again a couple weeks ago and it just reminded me heavily of like a prototype of BioShock, what with the emphasis on atmosphere, audio logs, environmental storytelling, etc. The push for inworld interactables instead of pressing e on everything also just felt very ImSim-ish to me.

our argument here falls apart the moment you realize a lot of Jews, and their liberal golems, don't see anything wrong with behavior like that.

Take the Velma cartoon - the "good" characters are genuinely repulsive, evil people, yet the writers were shocked that the public would label them as such. Hell, take any shitlib show or movie made in the past decade and the same pattern emerges - unlikeable characters that the plot tries desperately to paint as good people because they're the writers' self-inserts or pets.

lol

lmao even

The vast majority of Jews in the West will describe themselves as staunch secularists and atheists, doesn't stop them from behaving like the most stereotypical Jew imaginable or favoring their coethnics any chance they get.

Are you Jewish? That's a lot of paragraphs to waste on "Levine dindunuffin", when his whole body of work starting from BioShock 1 was "White gentiles bad."

Can't exactly pretend not to be a Jewish stereotype if he keeps behaving like one.
Hey buddy if you're not going to talk about video games you like and just sperg about da joos then please go back to A&N
 
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I dearly love the System Shock and Deus Ex games - I've replayed System Shock 2 about three times since the remaster came out - but I have hard time with the rest. I've never liked BioShock, it always felt like a consolized and much less interesting knockoff of the genre, although BioShock 1 and 2 are definitely decent games, especially compared to the insufferable self-suck session that was BioShock Infinite. Ken Levine is an overly self-important faggot.


I unironically like Doom 3. you found him, here I am, the one and only Doom 3 Enjoyer

I think Doom 3 is a fantastic reinterpretation of the original Doom. the environments and aesthetics are wonderful. the ambience is on point. the demon designs are excellent, the use of darkness as a combat mechanic is genius. the BFG Edition remaster very much does the game a disservice by giving you an on-demand flashlight you don't have to hold in your hands. having to choose between being able to see the environment around you clearly and being able to defend yourself is a deliberate design choice and a good one. the one criticism I have is that the guns are lacking in impact and unexciting to use. but the rest of the combat elements make up for it IMO. it's such a shame that modern id is so fucking worthless, I'd genuinely like to see a follow-up to Doom 3 that iterates on its design. also, I like posting this picture:

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such a shame they changed the Lost Souls in the expansion to look more like the ones from the original Doom. I understand why they did it, but the vanilla Doom 3 version looks sick as hell.

deus ex is still the best immersive sim

hell, even HR and MD are really good imo, yeah, they had issues, but i still really liked both of these

still tho DX1 is based as fuck

this. the original Deus Ex is top goat as far as I'm concerned, but I really liked Eidos Montreal's take on the franchise, and I wish it hadn't been taken from them. still, now that Embracer Group is shedding IPs, hopefully somebody cool will pick up the franchise and do something interesting with it.
 
I'm seeing Prey (2017) slander in this thread, and I'm tired of seeing it. Name me one other game that allows you to recycle people a lá Soylent Green. It's peak serial killer energy and I love it.
The game is flawed, though.

You don't get access to typhon powers until much later in the game, and while you can always just rush ahead to get your hands on the psychoscope, it's not something a new player will have knowledge of. There was no reason not to have a psychoscope in Morgan's office, as an example.

The psychoscope/suit chips largely feel like an afterthought, and resource management falls apart very quickly because the devs were deadly afraid of players having to struggle. The various skills and powers are imbalanced (not unique to the game tbh), enemy variety is nonexistent, you can tell a lot of content was cut from the final game, certain side quests are beyond awful, the hacking minigame has to be one of the worst, if not the worst in the genre etc.

It's still one of the best imsims around, but it is also a heavily flawed game.

Also, fuck whoever came up with the idea of endlessly spawning, laser-spamming bots near the endgame.

Also also, I wish more imsim devs would do what Gloomwood with the saving system, to force you to actually engage with the game's mechanics and get creative when you inevitably fuck up and get detected.

Hey buddy if you're not going to talk about video games you like and just sperg about da joos then please go back to A&N
How about you suck a cock?

Why aren't you calling out the faggot that brought the topic up in the first place?
 
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