Female Portrayals in Video Games

Same here. I have a preference for games with customizeable characters, be it Soul Calibur IV in making your own fighter who goes out to get either/both Soul Edge and Soul Calibur, or the Elder Scrolls where I can make a male Nerevarine who or a female Dovahkiin. Granted, I do feel one could bring a problem in the custom character thing in that the game might play some sort of favored gender or the sequel implies what the previous player character's sex is. Even then, with talk of this, I kinda feel like playing a female character in Mount & Blade when I get back to playing that game(the game does state advantages in playing a female, especially in terms of renown. *A female peasant beating a king at a tourney match can be more memorable than a male knight beating a king).

Well that's one thing that is so good about a lot of D&D Based/Inspired games. Often, they are very obscure about what happened to the last games hero. Take Neverwinter Nights. The hero from Vanilla has a falling out with Lord Nasher and vanishes to some unkown locale in Faerun, the expansion packs PC (It always pisses me off that you are, hypothetically, the same character from Shadows to Hordes, but not Vanilla. I play the same char in all three and my old companions don't recognize me in Hordes, but fucking Deekin does. (Oh... I can't stay mad at Deekin. I like having a fucking Kobold follow me around.)) becomes a plane wanderer. Take Elder Scrolls. Master of making the historic characters footnotes. Take Dragon Age. The Warden vanishes and never has his/er gender/race/class solidly defined.

KOTOR breaks it by canonically defining Revan as male, but they balance it out by making The Exile female, and the exile is pretty badass herself. She feeds on life-force and doesn't afraid of anything. Fuk u, Council. You don't understand me! You weren't there!

P.S Mount and Blade is spectacular.
 
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Males are the primary consumer of video games and as a result exotic and powerful examples of masculinity are usually the protagonist. Not many teen boys are going to speak up and suggest a game where you're a a girl. In real life, we have female service people in foreign countries, but you won't see a Call of Duty game with actual female gunmen for just that reason.

There are games being produced now with very strong female characters. Whenever the topic comes up I think of the helicopter pilot from the Deus Ex sequel, someone who never got fucked around and even in the scene where you have the option to save her, she advocates letting her die up until you succeed. Games with female protagonists like Portal 2 or Mirror's Edge often feature mostly silent characters from a first person perspective so if you're in a room with 3 people you aren't staring at a girl's ass the entire time. It's an awkward thing. I've heard women say that men who play female characters (when they have the option of playing a non-female character, contrasting a World of Warcraft character to League of Legend's Ahri whom has a static gender) are creepy.

I didn't really browse through this thread and you're free to make any conjecture you'd like about why things might be like this, but that's the fact. Men don't like playing women in video games. It's demeaning and emasculating to them.
 
Males are the primary consumer of video games and as a result exotic and powerful examples of masculinity are usually the protagonist. Not many teen boys are going to speak up and suggest a game where you're a a girl. In real life, we have female service people in foreign countries, but you won't see a Call of Duty game with actual female gunmen for just that reason.

There are games being produced now with very strong female characters. Whenever the topic comes up I think of the helicopter pilot from the Deus Ex sequel, someone who never got fucked around and even in the scene where you have the option to save her, she advocates letting her die up until you succeed. Games with female protagonists like Portal 2 or Mirror's Edge often feature mostly silent characters from a first person perspective so if you're in a room with 3 people you aren't staring at a girl's ass the entire time. It's an awkward thing. I've heard women say that men who play female characters (when they have the option of playing a non-female character, contrasting a World of Warcraft character to League of Legend's Ahri whom has a static gender) are creepy.

I didn't really browse through this thread and you're free to make any conjecture you'd like about why things might be like this, but that's the fact. Men don't like playing women in video games. It's demeaning and emasculating to them.

Yyyyyyeah... gonna have to disagree with you there.

First, while males are the primary consumer of vidya, females are actually 48% of all gamers so there really isn't that much of a difference between genders than one might expect. Second, generalizing that the majority of gamers is "teen boys" is incorrect, as 71% of all gamers are over the age of 18. Third, I dunno about the latest Call of Duty since I don't play those games. But I'll ask my gamer friend out in Michigan next time she is online - I'm pretty sure at least in multiplayer they have female characters you can play as now.

While true, there is an increasing number of video games with female leads compared to years past, but then again, that isn't saying all that much, especially when you take into account that nearly half of all gamers are female now and it would be a stretch to say that even, I dunno, 10 percent of all games have female lead characters.

As for looking at a female character, I think that is one of the main problem with a lot of female characters in gaming, in that most female characters are built to be sexual first, and then an actual fleshed out character second, hence why it is awkward to play most of these female characters in a group- not because they're female in and of themselves, but because it's a very awkward depiction of how the game portrays a female character.

Now, this isn't to say that female characters shouldn't be allowed to be attractive, but at the same time, it would be interesting to see some extra diversity in female characters, both in characters and as well as in design. Trust me, you can still have a plenty feminine character without having to accentuate their bust and butt.

Oh, and I would appreciate it if you wouldn't generalize all men under opinion. Speaking as a white heterosexual male, whenever the game gives me the option to play a female character (Saint's Row, XCOM, Dark Souls, Soul Calibur, GTA Online, Dragon Age, Fallout, Mass Effect, Skyrim) I always play a female character. Not because I enjoy looking at a fake character's ass as you implied, but because I really don't have any hang-ups with what gender my character is. If anything, I find it refreshing to have a female character leading the Saints in demolishing rival gangs, or fighting off demon hordes, or whatever. And frankly, coming from a person whose Xbox friend's list is actually close to half and half male to female ratio, I don't think I've ever once had anyone ask me why I play a female character or that they thought it was creepy.
 
Men don't like playing women in video games. It's demeaning and emasculating to them.
Incorrect. My cousin used to love playing as women (I say 'used to' because he stopped gaming pretty early on), and one of the most popular Borderlands 2 characters to play as is female.

Hell, just look at Bayonetta and Lollipop Chainsaw. Men don't like these games just because they find the main characters attractive, but mostly for the fact that both are fun and crazy as hell. That's why I enjoy them too; as a woman, I really don't care that much about gender equality in video games. As long as the game itself is entertaining, that's good enough for me.

When it comes to games that allow you to choose your gender, then yes, I will usually play as a female because I find it more relatable. But more often than not, I also do another playthrough as a male.
 
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P.S Mount and Blade is spectacular.
Indeed Mount and Blade is spectacular. I don't play much as a female in that game (Not without using cheats) but would it be wrong for me to say that playing as a woman can in some way be positive? I say that because really, you play as a woman in a male-dominant society and through certain choices, you can become queen or even empress of Calradia or just be an annoyance to the kings, just repeatedly beating them on the battlefield. I can imagine a Swadian knight laughing at the fact a peasant woman from another land beaten King Harlaus with a simple staff.
 
I'm a guy and I play as female characters whenever the option is given to me. I guess I just like having strong female protagonists to compensate for their lack of prominence in media.
 
This study is garbage because it considers shit like fruit ninja to be a game. My fucking 40 year old aunt plays Angry Birds but you don't see her cosplaying as genderbent Link in E3.

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It's not a joke. Your entire thesis is based on female characters in video games. If you're considering the number of females whom play video games to be the counter-argument against my "men don't want to play as women" response, then you have to take into consideration only the % of the population playing games with a fucking story. Candy Crush doesn't have a god damn story.

And "men don't want to play as women" only applies to the large number of "gamers" who do shoot 'em up style games that often enjoy coop with IRL friends or people they know over systems like Xbox. Yes, it's fun being the skinny titty lady that runs around with a minigun in fallout and the 2h in skyrim. Yes, it's more fun to stare at a woman's ass in an MMORPG when you play it 6 hours a day. No, I wouldn't tell my friends in real life this.

And you might think "but if the protagonist is a STRONG female then it shouldn't matter!" -- try sitting on the sofa next to your best friend when your character on screen is about to be raped. That shit's awkward no matter what fucking glitter sprinkles you throw on it.
 
And you might think "but if the protagonist is a STRONG female then it shouldn't matter!" -- try sitting on the sofa next to your best friend when your character on screen is about to be raped. That shit's awkward no matter what fucking glitter sprinkles you throw on it.

Rape as a plot point for a female character is just hack writing. Female protagonists can been done well without it, to the point that I wouldn't care if people knew I played a girl. Femshep 4 Lyfe, son!
 
And "men don't want to play as women" only applies to the large number of "gamers" who do shoot 'em up style games that often enjoy coop with IRL friends or people they know over systems like Xbox.

"Shoot em ups"? I think you might mean first person shooters. Shmups are usually games like Gradius where your character is a space ship or some kind of aircraft. Shmups with humanoid characters haven't been popular since the 90's.

Anyway, generally speaking it's only the puzzle games that have no story. Angry Birds and other casual games that some people (for whatever subjective reason) have decided are not actual games do have stories.
 
This study is garbage because it considers shit like fruit ninja to be a game. My fucking 40 year old aunt plays Angry Birds but you don't see her cosplaying as genderbent Link in E3.

First of all Null, calm down. I'm not interested in having a conversation about gaming with someone who can't take a counterargument without calling things they don't like as "shit" or "garbage." I'm not a big "casual" gamer myself, but a game is a game- there is no need for lashing out on genres of games you don't like.

Also I don't understand the cosplaying reference. I play about 30-40 different games in a year (Strategy, FPS, Third-person shooter, RPGs, Fighting, Puzzle, etc.) but I've never cosplayed before once in my life. Does that mean I'm not a gamer?

It's not a joke. Your entire thesis is based on female characters in video games. If you're considering the number of females whom play video games to be the counter-argument against my "men don't want to play as women" response, then you have to take into consideration only the % of the population playing games with a fucking story. Candy Crush doesn't have a god damn story.

And "men don't want to play as women" only applies to the large number of "gamers" who do shoot 'em up style games that often enjoy coop with IRL friends or people they know over systems like Xbox. Yes, it's fun being the skinny titty lady that runs around with a minigun in fallout and the 2h in skyrim. Yes, it's more fun to stare at a woman's ass in an MMORPG when you play it 6 hours a day. No, I wouldn't tell my friends in real life this.

And you might think "but if the protagonist is a STRONG female then it shouldn't matter!" -- try sitting on the sofa next to your best friend when your character on screen is about to be raped. That shit's awkward no matter what fucking glitter sprinkles you throw on it.

The percentage point was a counterargument of you saying "Males are the primary consumer of video games..." and that's pretty much it.

(Also, I'm not even going to touch on the "a game can only be a game if it has a story" argument else I'll be typing all night.)

Second, you seem to be generalizing quite a lot. Do you have anything to back up your claims that women only play casual games, or is this just you using first-hand experiences? Because if that's the case, then I best tell the women I know who play things like Call of Duty, Skyrim, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Grand Theft Auto that either they're not in fact women, or they have to go back and play Barbie's Horse Adventure or something because they're women and they shouldn't like anything with a plot. Is that what I'm supposed to be feeling?

Next- I'm genuinely confused by your statement in the second paragrpah Are you implying that males only like playing female characters either when they're alone? Again, I have to disagree. I play as a female character with my friends when I play on Saint's Row or when I'm playing with other people in GTA Online. I'd like to play as Maya in Borderlands 2 (but we usually have a Siren class in the teams I play with, so I usually play as Krieg). In Tekken, I might play as Alisa or Christie online. In Blazblue, I love playing as Noel and Litchi. In Sanctum 2, I always play as either Summer or Tsygan. All of these characters I play as online, both with friends and strangers. And I play them not because I secretly think I'm a woman inside or whatever- it's because I like playing as those characters. My friends know this, hell even my parents fucking know this and no one gives a shit about it because to them.

As for you last paragraph, I'm assuming either you're talking about "that one scene" in the 2013 Tomb Raider, or perhaps one of David Cage's "masterpieces." And yeah, you should feel awkward because both are terrible executions in plot and narrative. As it is, I wasn't even thinking "but if the protagonist is a STRONG female then it shouldn't matter!" and I'm not exactly sure where that even came from.
 
You've systematically missed the core of every point I've made in a way that makes me think you're trolling and/or intentionally skewing what I've said.
  • I'm using cosplaying as an example of extreme dedication to games. Rhetorically, I state my aunt does not cosplay despite the number of hours she sinks into simple games.
  • Your percentage point of 41% is inaccurate because it includes the casual games market that feature titles which do not have a story or characters and whose players likely don't care about protagonists in AAA titles.
  • Because Candy Crush is a simple game with no story or title, it's players do not have to worry about a misrepresentation of gender roles in their market. I'm not implying it's not a fucking game.
  • Because a larger number of women in the 41% play casual games exclusively, that figure is a misrepresentation of what a market analytics would suggest to game developers.
  • Because more men play video games, games are geared towards men.
  • Because games are geared towards men, they feature things that appeal to men.
Your personal preference in what's acceptable doesn't affect popular opinion. I think given the option in the company of others, most guys would choose to play a male character that does hypermasculine things. Nobody is going to take a few minutes to apply makeup on a wood elf in Skyrim when there's two guys sitting next to each other Xbox.

And yes, I was referring to Tomb Raider. I guess your personal opinion of that game also trumps the point being made.
 
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I predict that the phrase "male power fantasy" will be used very soon.

Seriously though, Null is doing a fine job at articulating his point and i would like to add only one thing and that is to say that the so called study mentioned a few posts back is one of the most intellectually dishonest pieces of work i have seen in a long time, it's like an EA... well anything.
 
I predict that the phrase "male power fantasy" will be used very soon.

Seriously though, Null is doing a fine job at articulating his point and i would like to add only one thing and that is to say that the so called study mentioned a few posts back is one of the most intellectually dishonest pieces of work i have seen in a long time, it's like an EA... well anything.

You'll call a study done by the ESA "intellectually dishonest" without any evidence, and without even attempting to point out any flaws in the study's methodology, but then you'll speak derisively of the idea that men are portrayed in video games in such a way that the males playing them can live vicariously through them (as opposed to the popular claim that they're supposed to be eye candy for the girls) despite supposedly agreeing with Null that non-casual games are marketed predominantly to men?


At any rate, if we're going to go all "Gatekeeper" on gamers just because of the type of games they play, I'm going to have to say that the high school weens and college frat boys who only play Madden and CoD don't count either. Sports games, afterall, don't have stories, and your average CoD clone has a story in the same way tofu has flavor: sure, it's there, but you have to pay attention to notice its presence.

I feel like dedicated gamers, the ones who make up the "gamer culture", are like movie buffs. The kind of people who not only like games, but are interested their history. The kind of people who know about Atari burying a bunch of ET cartridges after the game's failure, and actually care that the treasure trove of gaming history has been uncovered.

I'll be honest, I don't think this distinction of who is a "gamer" and who isn't should really have anything to do with who game developers should or shouldn't market to. It'd be like saying that film producers should market their movies to whatever demographic dominates the film buff community instead of looking at their whole consumer base.

And I think I've already made the case earlier in this thread (with the Animal Crossing article) that it's possible to get the attention of the female demographic even with AAA games and boost the sales of dedicated game consoles among women. All the gaming industry needs to do is try.
 
You've systematically missed the core of every point I've made in a way that makes me think you're trolling and/or intentionally skewing what I've said.
  • I'm using cosplaying as an example of extreme dedication to games. Rhetorically, I state my aunt does not cosplay despite the number of hours she sinks into simple games.
  • Your percentage point of 41% is inaccurate because it includes the casual games market that feature titles which do not have a story or characters and whose players likely don't care about protagonists in AAA titles.
  • Because Candy Crush is a simple game with no story or title, it's players do not have to worry about a misrepresentation of gender roles in their market. I'm not implying it's not a fucking game.
  • Because a larger number of women in the 41% play casual games exclusively, that figure is a misrepresentation of what a market analytics would suggest to game developers.
  • Because more men play video games, games are geared towards men.
  • Because games are geared towards men, they feature things that appeal to men.
Your personal preference in what's acceptable doesn't affect popular opinion. I think given the option in the company of others, most guys would choose to play a male character that does hypermasculine things. Nobody is going to take a few minutes to apply makeup on a wood elf in Skyrim when there's two guys sitting next to each other Xbox.

And yes, I was referring to Tomb Raider. I guess your personal opinion of that game also trumps the point being made.

I assure you I'm not trolling you Null - I'm just having a difficult time understanding your argument. This is mostly because most of your points you are using are based off of your own opinion and you're taking them as facts and believing that your opinion is the same of all gamers. All I'm doing is bringing up numbers from an actual survey and you're dismissing them because they are talking about a demographic you are not a part of (and obviously you are very uncomfortable talking about).

You seem to be implying that because a casual game might not have a storyline, then people who do not play any other type of game other than Angry Birds or Candy Crush Saga do not count in the gamer whole, or are at least not worth considering in the discussion. This way of thinking can be very restricting to both sides. What if one of these simpler games could be a gateway for people to find and enjoy more involved, narrative-driven games? Not all gamers start immediately in the gamer trenches, completely enamored by skill trees and crafting mechanics. Some learn tangentially from other games, growing from one genre to another.

Your view however seems to be one of "games have been made for a male demographic, therefore gamers need to conform to games made for a male market." I'm not meaning to imply that games need to be some sort of sterile, politically correct bullshit. There will always be male-centric games, and no one should be so naive to think that should go away. Games after all are a form of entertainment and escapism. That said, shouldn't other players, females in particular to this conversation, be allowed the same opportunity? Yes, there are more stronger female roles like Samus (pre-Other M), Faith, and Chell than there ever have been before in video games - but there certainly can be more.

Looking over your arguments again, I think the main core of your argument seems to stem from this idea that if we allow more appeal for female games, then that means you yourself and the games you like have to change as well. I'm not meaning to sound like "oh, well you should enjoy putting makeup on a wood elf, goddammit!" but rather it couldn't hurt to have more of a selection for those who do. Further, we have a rapidly growing demographic wanting to play more of the type of games we like. I'm not saying we have to make concessions and bend over backwards for them - I'm just saying the "no girls allowed" attitude is just kinda juvenile.

I predict that the phrase "male power fantasy" will be used very soon.

Seriously though, Null is doing a fine job at articulating his point and i would like to add only one thing and that is to say that the so called study mentioned a few posts back is one of the most intellectually dishonest pieces of work i have seen in a long time, it's like an EA... well anything.

Well, hopefully it won't be from me. :D

No, I realize what I sound like, but I'm much more atuned to wanting everyone a chance to enjoy what I've loved since I was five. I'm more for "equal gaming for everyone" rather than "this is a bad thing, and you feel bad because I said so."

Anyway, I would be interested if you have a different source that has a decent counterargument.
 
You'll call a study done by the ESA "intellectually dishonest" without any evidence, and without even attempting to point out any flaws in the study's methodology, but then you'll speak derisively of the idea that men are portrayed in video games in such a way that the males playing them can live vicariously through them (as opposed to the popular claim that they're supposed to be eye candy for the girls) despite supposedly agreeing with Null that non-casual games are marketed predominantly to men?

Yeah, I'm going to spoiler this response because of how large it is.

At any rate, if we're going to go all "Gatekeeper" on gamers just because of the type of games they play, I'm going to have to say that the high school weens and college frat boys who only play Madden and CoD don't count either. Sports games, afterall, don't have stories, and your average CoD clone has a story in the same way tofu has flavor: sure, it's there, but you have to pay attention to notice its presence.

I feel like dedicated gamers, the ones who make up the "gamer culture", are like movie buffs. The kind of people who not only like games, but are interested their history. The kind of people who know about Atari burying a bunch of ET cartridges after the game's failure, and actually care that the treasure trove of gaming history has been uncovered.

I'll be honest, I don't think this distinction of who is a "gamer" and who isn't should really have anything to do with who game developers should or shouldn't market to. It'd be like saying that film producers should market their movies to whatever demographic dominates the film buff community instead of looking at their whole consumer base.

And I think I've already made the case earlier in this thread (with the Animal Crossing article) that it's possible to get the attention of the female demographic even with AAA games and boost the sales of dedicated game consoles among women. All the gaming industry needs to do is try.[/spoiler]

Ok, I've been playing games for a long time, so I'm going to throw in my two cents on the matter. So yeah, I'm going to spoiler this response because of how large it is.

The only issue I see with the study is that it doesn't differentiate age and gender by categories. Really, the two categories necessary are already included elsewhere in the study: casual/social media games and core games. What I mean by core games are the type that are played on a dedicated console or a PC that needs higher specifications than being able to run Flash or HTML5 and Facebook. The only exception to the console rule might be light party or puzzle games on the Wii or XBLA or the PSN (I tend to use Mario Party as the gold bar: if it's lighter than Mario Party then it's a casual game in my eyes). Before I say anything else, the significance of these has nothing to do with the validity of casual games as an entertainment medium. 40-somethings who can't get enough Candy Crush are no less valid than someone dumping hours into Dota 2 or eagerly awaiting Watch Dogs. There is a difference, however, in how they relate to the treatment of women in video games. To me, the "dudebro demographic" is probably a wildcard so I'll leave it out for the sake of argument.

While puzzle games tend to have no plot as they really don't need them, even the games that you do describe as having plot, like Angry Birds, are mostly excuse plots to justify the game's premise. The pigs stole the birds' picnic baskets, so they need to get them back by catapulting at their forts. Basic enough, the story is non-intrusive and contributes to a pick-up-and-play style of gameplay. The hallmark of most successful traditional casual games are that they are particularly pick-up-and-play, and having a deep narrative with engaging characters and winding plot points would unfortunately serve to diminish the pick-up-and-play experience. Sure, it'd draw people in and such and there's no reason that telling a good story would ever be bad, but it takes away from the portability of it.

The engaging story and engaging characters would serve to make a player want to sit down and play it for longer even if the gameplay isn't particularly complex, just to see what happens next. However, it would alienate a lot of the newfound audience who is too busy to make that committment or otherwise would get the story in bite-size amounts and lose meaning along the way. It's much like people I know who find a good book: if they really like it, they won't put it down. On the other hand, if they put it down they won't find as much meaning in it as someone who sat down and read it in a few shots. Animal Crossing is definitely a different beast, but the story is more or less what you make of it rather than a direct narrative, and you can do whatever you want short of whacking Tom Nook to get out of debt. And it's definitely a strong case because the empowerment comes from what you make of yourself. Plus it's addictive as hell...

Now, that's not a bad thing at all. The pick-up-and-play style and the simplicity of the games have drawn in an older crowd and a more diverse crowd gender-wise. However, there has not been much crossover between folks introduced to casual games and the core gaming market. The Wii is a good experiment in this regard. When it first showed up on the market, a lot of folks, old and young, female and male, bought into the system and were interested in the variation in gameplay that could revolutionize the industry. However, there really was no gateway from folks introduced to casual games and what would be considered core games. With the exception of Nintendo's first-party titles, the core games on the system really didn't do that well. No More Heroes did fairly well in the U.S. and Europe, but No More Heroes 2 tanked sales-wise. Madworld tanked saleswise. Okami, despite being a really awesome game, didn't get the sales to back up the hype. Hell, take a look at the Wii's bestselling games list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

The point that I'm trying to make is that unfortunately, the strong female demographic being introduced to casual games isn't likely going to make the jump to core gaming anytime soon. I'm sure that it's happening in some respects, and I know that I like sitting down and playing games on my phone from time to time, but still. I think the numbers aren't painting the whole picture. And again, this is nothing ill-willed against casual gamers at all. This is just for the sake of argument for where the issue of female representation in games is. Before the accessibility of Facebook and the iPhone in '07 allowed for these games to start blooming, the ESA Essential Facts for 2006 showed that then, the gender ratio was 62/38 male to female. As the ratio has decreased to 52/48 this year, the bracket of women over 50 has skyrocketed by 32% over the last year. There has to be a correlation there considering how the casual games market has skyrocketed. Here's the link: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2006.pdf

As much as I really, really, really wish you could prove me wrong on this (no, I'm dead serious on this, I've grown up with games on the mindset that it was a men's club and I'd love to be proven wrong), I still get the impression that there are quite a few less women out there playing core games in comparison to men. I know I'm not the only one with this sentiment though. Whether this is actually right or not, and I hope it's not, probably influences developers. Perhaps it's a common knowledge argument where the common knowledge isn't actually right. And the main issue with treatment of women in video games tends to come from ones with at least attempts at bigger stories or that are at least less lighthearted than the usual casual games.

I've really noticed though, that with the exception of armor sometimes being skimpier, the best instances of female inclusion tend to come from when there was an option to have a female character or a male character. That way, you catch men who only identify with male characters, females who best identify with other female characters, and those who like playing as both. Personally, I still think Mass Effect has the best way of handling the male and female option, as it allows you to have the complex player character who isn't voiceless but allows you to keep the player character customization that makes everyone happy. That said, Jennifer Hale does a much better job voice acting FemShep than the guy who does MaleShep. Another great example of someone everyone identifies with is Samus pre-Other M. But I already said what I had to say about that earlier. Seriously though, I firmly believe that the Mass Effect path would be the best way of bridging that gap between female players and male players in terms of the identifying with characters argument that gets thrown around a lot. It would involve a bit bigger budget for both voice actors at worst, and it allows developers to not have to compromise. The female character still has to fill the same shoes as the male character so their character isn't diminished in any way, and onyone who wants to play as a male character isn't going to feel shortchanged, as stupid as that sounds. Options are never a bad thing, unless you have to do both options to get a true ending or something which would defeat the purpose...

That said, the concept of gamer culture as it is now for the most part is fairly dumb. Just throwing that out there.
 
I'm going to follow up that well thought out post by simply saying that I don't want the considerations of tween girls playing Farmville to factor in to the next Fallout game. Fuck that. Fuck them.

Not the kind of person to enjoy reading huge volumes of shit for no productive reason so I'll leave it at that.
 
Well, I for one enjoyed reading that @Liquid Squirtle. I appreciate the effort you put into it.

I will concede that the gaming still feels like a "men's club," but I do want to believe that things are changing and becoming more accessible to people who didn't grow up in the culture or those who are just finding out about gaming through casual games. That isn't to say I'm really looking forward to the problems of the casual market homogenizing with the more "core market" (seriously want to throttle whoever decided microtransactions would be great in an already full-priced game), nor do I believe that the wide majority of people who play mostly social/ casual games will become part of the "core market," but I do believe that those who do want to try more involving games can actually have a chance to try them out without being shot down on sight. Again, this isn't saying the "core" market should bend over backwards and forget the original fans (looking at you, circa-2008 Nintendo...never forget...), but rather be more inviting to other demographics.

I agree with you and your Mass Effect point. One of the things that always drives me up a wall about these kind of discussions is how it always feels like when a person talks about putting a female character in a game, the act of that itself, should make the game incredible and amazing, and making the whole thing seem blown out way out of proportion to the point of ridiculousness. Mass Effect got it right by having both a male and female character, but not playing up either character's gender (although giving due credit to Jennifer Hale who really did own Commander Shepard's voice.). I think it is a good starting point to have dual gender choices, but all the same, I still think we should be at this point where we should be comfortable having a female-centric role throughout a game. Nothing stupidly hyped up, ("Oh wow, look at that, it's a woman!" or "Yes! We have a woman in out game! Let's make a documentary about this amazing thing we have achieved!") but an actual, strong, developed character, not the star attraction at the zoo.

Oh, and totally agreed on "gamer culture."

Thanks again for the good read.
 
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