Christian theology thread for Christians - Deus homo factus est naturam erante, mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

[Squanto Airi]

This was one of the most profound truths that guided me to God. I realized I was only rebelling against or denying the Lord for selfish reasons, and only to indulge pointless pursuits and addictions. I've lost nothing and gained everything by simply accepting His authority and morality.

This mindset also helped me stay in the Faith. That, and, when looking back, how better my life mentally and spiritually is.

 

[Sooty Soot]

Recently, I've been rather lost when it comes to what I should call God, and while that question might sound foolish on the surface, it does have theological implications for me. Most Copts, Maronites, and Syriacs just call God Allah, but I have reservations regarding this since for all I know Allah really was just a Meccan lunar deity, and so it'd be like praying to God but calling him Baal or Moloch. I'm not sure if something like this has been encountered before, the Israelites started out worshipping God correctly so any idols of "El" or "YHWH" aren't the origin of the name and using them in reference to God would be alright, I believe early Christians used Theos or Kristos and then Deus post-Constantine, and the Slavic churches use "Boh" or some other variation which as far as I know aren't originally the name of a Pagan diety. Your advice would be appreciated.

 

[Squanto Airi]

what I should call God

I just call Him God the Father, if that is what you were alluding to.

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

You know, we haven't checked in on good ol' Redeemed Zoomer. Let's look at what he's been up to and-



I'm convinced he's baitposting on Xitter at this point.

 

[marlimar]

Recently, I've been rather lost when it comes to what I should call God, and while that question might sound foolish on the surface, it does have theological implications for me. Most Copts, Maronites, and Syriacs just call God Allah, but I have reservations regarding this since for all I know Allah really was just a Meccan lunar deity, and so it'd be like praying to God but calling him Baal or Moloch. I'm not sure if something like this has been encountered before, the Israelites started out worshipping God correctly so any idols of "El" or "YHWH" aren't the origin of the name and using them in reference to God would be alright, I believe early Christians used Theos or Kristos and then Deus post-Constantine, and the Slavic churches use "Boh" or some other variation which as far as I know aren't originally the name of a Pagan diety. Your advice would be appreciated.

He has given us a name above all names to praise, the name of Jesus.

 

[Dolomite]

Recently, I've been rather lost when it comes to what I should call God, and while that question might sound foolish on the surface, it does have theological implications for me. Most Copts, Maronites, and Syriacs just call God Allah, but I have reservations regarding this since for all I know Allah really was just a Meccan lunar deity, and so it'd be like praying to God but calling him Baal or Moloch. I'm not sure if something like this has been encountered before, the Israelites started out worshipping God correctly so any idols of "El" or "YHWH" aren't the origin of the name and using them in reference to God would be alright, I believe early Christians used Theos or Kristos and then Deus post-Constantine, and the Slavic churches use "Boh" or some other variation which as far as I know aren't originally the name of a Pagan diety. Your advice would be appreciated.

Spoiler: I'm no scholar, but here's my input

There’s no need to overthink it. The word "Allah" is a contraction of the Arabic "al-ilāh" (lit. "The God"), and serves as a descriptive title, not a proper name like Baal or Moloch. It is also a linguistic cognate of the Hebrew and Aramaic names for God ("Eloah" and "Alaha" respectively) found in the Bible; all three originated from the Proto-Semitic root for "deity." "Allah" was used by Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians alike before the advent of Islam.

While pre-Islamic pagans acknowledged "Allah," they were not "naming" a new god, but rather integrating and thereby bastardizing the same High God of the Jews and Christians into their polytheistic system.

Here are a couple of excerpts from this page:

32. As regards the 'basic' meaning of Allah, we may remark that many Western scholars have compared rightly -to my mind- the word in its formal aspect with the Greek "Ho Theos" which means quite simply 'the God'. On such an abstract level the name was common to all Arab tribes. In pre-Islamic times each tribe, as a rule, had its own local god or divinity known by a proper name. So, at first, each tribe may have meant its own local divinity, when it used an expression equivalent to "the God"; this is quite probable. But the very fact that people began to designate their own local divinity by the abstract form of "the God' must have paved, the way for the growth of an abstract notion of God without any localizing qualification and then, following this, for a belief in the supreme God common to all the tribes. We meet with similar instances all over the world. Besides, we must remember, there were the Jews and the Christians with whom the Arabs had constant opportunities of a close cultural contact. And naturally these Jews and Christians both used the same word Allah to denote their own Biblical God. This must have exerted a great influence on the development of the pre-Islamic concept of Allah among the Arabs towards a higher concept than that of a mere tribal divinity, not only among the town-dwellers but also among the pure Bedouins of the desert. However this may be, it is certain from the Koran alone, that by the time Muhammad began to preach, the pagan Arabs had come to cherish at least a vague idea, and perhaps also a vague belief, in Allah as the highest God standing above the level of local idols. This much we may reasonably assume as the 'basic' meaning, of the word Allah in Jahiliyah. And this much meaning, at least, must the word have carried into the Islamic system when the Koran began to use it as the name of the God of Islamic Revelation. For otherwise, as I have said, even a polemic discussion on this Islamic God could not have been possible between the Muslims and the Meccan pagans. " (God and Man in The Koran, Toshihiko Izutsu, Chapter 4: Allah, p96-119, 1980)

47. The Arabic word for 'God', Allah, is a contraction of al-ilah, which like the Greek ho theos simply means 'the god' but was commonly understood as 'the supreme god' or 'God'. It is possible that before the time of Muhammad the Meccan pagans used to indicate the principal deity of the Ka'bah, in the same way in which the deity worshipped at at-Ta'if was known simply as al-Lat, the goddess. If the word Allah was also used for God as acknowledged by Jews and Christians, the opportunities for confusion would be great. The probability therefore is that while some Meccans acknowledged God, they did not see that their old polytheistic beliefs were incompatible with belief in God and reject them. These premonitions of monotheism among the Arabs must have been due mainly to Christian and Jewish influences. The Arabs had many opportunities of contact with Christians and Jews. The Byzantine empire, whose power and higher civilization they greatly admired, was Christian, and so was Abyssinia. Even in the Persian empire Christianity was strong, and al-Hirah, the Persian vassal-state with which the Arabs were much in contact, was an outpost of the East Syrian or Nestorian Church. This combination of monotheism with military and political strength and a higher level of material civilization must have impressed the Arabs greatly. (Muhammad at Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, 1953, p 23-29)

And another excerpt from a page about the “lunar deity”:

There are a number of scholars who believe that Allah, was originally the name of the moon god of Northern Arabia. It is important to remember that the word "Allah" simply means "the god" and corresponds to "ho theos" in the Greek New Testament as "the God" which refers to the Father in John 1:1 and the Son in John 20:28 and Heb 1:8. What is interesting is that Hubal was the top pagan moon god of the Kabah. So Allah is the generic and Hubal, may have been the actual name, in the same way that "the God" is generic and "Jehovah" is the name. The Arabs may have referred to "Hubal" as "Allah", just like Jews would refer to "Jehovah" as "The God".

(More stuff about the moon god can be found here. I linked this disjointed non-denominational website only because it has some useful info on the background of Islam.)

In every language, Christians have repurposed existing generic words for "a god" and applied them to the One True God by adding the definite article (like "The God"); the English word "God" itself descended from Proto-Germanic *gudą, which was previously used by Germanic pagans to refer to their deities, such as Odin, before their conversion to Christianity.

Arab Christians have long used "Allah"** extensively in their liturgy, Bibles, and daily worship. To stop using it now would be to abandon their own ancient linguistic heritage. It doesn’t matter if Muslims and pagans used the word too, because it wasn't just "theirs."

I hope this clarifies things. God bless you on your path.

**as well as the title “al-Rabb” (the Lord) to refer to the Triune Godhead, Yasūʿ al-Masīḥ for Jesus Christ, and so on, but that's not the focus here

 

[Spooky Space Kook]

I would like to thank everyone in the thread for support, well wishes and prayers for my kitty. After an extended stay at the animal hospital and a large hole burnt in my wallet she is now home and starting on her path to recovery. I pray she continues to make a full recovery. I would post a picture but I don't want to phonebook myself as pretty much all my social media posts are just cat photos. God bless

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Autism wasn't created by vaccines.

Autism was created when a bunch of incel geeks started taking what a bunch of gay oiled philosophers too seriously.
I'm trying to unwravel the tangle of what all this council shit means and it's insane. Like Lovecraft it gets more insane the more I actually understand it.

 

[Neverender]

I'm trying to unwravel the tangle of what all this council shit means and it's insane. Like Lovecraft it gets more insane the more I actually understand it.

Where are you getting stuck?

 

[Slap47]

Autism wasn't created by vaccines.

Autism was created when a bunch of incel geeks started taking what a bunch of gay oiled philosophers too seriously.
I'm trying to unwravel the tangle of what all this council shit means and it's insane. Like Lovecraft it gets more insane the more I actually understand it.

Focusing on autism instead of governing an empire. Many such cases.

The Tang Dynasty and Habsburg Spain had a similar explosion in the number of priests/monks as their empires peaked and declined.

 

[Sooty Soot]

I'm reminded of a comment on an InspiringPhilosophy video, in which the comment talks about how almost every anti-Christian argument tends to fall six degrees to wanting to do hedonism without being judged.

Galatians 5:19-21.


Archive

 

[pro drivor]

I get recommended ex-Christian content that I check and I'm often baffled by how painfully retarded these takes are.

the best thing to do with content like that is to not even waste time reading it. it always comes from huge misunderstandings and when it doesn't come from that its usually a pissed off troon or something.

Everything good is going to be restored, and tbh I came to conclusion that all animals will go to heaven anyway.

I've seen it mentioned, probably in Revelation, that in the world to come there will be no nighttime. Is that just figurative/metaphorical language or will there literally be no nighttime? I don't dwell on this because following what God wants us to do right now is more important but if there's a concrete answer to that it would be beautiful.

Amos 5:21-24

Man some of the Old Testament prophets are underappreciated. Amos being one of them. Isaiah is also not given the attention it should be given, carrying all the references to Jesus and many more things which would be too long to name here. Proverbs is also a very helpful book.

I've had this thought for a while but avoiding sin becomes a whole lot easier once you realize it isn't engrained into human nature. From the beginning of the serpent it did not come from humans, humans only made the conscious choice to accept it once they were MANIPULATED to do so. People who struggle with extreme lust and view it as a natural instinct or feeling which needs to be suppressed often drop like flies regarding that. Once you realize that masturbatory lust, sodomy, etc. are unnatural and forced upon you from outside it becomes far less of an uphill battle. Who hasn't seen someone attractive and stared? It's the intention behind that staring that matters. Jesus said that if you looked at a woman with lustful intent you've committed adultery in your heart; if you do that you're succumbing to an unnatural lustful intent and even if you don't physically commit adultery you're on the path to doing so and as aforementioned, you'll drop like a fly despite your best efforts to ignoring that unnatural, externally introduced ""feeling"" (really someone MANIPULATING your brain chemistry) if you treat it as a given instinct. Just admiring someone's physical beauty isn't grounds for adultery in one's heart. Anyone who's fully recovered from porn addiction can (I hope) readily feel the difference between natural feelings and porn induced feelings (the lustful intents), and it's a shame when someone who doesn't know how bad things can get gets unnecessarily strict regarding sexual rules and pushes people into doing bad things in private. Many people have fallen into the porn pit this way; they weren't expressing pent up energy, what really happened is they were told all sexual thoughts were bad and thought "I can't seem to rid myself of even the most minor urges. I might as well go try the most taboo stuff then, because I'm going to hell anyway". Those most minor urges (Song of Solomon level stuff) are not of the same league as the taboo things (pornography). To phrase it more literally, looking at some woman and thinking "Wow her body, hair, & face look attractive/sexy" is not the same as "Wow look at that bubble butt - I wanna do things with the genitals behind its crack so bad - I think I'm gonna go masturbate later". Keep in mind though for some God forsaken reason a lot of gooner women take advantage of connotations applied to the more reasonable things, although it's usually easy to spot that because sexuality when decoupled from the opposite sex often spirals out of control quickly; why do you think homosexual drag "queens" came to exist? That decoupling of sexual relations is also probably a similar reason behind why women get noticeably excessive facial plastic surgery, huge lashes, unrealistic long nails etc. that no man would like. Same thing probably applies to roided out guys with huge beards although I'm not female so I can't comment on if women find that attractive or not. That's not to say presenting yourself with markers of femininity or masculinity is bad, but those two concepts go together like yin & yang and when separated from each other people end up devolving. God created humanity as man & woman, and it's nuts how many people can't seem to understand that man & woman are naturally dependent on each other for survival.

 

[Wessex]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Haven't had time to post, my new job had me working at Christmas and New Years, so I haven't had time to post much. I've seen a lot of interesting comments so I'd thought I'd respond to some of them.

---

Saints aren't graven images as they are not pagan idols but those that have been made holy by God.

I have never met a saint, I have only seen depictions of them after they have died. There are no living saints, and are only canonized after their deaths. The only things we have of them are records and man made images. Ergo, we have only seen them depicted as graven, or created, images.

To declare certain people to be revered or that they have been made holy, means that they are better than the rest of us. Which begs the question: how much more is a Saint worth, if God sacrificed his Son for the Sinner?

do you have anything add that i should tell him?

1. Recognize that there is no such thing as the "Perfect Earthly Church" nor the "Perfect Christian". Churches (the terrestrial kind) are made of imperfect men and women, seeking God and the Perfection He has. Every church gets something wrong, no one is perfect, as much as I am not perfect.
2. Find a good church, regardless of denomination. The church I went to was a Lutheran Church, but my pastor was hardly Lutheran. He was a man who loved the Lord and taught the Word. Find a Church that teaches the Word of God, and Loves Him greatly.

Romans 8:29–30

Logically and rationally, it is impossible to be predestined. If we were made by God, and God is Pure Good, then everything God does is Good. If God predestines us, and God is pure Good, then predestination is good. If we are predestined to sin, and predestination is good, then sinning is... good? We cannot be held accountable for, nor can we categorically commit any evil act for it was God's will that we commit evil, and since God is Good, and predestination is God's Will, then committing sins is Good. Therefore we should all ascend to heaven, for being predestined, we have never committed and evil act. Either that, or God randomly chooses who lives and who dies, which would also be Good, because God is supposed to be good. Or even worse, God is actually evil and is lying to us, and we are all doomed to death, unable to escape that God has selected as a Tyrant King would.

In a predestined world, the Bible is useless, Jesus Christ is useless, His sacrifice unnecessary, and evil is impossible. We are simply machines programed to dance to a code. It is the Christian version of "We are just chemical signals and impulses leading other impulses".

Frankly, I think it shows a lack of Faith that God could make everything and have control over everything, but could not also grant us the freedom of choice at the same time. Many, many times over the Bible emphasizes Faith in God, and Christ's sacrifice, and how we must choose God over the world. There would be no reason for God to even reveal his existence, let alone sacrifice His Son.

In all honesty, I don't think there's any hope of converting them, and they already have a very low opinion of Christianity so I don't think there's any changing their minds.

Remember, that Christ came not to bring peace, but a sword (Matthew 10:34-36). You will be persecuted and pitted against many people in life, including your family. But also remember that you can be a witness to them, and be a guiding light in their lives. Remember also, that the World will hate you because it hated Christ first (John 15:18-25).

But most of all, remember the Beatitudes, and remember to let your light shine (Matthew 5:1-20).

Spoiler: Matthew 5:14-16

“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

If your words carry no weight with them, let your actions speak for you. Continue to follow Christ's Example, and try to do what is right.

would God be more pleased with the Muslim who earnestly wants to follow God’s law (at least as far as he knows) over the Catholic who knows the fullness of the truth, and yet decides not to follow God’s law?

Both are wrong, and both fall short of Salvation. Assuming the Muslim has heard of the Living God, they both have rejected Him, and God will reject them.

If you are speaking on a non-binary, human sense, I'd much prefer the Muslim. The Muslim is seeking God actively. He may be wrong currently, but will eventually find God for, since seeking earnestly, he will change his mind and follow the Truth. The Catholic, purposely ignoring God, will be left to his own devices (Psalm 81:11-12) and be doomed for it.

 

[marlimar]

Logically and rationally, it is impossible to be predestined. If we were made by God, and God is Pure Good, then everything God does is Good. If God predestines us, and God is pure Good, then predestination is good. If we are predestined to sin, and predestination is good, then sinning is... good?

I would respond that it is good to be hated by God, in the sense that Essau was hated, he in turn despised his birthright and traded it to Israel for a bowl of soup and bread... but the Edomites (his descendants) killed the giants of Seir so that Jacob only had to deal with the Anakim. God is sovereign and free to do as he wants, if he wants repentance then there must first exist sin in a person to be receive salvation from, which is why his plan before time was to offer the Christ as a propitiatory sacrifice for all mankind who would seek forgiveness in his name. My opinion is that the number of people in heaven was decided before time, which is why we are waiting for the "fullness of the Gentiles" (Romans 11:25-26) to occur before Christ's return to this Earth.

I would pose a hypothetical (only God knows who is in heaven outside of what is told to us directly in scripture): is Essau in heaven or hell?

 

[Wessex]

I would respond that it is good to be hated by God, in the sense that Essau was hated,

I agree. God's hatred of us would be good because He is Good, and His Will is good. The issue is that God tells us not to sin, for it is evil. But if we are predestined and cannot help but sin, then God has a double standard by telling us not to sin and then forcing us too. He also cannot be pure good, because only evil can commit evil. Sin is resultant of disobeying God and going against His Will, so either we are free and can choose to sin, or we are forced to sin and hated for no reason at all.

The word hate in the Bible does not always mean pure anger and wishing death on someone. Hate is often used as "remove from life" or "Distance oneself" like in Luke 14:26. In this case, how can we love one another and hate them at the same time? The specific use case of "God Hated Esau" may mean that God distanced Himself from Esau, and favored Jacob instead.

I have read other interpretations of God Hating Esau and Loving Jacob is meant for prophetic purposes, meaning He loved Israel and hated Edom, as per Malachi 1:1-5.

I would pose a hypothetical (only God knows who is in heaven outside of what is told to us directly in scripture): is Essau in heaven or hell?

It would depend on Judgement Day. Esau was born and died before Christ, and thus will be raised and Judged (Revelation 20:11-15). Esau will judged like the rest of us will, and perhaps he will repent and recognize Christ as Savior. The Bible says we will all be judged for what we did, and consequently, we will all fail. But because Christ died for us, He has forgiven our trespasses, and repaid our debts, so we only need to accept his sacrifice to be saved.

 

[Starscream's Loyalty]

Is it bad of me to not have reactions to any deaths I see on media? (I.e Nigerian Christians dying, Iranians dying) I mean, I grow tired of strangers telling others to care about the next big thing (tm) not so much with the 2 I named, but anyone in a first world country. Like I don't care that that Renee chick was killed when there's people dying everyday and being martyred for the faith in 3rd world countries. It sounds cold of me, but I can't bring myself to care for any strangers these days, except give a small prayer for their souls.

 

[marlimar]

In this case, how can we love one another and hate them at the same time? The specific use case of "God Hated Esau" may mean that God distanced Himself from Esau, and favored Jacob instead.

Jesus also said that if we want to be his disciple we must hate our mother and father (Luke 14:26) which is a good example of that use of love and hate being like a totem pole, where everything is underneath our love for God and his laws. I would suggest that we can't know how to love his laws until we see the consequences of not following them has on our lives.

The issue is that God tells us not to sin, for it is evil. But if we are predestined and cannot help but sin, then God has a double standard by telling us not to sin and then forcing us too.

I think this is why we hardly ever (I have never had one delivered in-person) hear sermons about predestination, as it is too frightening to those who are new to the faith (milk Christians). Christ promised to deliver to us all truth through his helper (John 16:13), which is why we have the 66 books of the Protestant bible, IMO; where the literature that was available to the writers of the New Testament were from the second temple period (Book of Enoch, Maccabees, etc.) was excluded because the Holy Spirit did not decide they were necessary to convey the message of salvation through Jesus.

It would depend on Judgement Day.

This is why I find predestination comforting, where I have the faith that I will never see the Great White Throne of Judgement, rather be greeted with a "Well done my faithful servant"... if I were God, I'm the first person I would send to Hell for all the terrible things I've done, but God's grace isn't fathomable to me.

Is it bad of me to not have reactions to any deaths I see on media? (I.e Nigerian Christians dying, Iranians dying) I mean, I grow tired of strangers telling others to care about the next big thing (tm) not so much with the 2 I named, but anyone in a first world country. Like I don't care that that Renee chick was killed when there's people dying everyday and being martyred for the faith in 3rd world countries. It sounds cold of me, but I can't bring myself to care for any strangers these days, except give a small prayer for their souls.

My mom has been asking for prayers for the Christians in China for many decades and it would seem to only get worse for them... rest assured that prayer matters, but its impact is seldom seen... I pray not to think that I can supersede his sovereign will, but to make a petition for my concerns to be heard in the same sense of "ask and it shall be given" (Matthew 7:7-8 .

avoiding sin becomes a whole lot easier once you realize it isn't engrained into human nature. From the beginning of the serpent it did not come from humans, humans only made the conscious choice to accept it once they were MANIPULATED to do so.

The second temple period has books like The Watchers, where the fallen angels corrupted men's minds and hearts to only evil, which is presented in canon scripture in Genesis 6:5-6; "Every intent of their heart was only evil continually". I don't discount that other gods (Ba'al, Molech, etc.) were present for worship in the bible, nor that Legion inhabited the man in Gadarenes, but I think the larger church discounts these as forces that only existed in the past, when my view is they are still present and working against God's plan.

 

[BIG SHOT Autos]

This was one of the most profound truths that guided me to God. I realized I was only rebelling against or denying the Lord for selfish reasons, and only to indulge pointless pursuits and addictions. I've lost nothing and gained everything by simply accepting His authority and morality.

This mindset also helped me stay in the Faith. That, and, when looking back, how better my life mentally and spiritually is.

What baffles me is how surprisingly hard it is to talk about these things to people. I mean, I sort of get it, refer to my comment about hobbies, people on both sides sometimes tend to see the whole topic of "wants" as something inherently black and white. But still. What specifically makes it hard is that people seem to be fully aware that while there's stuff that is harmless and joy on itself is good, there are also things or patterns that clearly are a trap in disguise. They know something is bad for them. Or everyone else. So you should expect them to be sensible of their "wants", knowing how to approach every desire, right? Right...? Instead we end up with people performing mental gymnastics to excuse all sorts of depravity. A drug addict will still consider you this evil judgmental monster for saying they need to quit, all while dying from a completely self-inflicted problem that just "feels good" in the moment.

 

[Squanto Airi]

To declare certain people to be revered or that they have been made holy, means that they are better than the rest of us.

It's less "better than the rest of us" and more "through their prayers to God miracles have happened".

What specifically makes it hard is that people seem to be fully aware that while there's stuff that is harmless and joy on itself is good, there are also things or patterns that clearly are a trap in disguise.

 

[24nagging]

I have never met a saint, I have only seen depictions of them after they have died

indeed, that's what sainthood (achieving the beatific vision, aka going to Heaven) is. By definition, a Saint is a person who has bodily died but lives forever with God. It is the Church that has the power to confirm if a person is in Heaven, but that person could be in Heaven well before the Church says so.

Plus, we have pictures of people who have been canonized, we have records of Saints going back to the earliest days of the Church, like St. Stephen, we have historical records of many many Saints. We go on to make Icons, statues, or images of Saints, but this are not "carved images" (when the Bible uses that term to refer to idols, not carved images in the generic, since then we could not have any images of anything, which is not something that the Israel did) but objects of adoration (something we've went over many times already)

By definition we have not achieved perfection, nor can we achieve it, in this life, so it's not that Saint is an Angel in levels of perfection, it is rather that the Saint has lived a life that has lead him to Heaven, which means that he has lived a life worthy of imitation and admiration.