Opinion Why Europe Still Misreads America - Why Germans fear American religion, and what this reveals about Europe.

Link (Archive)

In my family, Sunday coffee was a blood sport. My grandfather, a former Wehrmacht soldier, stood on the political Right. My aunt, a passionate participant in the 1968 student movement, stood on the Left. Almost the only thing they agreed upon was their antipathy to Americans, expressed with identical certainty from opposite ends of the kitchen table. I was ten years old when I started paying attention to this. It was the late 1970s, and I watched political talk shows and Lou Grant—the American newsroom drama set at the fictional Los Angeles Tribune—with equal fascination. I tried to understand why the adults around me enthusiastically consumed American culture even as they denounced the country that produced it.
The standard narrative places the origins of European anti-Americanism somewhere around the Iraq War. The real history is older and stranger. In 1761, the French naturalist Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon, published his hypothesis that the New World was biologically “degenerate”—everything in America, he claimed, was smaller, weaker, and less vital than in Europe, including the people. Thomas Jefferson was so incensed that he had a stuffed moose shipped to Paris to prove Buffon wrong. The German poet Heinrich Heine, meanwhile, called America “that pig-pen of freedom, inhabited by boors living in equality.”

What interests me about these early critics is not their inaccuracy but their consistency. The specific complaints change every generation—too primitive, too powerful, too capitalist, too confident—but the underlying mechanism does not. You do not spend 276 years obsessing over something you merely dislike. That is the behaviour of someone working through a deeper anxiety.
I identified this pattern through experience. A German engineer drives a Tesla to work, uses Google for research, streams Netflix at night, and delivers a confident lecture about American cultural shallowness over dinner. A German politician tweets outrage about American climate policy from a country that had to reopen coal plants after it shut down its nuclear reactors. The pattern transcends political affiliation: during the Trump years, I watched the German Left discover a passion for criticising America that the German Right had practised for generations. The vocabulary changed—from “American vulgarity” to “threats to the liberal order”—but the emotional register was identical. My grandfather and my aunt said “damn Yanks” with the same conviction, and their political grandchildren have inherited this bipartisan reflex intact.

But there is one aspect that cuts deeper than debates about foreign policy or capitalism, and that is religion. When German observers confront American religiosity, something happens that goes beyond cultural criticism. It triggers genuine bewilderment that often shades into alarm. According to 2022 data, 37 percent of Americans describe religion as “very important” in their lives. In Germany, the figure is thirteen percent. For most European intellectuals, this God gap confirms a simple diagnosis: that America is backward and still awaiting the secularisation that Europe completed decades ago.

It should be noted that the gap is a lot narrower than it has been in recent years. In 2007, 56 percent of Americans described religion as “very important” in their lives. Church attendance and daily prayer have declined in parallel. On its face, this trajectory appears to confirm the European expectation that America is secularising, merely more slowly. But the character of American secularisation differs from Europe’s in ways that matter.
First, the decline appears to have stabilised; Pew’s most recent data show relatively little volatility since 2020 across key indicators. Second, America’s religiously unaffiliated—now roughly 28 percent of adults—are not secular in the German sense. Most still profess belief in God or a higher power; they have rejected institutions more than metaphysics. Third, the civic infrastructure built by American churches over two centuries does not vanish when attendance declines. Traditions of voluntary association, local self-organisation, philanthropy, and lay leadership persist beyond formal membership. The institutional habits outlast the theology.

The discrepancy between Europe and the US may have begun as far back as the Reformation. Both Germany and America are children of Protestant theology, but they are children who drew radically different lessons from the same parent. Luther taught submission to temporal authority, as in Romans 13:1: “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities.” The good Lutheran was obedient, orderly, and deeply suspicious of enthusiasm. Faith was a private matter, not a source of public energy. Certain strands of German Protestant political theology tended toward hierarchy, deference to credentialed authority, and a melancholy inwardness that shaped political culture for centuries—with consequences that ranged from impressive institutional discipline to, in its darker moments, a dangerous vulnerability to authoritarian appeals.
Calvin taught something different. Prosperity was a sign of divine favour. Work was a calling. The community of believers was a voluntary association of equals. When Calvinists arrived in America—Puritans, Huguenots, Presbyterians, Dutch Reformed—they brought a theology that was essentially entrepreneurial. American churches became competitive enterprises: they innovate, market, fail, merge, reinvent. European state churches, by contrast, operate like monopolies: they are funded by taxes, governed by bureaucracies, responsive to no one in particular.
The result, over four centuries, was two fundamentally different institutional environments built on the same Reformation foundation. To understand America without understanding this divergence is like trying to understand water without knowing about hydrogen. And this is where European analysis most consistently fails. The misunderstanding is not about theology—it is about institutions. The secret of American religion is not that Americans believe more, but that they organise better.

Go to an American church—any church, from a black Baptist congregation in Atlanta to a Pentecostal megachurch in Texas—and watch what happens outside the sanctuary. People organise. They raise money. They speak in public. They debate governance. They manage budgets, staff, and real estate. They build networks that cross racial, economic, and professional lines. They practise the skills of democratic self-governance every single week, in an environment that is voluntary, competitive, and answerable to its members.
Tocqueville noticed this in 1835, and it remains true today. American churches are not just places of worship; they are arguably the most distributed civic training network in modern history. The skills Americans develop in churches—public speaking, fundraising, community organising, conflict resolution, leadership—transfer directly into business, politics, and civil society. This is the social capital, in Robert Putnam’s terminology, that American religious life generates as a byproduct of its primary mission. Where Europe centralised faith in monumental institutions, America decentralised it into networks of voluntary association. When European intellectuals dismiss American religiosity as irrational, they are dismissing the most powerful engine of voluntary civic life in the modern world—without understanding the institutional incentive structure that makes it work.
There is one more observation that I think deserves consideration, though it will not make me popular on either side of the Atlantic. The Great Awakenings that periodically swept America—in the 1730s, the 1800s, the 1850s, and the 1970s—share a recognisable architecture: a conviction of moral crisis, a call to purification, a division between the enlightened and the benighted, and a promise of transformation through collective commitment to new values.
The progressive movement that has significantly influenced Western institutional culture since roughly 2014 exhibits a strikingly similar structure: moral crisis (systemic injustice), purification ritual (acknowledgment of privilege), insider–outsider boundary (the awakened and the unawakened), and transformative promise (equity, diversity, inclusion). In my religious youth, I was told not to listen to the Rolling Stones because they were “devil worshippers.” Today, speakers are disinvited from universities because their ideas are “harmful.” The vocabulary has changed. The cognitive architecture has not.
This is not a polemical point but an analytical one. If the parallel holds, it suggests that secular Europe has not transcended religious patterns of thought so much as adopted them without the institutional infrastructure—the self-correcting mechanisms, the theological traditions of internal debate—that organised religion has developed over millennia. American religion, for all its excesses, has centuries of experience managing the tension between conviction and tolerance. The newer secular variants have none. The question is whether they will develop such mechanisms, or whether the absence of them will prove costly.

Europe’s most secular major nation is obsessed with the West’s most religious one. The obsession exists not despite the religious difference but because of it. American faith represents an alternative institutional model—decentralised, voluntary, competitive—that generates civic energy in ways European state structures do not. Understanding this model on its own terms, rather than through European assumptions about what secularisation should look like, is not merely an academic exercise. It is a prerequisite for any serious transatlantic relationship.

Americans have many problems. An inability to argue is not one of them. The God gap is not a measure of backwardness. It is a difference in institutional imagination—one that shapes civic energy, social capital, and ultimately political resilience.
 
Happenings must be slowing down if muh religion is the new hot topic in jewnoland
Religion is the new hot topic because the current administration outright admitted one of the goals of the Iran war is wiping out Israel's enemies to enable the construction of the 3rd temple and fulfill a retarded Evangelical biblical interpretation. Which Evangelicals pretend is super ancient and totally proven theology, but was actually made up in the 1800s in America by schizos (not the good kind) and popularized by Zionists and philosemite grifters beginning in the 1950s.
 
fact that your country is only 300 years old
This is silly cope that doesn't stand up to any real intellectual analysis. Your country in its current form is likely much much younger, the US has had the same constitution for 238 years -- its the oldest enforced constitution in world. Its a dubious claim to say modern day Germany is really descended from the HRE. Or that the modern Italian state is connected to Rome. Or that modern China is connected to the Qing dynasty. You have old national myths, but your country in its current form is younger then the US.
 
You have old national myths, but your country in its current form is younger then the US.
It's a point about architecture, history, culture, etc... and not about the current regime here. The French Republic hate everything that came before, but as Frenchies we consider ourselves to belong to a country which is 1600 years old, we're France since the Clovis Baptism at least.
It's still a pointless banter though, it doesn't have to be taken seriously.
 
Frenchies we consider ourselves to belong to a country which is 1600 years old, we're France since the Clovis Baptism at least.
Which is silly, that's just a national myth, there is no true continuity there. If the CSA had defeated the Union in 1865 and annexed Washington D.C. that would've been the start of a new country, not a continuation of the USA, it wouldn't've mattered that the White House was built 65 years earlier by the Union.

A country is a nation and it's government occupying a territory. If a government fundamentally changes its no longer the same country.

It's still a pointless banter though, it doesn't have to be taken seriously.
Sure, but when this is said its usually meant to say something akin to "the US is young and will not be around for a long time, it collapse will come soon."

Europeans have complete amnesia for 20th century history. Another widespread land war in Europe is more likely then the US losing its superpower status in the next 100 years.

I should add, I do think Europe was better off when they were all francophiles though
 
Última edición:
Sure, but when this is said its usually meant to say something akin to "the US is young and will not be around for a long time, it collapse will come soon."

Europeans have complete amnesia for 20th century history. Another widespread land war in Europe is more likely then the US losing its superpower status in the next 100 years.

I should add, I do think Europe was better off when they were all francophiles though
Yeah, the USA has managed to survive as a nation and a government for over 200 years, even with a four-year-long civil war. The French Fourth Republic lasted all of 12 years after WW2 before a coup forced its collapse and the rise of the Fifth Republic. France pretty much did collapse as a result of the Franco-Prussian War with the rise of the Third Republic and the Paris Commune, the latter of which killed two generals, the Archbishop of Paris, and required a full week of fighting inside the capital to put down, along with 15,000 of its own members, either in battle or just summarily executed.
 
Religion is the new hot topic
If by new you mean the entire history of the human race then yes, very new.
It will always be relevant to discuss who we are, where we came from, and where we're going.
Jesus was and is the third temple and he was already torn down and raised back up.
 
It's a point about architecture, history, culture, etc... and not about the current regime here. The French Republic hate everything that came before, but as Frenchies we consider ourselves to belong to a country which is 1600 years old, we're France since the Clovis Baptism at least.
It's still a pointless banter though, it doesn't have to be taken seriously.
Which doesn’t work either as a point of attack. Americans didn’t spring from the ground in 1609. Before that they’re English. All the other immigration is assimilating into an English substrate. I can walk the unique American liberal tradition all the way back to dark Ages common law origins and the Anglo-Saxon Witenegamot.

Note that you don’t see this used on Canadians or Australians, either. No political rupture = People recognize they’re just British with a different state
 
Which doesn’t work either as a point of attack. Americans didn’t spring from the ground in 1609. Before that they’re English. All the other immigration is assimilating into an English substrate. I can walk the unique American liberal tradition all the way back to dark Ages common law origins and the Anglo-Saxon Witenegamot.

Note that you don’t see this used on Canadians or Australians, either. No political rupture = People recognize they’re just British with a different state
1773376196151.png
Here's a replica of Magna Carta on display in the Capitol Rotunda, and an exemplified copy of the 1297 charter is stored in the National Archives, on permanent loan from its owner, David Rubenstein, who despite being a private equity Jew still declared it to be the basis for the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and well... he's pretty much right considering it forms the basis of the idea of rule by consent. You cannot separate America from England any more than you can separate the Commonwealth from it. All of the Founding Fathers were proud of their British heritage and their rights as Englishmen (until of course they weren't thanks to Britain spitting on those rights), and even after independence our first decision on international relations was between being friends with the French who had fought with us against the English or... the English, who we had just fought against to secure our independence and would fight against again relatively soon.

We all know which side got picked in the end, and thank fucking God.
 
If by new you mean the entire history of the human race then yes, very new.
It will always be relevant to discuss who we are, where we came from, and where we're going.
I agree with this in general. Just pointing out that current events have brought certain aspects of a particular religion(s) into discussion.
Jesus was and is the third temple and he was already torn down and raised back up.
I agree with this. But Evangelicals don't believe that, they believe (as do Zionists) that the Third Temple is supposed to be a physical building in Jerusalem. According to them its construction will allow the 2nd coming of Christ according to Evangelicals or the 1st coming of the Messiah according to Zionists. Yes, it's not supported by the New Testament and no Christians believed this pre-1800s, that's why I called it retarded. But nevertheless destroying Islam as a political force so that the Third Temple can be built without interruption is literally one of the stated objectives of America aiding Israel in its wars. And yes, I also think this is retarded.
 
A country is a nation and it's government occupying a territory. If a government fundamentally changes its no longer the same country.
I don't agree with this. A country is mostly the people living in it, their culture, their history. I don't think France is another country every time we had a new Republic. It still deserves some nuances though, as the government impact the way of living of the people, but I don't think the fracture is that great in the case of France. It's way more important for America, as it became another country in another place than England.

Sure, but when this is said its usually meant to say something akin to "the US is young and will not be around for a long time, it collapse will come soon."
I don't think I've seen it to say the US will collapse soon, but mostly to dismiss your culture as "barbaric" and "unevolved". Of course, I don't think it's the case, Europe have a superiority complex about the rest of the world but don't seem to understand how low we are now.

Yeah, the USA has managed to survive as a nation and a government for over 200 years, even with a four-year-long civil war. The French Fourth Republic lasted all of 12 years after WW2 before a coup forced its collapse and the rise of the Fifth Republic. France pretty much did collapse as a result of the Franco-Prussian War with the rise of the Third Republic and the Paris Commune, the latter of which killed two generals, the Archbishop of Paris, and required a full week of fighting inside the capital to put down, along with 15,000 of its own members, either in battle or just summarily executed.
The Republic regularly fought with the rest of the country, it's a complicated history. The main reason the Fifth Republic is more stable than the other ones is because De Gaulle was a fervent monarchist and built the constitution to make the President a king in disguise.
As we talk, Macron is able to take a full dictatorship of the country if he wants to, it's legally allowed in the constitution. No president ever used it, but it exists.

Which doesn’t work either as a point of attack. Americans didn’t spring from the ground in 1609. Before that they’re English. All the other immigration is assimilating into an English substrate. I can walk the unique American liberal tradition all the way back to dark Ages common law origins and the Anglo-Saxon Witenegamot.
Yeah, it's not based on reality, it's mostly stupid banter coming from an European superiority complex.

ote that you don’t see this used on Canadians or Australians, either. No political rupture = People recognize they’re just British with a different state
As French we never think about Canada or Australia :lol:
Canada is the strange US but British country where there's Quebec, our French cousins living in America. Australia is the terrifying place full of English prisoners and creatures that wants to kill you.
 
You wanna make Europe Catholic again? It's gonna take one person at a time. It will require you to plant the seeds of a tree whose shade you will never sit beneath.
Rome has a fairly strong presence in Europe given Vatican City is there, though I'd note Biblical Christianity would be the way to go instead. Not just for theological reasons, though in relation to a growing Muslim population, there are smaller Japhetic Christian groups who have more children than most of the host population. Note using this video as an example, don't know everything about their theology:
I think it reveals that Europe is a glorified caliphate.
Western Europe I'd say so, given a lot of the host population seems to be incredibly secularized. Eastern Europe is more religious though.
It's a point about architecture, history, culture, etc... and not about the current regime here. The French Republic hate everything that came before, but as Frenchies we consider ourselves to belong to a country which is 1600 years old, we're France since the Clovis Baptism at least.
It's still a pointless banter though, it doesn't have to be taken seriously.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Protestant/Evangelical Christianity had a smaller but growing presence in France?
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Protestant/Evangelical Christianity had a smaller but growing presence in France?
It's mostly related to subsaharians immigrants. France Christianity is still Catholic in majority, but as Evangelics grows in Africa, and Africans demographics grows in France, France see a growing Evangelical presence.
 
Canada is the strange US but British country where there's Quebec, our French cousins living in America. Australia is the terrifying place full of English prisoners and creatures that wants to kill you.
Isn't this the picture everyone has? (except the cousin thing)
 
There's a community life, choirs, a young adult group, some associations, etc... But if you want to learn about it, you need to ask specifically to someone if there's something existing.

It’s probably a question of infrastructure and history. As an Australian Catholic, I grew up in a country where no religion was established, but Protestants initially had more social power. Catholics (at first Irish convicts and a French priest) had to band together to build their own networks, parishes and organisations for social welfare. Unlike the French, we neither had it associated with an ancien regime, nor had to rebel against it. And the structures we built were for a society which wasn’t 100% Catholic, whereas France’s Catholic infrastructure presumably reflects the fact that for centuries there was no need for the church to carve out an identity separate to society.

In Australia those organisations for social welfare included schools. Australia has a robust private school sector which is publicly subsidised on the theory that if the child wasn’t at a private school the taxpayer would have to bear the entire cost. The first religious schools were Catholic, built next to the parish church and parish hall.

So I went to a local Catholic primary school next to my church, and then to a Catholic secondary school in another parish, again right next to the parish church. Family members served on the parish council. The parish newsletter and school both promoted community organisations, and reinforced each other’s messages. Nowadays there are social media groups connected with the parish, social media groups for parents of children at your local Catholic school, and morning tea after Mass to encourage connections between parishioners. The infrastructure is all there to encourage community and volunteering outside of Mass.
 
This is silly cope that doesn't stand up to any real intellectual analysis. Your country in its current form is likely much much younger, the US has had the same constitution for 238 years -- its the oldest enforced constitution in world. Its a dubious claim to say modern day Germany is really descended from the HRE. Or that the modern Italian state is connected to Rome. Or that modern China is connected to the Qing dynasty. You have old national myths, but your country in its current form is younger then the US.
Also, even if I grant them their millennia long history?

If it only takes 250-ish years to go from nothing to parity with the Great Powers of the world?

How good was your 2,000 year old Empire?

But it's all just a cope indeed in the end.....
Canada is the strange US but British country where there's Quebec, our French cousins living in America. Australia is the terrifying place full of English prisoners and creatures that wants to kill you.
No love for US Cajuns?

The fact we somehow bred a strain of Redneck that speaks French should count for something!

We all know which side got picked in the end, and thank fucking God.
We are forever in debt to the French Government's inability to not be French when it's practical that they soured the chance to be US eternal besties right off the bat because they demanded a bribe to even meet with their diplomatic corps.
 
If it only takes 250-ish years to go from nothing to parity with the Great Powers of the world?

How good was your 2,000 year old Empire?
Well, most of the Great Powers became Great Powers in a short period. The Napoleonic Era lasted less than 20 years. In 250 years, Spain did the reconquest of half of their territory from the Muslims and started the colonization. In 100 years, Japan stopped to be an isolationist island to one of the most powerful empire in the world, and fell to the US. History can go really fast.

No love for US Cajuns?

The fact we somehow bred a strain of Redneck that speaks French should count for something!
Personally, I love them, but they aren't well known here in France. It's sad, because they seems like fun people.
 
I'm sure it is probably a lot. Granted, I'd guess it would only be in the hundreds of millions without figures in front of me, which in the grand scheme of things, is not that much. But do you honestly think that if (inshallah) all illegals and niggers disappeared tomorrow, that we would suddenly get free healthcare?
This is wildly incorrect. In 2024, California became the first state to offer full coverage for illegals. It had been a long time coming as they'd been gradually iterating that way for a decade with smaller moves.

As a result, costs exploded. In 2024, California/feds estimated it would "only" cost $3 billion to $6 billion for 2024-2025. However a year later that number was revised to $9.5 billion. Which has caused an intense budget crisis for California, when Donald Trump cut California's Medicaid spending, because California was using Medicaid (federal) dollars for the expansion to illegals. Which has since caused California idiots to push for a wealth tax instead of cutting spending on illegals.

To be clear, this is somewhat of a sleight of hand, because it is actually a bailout of California hospital systems. Under federal law, any hospital that has an emergency department and accepts Medicare cannot deny services on a patient's ability to pay. Illegals get free healthcare in every single state, not just California, by flooding emergency rooms directly. To be clear, this is true for everyone in America, not just illegals, and was a motivating factor in passing Obamacare -- because uninsured Americans would not pay in to insurance but would receive expensive care from emergency services that they wouldn't pay for, and the Democrats thought they could solve the issue by requiring every American to have health insurance.

Normally, the hospitals eat the bills for the illegals who don't pay but do receive services. They pass on the cost of illegals to paying customers -- generally insurers (by proxy of most Americans having insurance) and the federal government (for people on Medicare and Medicaid) -- by raising prices for healthcare services.

But this is a problem when you have Biden open the border to millions of new illegals. The hospitals suddenly are providing a lot more care to illegals and they get strapped for liquidity as they need to adjust to charge the paying customers (insurers and the government) more to cover it. Hence why California did what they did because illegals are allegedly (probably low) 11% of the state's population. If California just immediately offers to pay for the illegals (instead of having the hospitals manage the issue by raising prices for paying patients), it can resolve the liquidity problem for the health care providers. Except when you do that, suddenly there is a very transparent record of how much healthcare services the illegals are using (here, seems to be just shy of $10 billion for California), rather than the opaque model other states have.

So the answer isn't "in the hundreds of millions", rather it is potentially in the hundreds of billions each year (and at least $9.5 billion as we see for California). That's very very real money and a huge issue.
It's not about them, it's about greedy billionaires being completely unwilling to pay as much in taxes as someone who makes $100k a year. If billionaires paid proportionally as much as you in tax (you do have a job right?), you could have every nigger in the country scamming every hospital, and I'd imagine it would still be more affordable for the average tax payer than the system we have now.
Yeah no this is obviously wrong too. People who make $100k a year barely contribute to our tax base because we tax our rich so much. We aren't like Europe where *everyone* gets fucked on taxes, we are largely exclusively funded by the rich. In 2021, analysis was that the top 1% of households by income pay around 46% of our federal income tax and the top 25% of households collectively pay about 89% of our federal income tax. In 2025, using recent survey data, you can estimate that the 25th percentile household income was around $153,000 and the threshold to be in the top 1% was $659,060. Households making less than $153,000 only contribute about 10% of the total federal income tax.

Now that's federal income tax. For California, in 2024, the state collected $76.7 billion in personal income tax. People who made more than $1 million paid 48% of that (you can do the math yourself at page 14 here).

And don't get started on "proportionality" as an argument, people who make $100k a year do not proportionally pay more than billionaires, they barely any anything. Feel free to play around with this fun tool and note the "total income taxes" as you change the income numbers. The only way you can start making proportionality arguments is if you include unrealized gains, but that would be stupid because they have not yet been realized.

You can argue the rich should pay more, I guess, but they are basically the only one's paying, so at least acknowledge that.
 
Atrás
Top Abajo