Christian theology thread for Christians - Deus homo factus est naturam erante, mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

[Twix Eatr]

Perhaps, but it's hard to imagine so many matching details to certain mythologies they're unfamiliar with. For example, most people think an angel is a humanoid entity with wings, playing a harp. The actual descriptions aren't really represented in media and people don't recognize them as such in the moment. Another example would be something like Egyptian mythology where people are unaware of Anubis and describe seeing a dog-headed man preparing decedents for something. Quite interesting.

Regardless, the ideas came from somewhere initially. Moses' visions and whatnot. Perhaps that's what you meant by "baked into the human psyche?" I find that trickster entities are extremely common in the DMT space, often represented by jesters. It'd seem many archetypes are naturally existing within our consciousness, whatever that is. It's also interesting to me how many folks have seen Christ in the space. Not to mention 5-MeO-DMT, The God Molecule, often allows the experiencer to interface with God himself (though usually they refer to it as Source).

More than half of those who identified as atheist before the experience no longer identified as atheist afterwards. The experiences were rated as among the most meaningful, spiritual, and psychologically insightful lifetime experiences, with persisting positive changes in life satisfaction, purpose, and meaning attributed to the experiences.

Interesting stuff. I've never felt any calling to religion, but never ruled out a creator. DMT changed the way I think about our reality. I find simulation theory to be an interesting blend of science and theology. But I don't want to derail the thread too much.

What is a Unitarian Universalist Church? I saw one, and wasn't sure what that meant. It has a rainbow LGBT flag if that helps pin down what kind of church they are

Interesting. I've been trying to show my peers how our public schools are indoctrination centers with sexual groomers at the helm. I've found lots of disturbing material from one of the groups that provides part of the groomer "sex ed" curriculum. It's essentially a playbook for queer theory indoctrination. Anyway, their director is part of the Unitarian Universalist Church, where I found this article. Maybe I'd give them the benefit of the doubt if their members weren't sexual groomers, but it just seems like pedo apologia.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

Better stick to sober though and not get into the drugs too much. Getting high may feel good and may 'ease' some dormant psychological pressure, but true faith is better with a most sober mind.
Never want to be tripping balls and seeing shit, thinking it's rapture day and leviathan is going to eat you.

 

[Twix Eatr]

I rarely do drugs these days and haven't drank in well over a year. DMT isn't addictive and the body has no tolerance to it (one of the many unique things about it). It's also endogenously produced, though we're not sure why at the moment. Just to be clear, it's not really a "get high and feel good" type of drug, nor one to turn to for some kind of escape. It leaves you with way more questions than answers.

On "breakthrough" doses, it's not really tripping balls and seeing shit. You're in a different place entirely, but experiencing it with the same clear-headedness and qualia of everyday life. You're often interfacing with hyperintelligent entities that have complete control over the experience. And sometimes the entities are not very friendly, haha.

But valid points and they're noted. Definitely not trying to promote drugs in here, just want to describe how different DMT is from anything else.

leviathan

I went and found someone's old report I'd read years ago which reminded me of that:

My most recent experience had a somewhat similar feel.

I realized I was in a place with maybe waves of water all around and there was this creature like some sort of anime serpent that was swimming and floating through the air and water. This was his world and he was in charge. I felt completely alone, helpless and hopeless. I was in some world that to me, felt like it could be hell and this creature was the devil. I don’t actually believe in hell or the devil though.

It didn’t seem more real than this reality, but it did seem like a very real other reality. Like a nightmare that is actually true and exists.

I was so relieved when it was over.

Well, while it was happening, I was calm enough to ask myself why it was happening but I couldn’t find an answer. Even though I described it as a hell, nothing was hurting me. It was just that feeling of being alone and hopeless.

Maybe a couple days later, I had the thought that it could be because of how I feel when I’m depressed; alone, helpless, hopeless…. So maybe I was shown that to see what helpless actually feels like. Me feeling depressed is a joke compared to how I felt in that trip.

So maybe it’s DMTs form of “I’ll give you something to cry about” type of therapy. Like I could just focus more on good things in my life because they do exist.

There of course could be other interpretations but that’s the one I thought of.

It didn’t do anything to me. Didn’t communicate either. But it knew I was there and was sort of in my head. Like it knew everything about me. I didn’t try to ask it anything because I was just so shocked about being there.

Mostly, the feeling was similar to how one might feel if they woke up in a sealed off cave or someplace where you could never escape but also never die. Like being trapped for eternity but at the same time it was also like being trapped in your mind where your mind is fucked up and you’re not functioning properly. Of course I had the thought that maybe a switch was flipped an I was now schizophrenic and fucked up for good.

At the time, I thought it was the worst possible scenario, but after reading others scary posts, I feel like mine wasn’t as bad as it could have been.

I think I had a related dream later that night. Some monster that had a similar color pattern (various shades of dark grayish purples with black and maybe a little bit of white. That dream is so vague that I’m not even sure if/when it happened.

I’m starting to come around to the idea that maybe dmt just doesn’t agree with me right now, which is ok I guess.

It also kind of sounds like the demiurge, but I'm not very familiar with Gnosticism.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

You ever re-watch media and notice how much certain concepts are denigrated? Like it’s passèe now that like any priest or presentation of Christianity is going to be negative or if they are positive, it’s a very United Church of Christ/ United Church of Canada style Christianity that goes along with the current political consensus.

The most common one is portraying the concept of “God helps those who help themselves” as an excuse to be an asshole. The phrase is very old, not Biblical, but nothing really blasphemous or heretical. It’s literally just saying you have to be ready to help yourself first and not waiting for God to do everything for you. You have to be active rather than passive.

It’s one of those things that I really notice if watching edgy shows from the 90’s and 00’s.

 

[BIG SHOT Autos]

You ever re-watch media and notice how much certain concepts are denigrated?

I noticed that the first question that comes to my mind is what exactly these people have been raised in? I surely didn't know what this is all about up until very recently. Granted, I grew up in a strange household, but so many writers and artists allegedly came from a Christian background. Yet, they have the same strange secular/stereotypical/Gnostic/[insert other misconception] ideas as I did.

I was surprised to learn that Vivziepop allegedly came from Christian household, for example. Hazbin Hotel in its essence is so detached from anything related to the Bible, it reminds me how pre-Internet era Japanese animators were making up bizarre ideas about life in Europe based on random words or scarse images they have seen.

 

[rapecel]

I've never heard a single person who took psychedelics say anything meaningful about their experience. Like they just say that it was really good but they never talk about meaningful insight that actually helped them get into a better position in life.

 

[missnaptime]

sorry that this is off topic, but i wanted to ask seasoned christians about their perspective on this;; one of the weirdest experiences i had that felt disconnected from Godliness was going to a non-denominational church in the USA. they had big screens and sound systems, and it felt like a concert rather than a place of prayer. it had a welcome team and a desk for new church attendees, and a coffee shop in the church. it was wild. it was strange to me, and i wanted to ask why there was such a difference in observant culture, and how they try to reconcile with it, because in my head i don't see how having a coffee shop is theologically correct?

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

I noticed that the first question that comes to my mind is what exactly these people have been raised in? I surely didn't know what this is all about up until very recently. Granted, I grew up in a strange household, but so many writers and artists allegedly came from a Christian background. Yet, they have the same strange secular/stereotypical/Gnostic/[insert other misconception] ideas as I did.

I was surprised to learn that Vivziepop allegedly came from Christian household, for example. Hazbin Hotel in its essence is so detached from anything related to the Bible, it reminds me how pre-Internet era Japanese animators were making up bizarre ideas about life in Europe based on random words or scarse images they have seen.

I think part of it is the inability to reconcile ideals with reality and the other part is seeing contradiction where there isn’t one.

I’d argue for people who grew up in a Christian household it’s likely the frustration of a Christian society not living up to their expectations. A lot of Christian ideas and virtues in popular culture are detached from their origin and have basically turned into beasts of their own.

Protestants weren’t entirely wrong in their criticism of the Church. However, they had the issue of going over board with nothing to anchor them. Anti-Paul people tend to be the most retarded, imo.

 

[Preacher ✝]

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 238 - Those who think they are healthy but have a hidden moral cancer are incurable; the sick who want to be healed have a chance. All denial of guilt keeps people out of the area of love and, by inducing self-righteousness, prevents a cure. The two facts of healing in the physical order are these: A physician cannot heal us unless we put ourselves into his hands, and we will not put ourselves into his hands unless we know that we are sick. In like manner a sinner's awareness of sin is one requisite for his recovery; the other is his longing for God. When we long for God, we do so not as sinners, but as lovers.

 

[BIG SHOT Autos]

I’d argue for people who grew up in a Christian household it’s likely the frustration of a Christian society not living up to their expectations. A lot of Christian ideas and virtues in popular culture are detached from their origin and have basically turned into beasts of their own.

Yeah, it seems to be so. The problem is that they weren't actually taught anything and despite being allegedly raised in a Christian household, they seem to have very secular ideas about faith.

Protestants weren’t entirely wrong in their criticism of the Church. However, they had the issue of going over board with nothing to anchor them. Anti-Paul people tend to be the most retarded, imo.

On some of my recent Bible studies, I was told (although, in a bit nicer way than I will say it right now lmao) that modern Protestant denominations are essentially products of some random uneducated retards picking up the Bible, reading it with zero historical and linguistic context, and thinking of themselves too much despite, like I said, being some random retards that just learned how to read.

The most frustrating part about this to me is all these provocative reactions whenever you try to say that this or that wasn't what was originally implied, or that some texts are not really meant to be taken literally word by word (beginning of Genesis is the biggest example I can think of right now).

"Oh, so you say that the Bible is WRONG???" No, but you just said that you consider your own mistakes to be an indicator that the Bible is wrong. Not very humble of you. Dunning-Kruger peak. No wonder why so many ex-evangelicals talk about their Christian past as if they were in a cult.

Speaking of,

sorry that this is off topic, but i wanted to ask seasoned christians about their perspective on this;; one of the weirdest experiences i had that felt disconnected from Godliness was going to a non-denominational church in the USA. they had big screens and sound systems, and it felt like a concert rather than a place of prayer. it had a welcome team and a desk for new church attendees, and a coffee shop in the church. it was wild. it was strange to me, and i wanted to ask why there was such a difference in observant culture, and how they try to reconcile with it, because in my head i don't see how having a coffee shop is theologically correct?

we seem to have these things here too, and I am inclined to believe they're cults. A friend of mine once said, "if a church doesn't state its denomination, it's a cult" and yes, while denominations themselves aren't biblical and having a specific denomination isn't what is required for a church to be a real church, at this point in historical and cultural development anything that is "non-denominational" seems to be very sus.

Coffee shop made me immediately think of when Jesus drove away merchants from a temple. These "churches" here sell books on business and management and how to essentially turn your church into something profitable. They carefully twist it basically to say that this is to support the ministry and spread good news, so it's not the same as these random merchants from the Bible, "totally different".

 

[Preacher ✝]

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 239 - The worldly are willing to let anyone believe in God if he pleases, but only on condition that a belief in God will mean no more than belief in anything else. They will allow God, provided that God does not matter. But taking God seriously is precisely what makes the saint.

 

[yfes]

sorry that this is off topic, but i wanted to ask seasoned christians about their perspective on this;; one of the weirdest experiences i had that felt disconnected from Godliness was going to a non-denominational church in the USA. they had big screens and sound systems, and it felt like a concert rather than a place of prayer. it had a welcome team and a desk for new church attendees, and a coffee shop in the church. it was wild. it was strange to me, and i wanted to ask why there was such a difference in observant culture, and how they try to reconcile with it, because in my head i don't see how having a coffee shop is theologically correct?

I went to a church like this when I was younger with my mom. The people were very nice and at the time I thought they were genuine Christians I just didn't enjoy the way they styled their church it was large but not quite "mega church" they did have a coffee shop but I think it was free lol

Most non denominational church's I have been to are smaller and basically just pentacostal In doctrine. my grandmas church was one of these and her dragging me there every Sunday as a child is why I am still a Christian today.

 

[Preacher ✝]

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 240 - Wars come from egotism and selfishness. Every macrocosmic or world war has its origin in microcosmic wars going on in millions and millions of individuals.

 

[Twix Eatr]

I've never heard a single person who took psychedelics say anything meaningful about their experience. Like they just say that it was really good but they never talk about meaningful insight that actually helped them get into a better position in life.

I linked to a study that documents how many considered it one of the most profound experience of their lives. How you define "meaningful insight" or "better position in life" is personal, though. For many, it's not so much meaningful insight, but more providing an avenue to think about things differently. For me, I've had thoughts on LSD that reminded me how much others really do for me, how much I truly care about them, and how much more I need to recognize, appreciate, and express these sentiments.

Given how many people report experiencing God itself, I'm sure plenty have made impactful changes after. Even if not a "better position in life," the understanding or appreciation for life itself is often the difference. They're not the panacea to your problems or a fix for everything, much like devoting yourself to Christ isn't a one-size-fits-all fix to everything in your life. You still must put in work along the way. Entities have told users that they're not allowed to come back until they make significant changes in their lives. Those that ignore the warnings often get a hellish trip.

A friend of mine did ayahuasca and considered it lifechanging. I didn't press her on details since she'd never shared them with me before, but she said it was the only thing in her life that'd helped her get over her brother's murder. I also don't think folks unfamiliar with psychedelics understand how different DMT/ayahuasca are from a simple LSD or mushroom trip. I've read more than one account where women relayed that on DMT, they witnessed/experienced their rapes from a birds-eye view or the POV of their abuser. They both said it was incredibly intense, but ultimately described it as healing. Take that however you will.

Just another thing in life to experience, of course. Not everyone has a good time, by the way. For some, being shown that there is another intelligence, and it's much more advanced than us, isn't fun.

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

Any spiritual experience which is of God proves itself as being from God by aligning with and pointing us back to the only certain revelation from God that we have: the Bible. If it tries to draw us away from the Bible, away from his unchanging truth, and instead feeds an obsession with trying to understand some further hidden reality, it is not from God. It is instead from the devil, himself a spiritual being, followed by other spiritual beings that have rejected God, and who take great pleasure in distracting us from Jesus so that we will be taken down with them on the day he returns.

The Gnostics love imagining that they have the 'real', hidden truth, but they have no such thing. Satan loves their delusions of grandeur. God's truth is plainly understood. Experimentation with drugs to find the 'hidden spiritual truth' is just another version of the Gnostic phenomeon.

Contentedness is from the Holy Spirit, and that includes being content with the knowledge of God that we have now, knowing that if we trust in Jesus, we will know him in full and see him face-to-face for all eternity in the future.

 

[Froggy Fresh Sextape]

Coffee shop made me immediately think of when Jesus drove away merchants from a temple. These "churches" here sell books on business and management and how to essentially turn your church into something profitable. They carefully twist it basically to say that this is to support the ministry and spread good news, so it's not the same as these random merchants from the Bible, "totally different".

The business model seems based around trying to get young families into church and getting them to go to your expensive Christian private school. If there aren't enough young families, you create them through your young singles ministry.

Non-denominational churches are the fastest growing churches in the US. There is a lot of demand for them. I'm not really sure why.

 

[Slap47]

The reason for this change is that, on the whole, Protestants engage in a much higher rates of missionary/evangelizing work than Catholics do.

Prosperity Gospel grifters promise them something tangible (money) and have crazy churches full of entertainment. Charismatic Catholicism and Orthodoxy cannot compete.

 

[Preacher ✝]

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 241 - "But there was no room at the inn"; the inn is the gathering place of public opinion; so often public opinion locks its doors to the King.

 

[rapecel]

Prosperity Gospel grifters promise them something tangible (money) and have crazy churches full of entertainment. Charismatic Catholicism and Orthodoxy cannot compete.

They're not becoming Protestants because of a prosperity gospel or anything like that lol. Pentecostalism is not prosperity gospel. Neither is Evangelicalism or Baptist Christianity.

 

[Preacher ✝]

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 242 - A dying man asked a dying man for eternal life; a man without possessions asked a poor man for a Kingdom; a thief at the door of death asked o die like a thief and steal Paradise. One would have thought a saint would have been the first soul purchased over the counter of Calvary by the red coins of Redemption, but in the Divine plan it was a thief who was the escort of the King of Kings into Paradise. If Our Lord had come merely as a teacher, the thief would never have asked for forgiveness. But since the thief's request touched the reason of His coming to earth, namely, to save souls, the thief heard the immediate answer.