BioShock, System Shock and other Immersive Sims and "Shock-likes" - or just the ImSim Thread

[Korpon]

Immersive Sim best genre

Bioshock 1 I personally could never get into, it was perfectly alright gameplay wise once I got past technical issues I encountered, and overall I enjoyed my time with it, Rapture as a setting is still one of the best settings shown in a video game, but I just wasn't really "wowed" by it like many others were. Doesn't help the game is also Jewish propaganda as well as mentioned prior in American Krogan's video.

Bioshock 2 was kino tho and the best

Infinite is more Ken Levine bullshit, yet again another cool ass setting but I don't think I need to explain all the attempts at subversion in that game. The gameplay itself was mid to me and the story was completely retarded and made no sense; hate to mention a YooToob man again but Mathewmattosis' video on it goes into detail on how dumb the whole timeline shit is. Writers in general really need to stop trying to do time travel/alt timeline shit cause 95% of them can never get it right. I still wouldn't have minded seeing the original version they had planned for it tho.

System Shock 1 and 2 are aryan but I refuse to play the remakes (the remake of 2 is incredibly pointless as well, literally just play the original with the fan patch lmao. Actual scam they pulled by taking the original off Steam and putting that """remaster""" up which has its own newly introduced bugs and glitches.)

Prey I have constantly heard differing things on, some people put it in really high acclaim and insist I should play it, but then over and over again I'll hear it's a slog and has a bunch of shit in it.

Doom 3 I really tried to finish but I just couldn't, it's a really painfully boring game. There was a period of time when I was a teen and had no Internet but I had a few games pirated to my PC, and one of them was Doom 3, and despite all that free time I tried getting into it multiple times but never could bring myself to finish it, I ended up going to the local library instead. Shit is way too dark, enemies spawning directly in front of or behind you is dogshit game design, all the guns feel weak (actual sin as well with the shotgun being lame, FPS shotties should always be as satisfying as possible), and of course the common criticism of it being too fucking dark, actually laughable there was no flashlight on your person or guns in the original version, and then you had "purists" try and claim the BFG version of the game is bad for adding the flashlight in, cause apparently never seeing where you're going or what's in front of you is le good and scawy game design, no it's fucking trash bro.

 

[regalterry]

This thread is for discussing games within the "Shock-like" Genre. Basically any game similar to System Shock or BioShock. While there are threads talking about BioShock and System Shock, I couldn't find one a general discussion thread for either. I figured making a general thread was the proper move given BioShock is pretty much a spiritual successor to System Shock, and most Shock-likes are one-offs not really warranting a separate thread.

Why didn't you list Ultima Underworld I and II, you uneducated nigger?

There's also games like Gloomwood, Ctrl Alt Ego and Arx Fatalis, Monomyth that all fit into this category in different ways.

Gloomwood lets you research enemies and turn their body parts into serums you can inject to gain new powers, Ctrl Alt Ego has you stuck on a space station trying to put a stop to an alien threat, Arx Fatalis and Monomyth have the whole weapons+powers/magic that System Shock 2 and BioShock borrowed from UU.

Then you could arguably list Dead Space games in here too, since the first Dead Space was originally meant to be a System Shock spiritual successor before the devs saw Resident Evil 4, and the games draw a lot of inspiration from Doom 3 regardless.

There's also a myriad of other im sims, like Deus Ex, that was worked on by a lot of people that made SS2. The Thief games were made by the same studio that did System Shock 1 and 2.

It really depends whether you're looking for games that play like BioShock, or games that have the same ancestors as BioShock.

Prey I have constantly heard differing things on, some people put it in really high acclaim and insist I should play it, but then over and over again I'll hear it's a slog and has a bunch of shit in it.

Prey is actually great as an im sim, so many different ways to approach situations, very cool ways different systems interact with each other, and the GLOO Cannon is the single best new thing introduced to im sims since their inception, and a copy of it should be included in every new game in the genre.

There are things that Prey doesn't do well. The enemy variety is minuscule, and the combat is the weakest aspect of the game. There's also woke in the game, with one section involving two dykes that has to be one of the cringiest things in gaming.

That being said, if you're a fan of the genre, I recommend playing the game at least once.

 

[Pod 042]

Amazing intro. Genuinely, it may be the most compelling first 20-30 minutes of any video game ever. And then every nanosecond of the rest of the game is an agonizing slog.

Interesting, can you elaborate? I've played through it every year since release pretty much(it's an October staple) so I'm in the opposite camp.

I've tried to play it a couple times now, people all go on about how amazing it is, but I just get bored of it and quit around the top of the station greenhouse thing place.

The game is fairly linear leading up to the arboretum. It acts as a psudo tutorial. Just after that it opens up more.

Prey punishes you for using mimic mods with the station security but those mods are the only ones that do anything interesting.

Yah...thats the point. Typhon nuromods are much more powerful from the get go(mimic is busted) it's meant as a trade off for immediate player power. Human nuromods are very good later(arguably better than Typhon powers) but require investment, so they are the safe option.

their level design feels more like just 3 different options put in front of you with some kind of ability restriction that all lead to the same place, rather than actual freedom to approach something.

I'm sorry but that's a you problem, the station is mostly open and your given the tools you need at the start to go wherever you want. You can sequence break the game easily with mimic or the huntress bolt caster(nerf crossbow). Many other parts of the game are designed around you doing/finding things early as NPCs have different dialogue if you have already found/done something they were going to ask about. Here's a list off hand of the stupid shit you can do with just basic stuff.

Spoiler: Exploring talos with bullshit

-you can reach new arrivals processing in the lobby with the gloo cannon getting a shotgun very early and setting up something for later
-almost any blocked room can be accessed with mimic and a nerf dart+careful placement or a recycler charge, no leverage needed
-all locked doors have overrides opposite the doorway or on a terminal, throw paper or nerf darts to open them
-nerf darts interact with touchscreens, this is applicable everywhere
-you will be locked out of nuromod production at some point. Bypass this entire quest by unlocking calvinos office in the beginning with a nerf dart bounced off of the globe in his office
-the human nuromods can be complely broken. With max recycling and recycler charges you can deconstruct everything on the station giving you effectively infinite resources.
-if you do the above you can recycle Typhon en mass and craft enough nuromods to basically have every skill before mid game

I can understand not liking it, the game is definitely not a masterpiece. But it's the definition of a "you get out what you put in" game. If you're looking for a BioShock like experience, prey ain't it. But if you want to min max your efforts and become the mad king janny of talos, recycling everything and everyone to turn them into nuromods and bullets it can be very fun.

 

[Tsukasa Kadoya]

Also, Infinite IMO has the worst combat. I thought they put a lot less emphasis on utilizing vigors unlike plasmids.

Holy shit dude Infinite's combat is bad. Honestly vigors were basically useless outside of the few times you NEEDED to use them for puzzles or progression, unlike plasmids which were much more fun to use and had tons of applications.
The only weapon I liked in Infinite was the Hand Cannon due to most weapons being so bland and uninteresting.

 

[robobobo]

I am on team yay Prey, but I like slow and methodical exploration and weaseling into difficult spots to steal peoples' stuff and Prey is geared heavily towards that. If you just want to run and gun it's probably a poor fit. And yeah, the human neuromods are amply powerful, I did all-human on my first playthrough and running around with maxed-out guns and bullet time is more powerful IMO than the Typhon toys, albeit less interesting.

 

[Star Classic]

I don't give a shit if people dunked on it, Bioshock 2 was the best in the series.

Might as well be, I think they did everything right. I think the story is even better than Bio1's, but I digress. I really never understood why people disliked it at launch, maybe it has technical problems. It's also the only BioShock with a multiplayer, which is pretty fun.

Holy shit dude Infinite's combat is bad. Honestly vigors were basically useless outside of the few times you NEEDED to use them for puzzles or progression, unlike plasmids which were much more fun to use and had tons of applications.
The only weapon I liked in Infinite was the Hand Cannon due to most weapons being so bland and uninteresting.

Eh. Personally I think the combat is one of the saving graces of Infinite, and it must've been at launch given they made a whole DLC based off it. I'll actually say something controversial and I think Infinite had a sort-of right idea with limited armaments', it just went way too far.

Putting aside a lot of the subversion covered in American Krogan's "The Ethnic Struggle",

This guy sets off my grift-dar, no thanks.

-quest arrow at the top pointing you where to go
-important items highlighted in gold
-Vita-chambers (which are on by default) means you can just throw yourself at enemies,

Pretty sure those can all be disabled, not that it's an excuse but still. The quest arrow was a late development addition since I guess Irrational hired the same playtesters Valve did, and at the very least they made the quest arrow make sense within the story. I still like it since it tells me to go the opposite direction so I can explore the level instead.

-4-5 enemy types that are recycled all throughout the game. Late game enemies are bullet sponges.

-The camera upgrade system and hacking slows down the gameplay.

Fair, I actually hated BioShock 1 the first time I played because I didn't know you could just spam the camera to get all the rewards early, which the game almost requires you to do by the time you reach Hephaestus. Nowadays I have the opposite problem because BioShock 1 is incredibly easy to break over the head, and the only good difficulty is locked behind the "remaster"

 

[Star Classic]

So you call immersive sims "Shock-likes?"

Instead of calling my dick big, I call it a Biggus-like.

there I changed it.

 

[big pauper]

Bioshock 1 I personally could never get into, it was perfectly alright gameplay wise once I got past technical issues I encountered, and overall I enjoyed my time with it, Rapture as a setting is still one of the best settings shown in a video game, but I just wasn't really "wowed" by it like many others were. Doesn't help the game is also Jewish propaganda as well as mentioned prior in American Krogan's video.

is this because the game is using ayn rand's philosophy as a sock puppet to push a self destructive version of her ideology as a scapegoat against the encroaching iron curtain of both capitalism and communism? Because they tell you that's what the game is going to be about in the opening film where andrew ryan sits you down and explains the plot of the fucking game to you in the bathysphere

or is this because ayn rand was a jew

 

[Spud]

but require investment,

Once you get the recycler charge, resources becomes a question of how many physic objects can I pile into a corner before throwing one.

 

[Star Classic]

is this because the game is using ayn rand's philosophy as a sock puppet to push a self destructive version of her ideology as a scapegoat against the encroaching iron curtain of both capitalism and communism? Because they tell you that's what the game is going to be about in the opening film where andrew ryan sits you down and explains the plot of the fucking game to you in the bathysphere

Yeah, BioShock was never the "smart" game, it is a game after all.

or is this because ayn rand was a jew

Probably this.

 

[Korpon]

is this because the game is using ayn rand's philosophy as a sock puppet to push a self destructive version of her ideology as a scapegoat against the encroaching iron curtain of both capitalism and communism? Because they tell you that's what the game is going to be about in the opening film where andrew ryan sits you down and explains the plot of the fucking game to you in the bathysphere

or is this because ayn rand was a jew

No, because Ken Levine is a Jew and almost every character is a Jew including Ryan, and he even gave an interview saying the game is about Jewishness or some shit like that, it's been awhile

 

[Love Is Blue]

it's somewhat funny that the moral choice in bioshock is save or kill kids

 

[Maniacal Foreigner]

This guy sets off my grift-dar, no thanks.

If he is a grifter, he's not very successful at it. (He's not, and his series on Bioshock is pretty good and informative)

 

[Love Is Blue]

speaking of bioshock

 

[Star Classic]

it's somewhat funny that the moral choice in BioShock is save or kill kids

Had Levine/whoever gotten his way the ADAM difference between harvesting/saving would've been much greater than it is ingame. I'm glad they didn't because it would've ended up to similar situation to what people are describing with Dishonored.

On the more meta end it is funny that people still try to say that Ryan had the right idea or that Rapture would've worked when both the game's own storytelling and good ending requiring altruism to obtain proves that false.

speaking of bioshock
https://youtube.com/watch?v=l_u18_BKczg

This is me but unironically. They can never make me hate Infinite. I will defend it till I die.

 

[Asian tech support]

Bioshock isn't an immy simmy and we have a thread for all things Arkane. That said I like Prey and it's probably going to be the last AAA imsim (or however you'd like to define the genre) worth playing we see for a long long time.
The indie scene on the other hand is a different story entirely. Monomyth, Gloomwood, and Sonar Shock were all mentioned, I'll add RetroSpace to that.

 

[Star Classic]

I also forgot about Skin Deep which came out a couple months, which was advertising itself as an ImSim. I remember playing the demo, but not really being impressed. Maybe someone else has something to say about it.

 

[big pauper]

Yeah, BioShock was never the "smart" game, it is a game after all.

it has a point and clearly communicates it through every facet of it's design so i really don't know what more people want out of a game that's trying to say something. Jurassic park does the same shit and it's generally regarded as a great movie not because it's some kind of brilliant intellectual examination of man playing god but because it communicates all of it's points through symbolism a retard can understand, like giving a neckbeard shaving cream, or the helicopter having two female seatbelts. bioshock is pretty much operating on the same level, the first thing you see in the game is literally a statue of the final boss holding up a sign that explicitly states his goals and motivations. This is just the basics of storytelling

half life 2 does the same thing, what happens to you in the teleporter in kleiner's lab is literally entire macro plot of the game told to you in 30 seconds. mossman has responsibility she's going to falter on, and a rogue element of nature will jump in and fuck the whole system up.

 

[The Evil Midnight Bomber]

This guy sets off my grift-dar, no thanks.

It's broken then, he was so offensive (i.e. he made good points) he basically got erased off of Youtube. His dismemberment of RDR2 was great, too.

 

[Harvey Danger]

On the more meta end it is funny that people still try to say that Ryan had the right idea or that Rapture would've worked when both the game's own storytelling and good ending requiring altruism to obtain proves that false.

It's not that Ryan is right, exactly. But the writing (Levine) is desperately trying to pretend his philosophy and morality was wrong because... a new sea slug extract let people inject superhuman abilities and become tweakers. That's the immediate reason for Rapture's downfall, not because of greed or anti-government sentiment or even regular hubris. It's lame as a "counter argument", but the game pretends it's conclusive.

(Fontaine moves things along but was defeated by Ryan; Jack, the protagonist sleeper agent, wasn't activated until Rapture fell apart.)

Ryan did not earn his downfall. Or at least, he didn't earn it in a way that validates the criticisms of his ideals.